RPI 2022 Off-season: Surely, We Deserve Better

[DavidNardolillo]

Troy York (Mid season departure), Emil Ohrvall (went to MIchigan), Evan Tironese (retired from College Hockey) in the RPI Serv List his dad did not have kind things to say about DS, Brady Ferner (UND), Lou Nanne (retired from Hockey), Owen Savory (UMass Lowell), Billy Jerry (LIU and his brother played for DS at Canisius), Corey Babichuk (Vermont). If you said to me "Aspydad, who retires from College Hockey?!", not many but we had two players to do it. Is it not the job of the head coach to instill a culture where players would want to stay? Even those who have a fifth year?? I have no beef with Dave, none. My question goes to the title of this thread, "Surely, we deserve better", do we?

Seth Appert is a good guy, but his race at RPI had been run (averaged 20 losses a season over his 11 years and was almost 70 games under .500). And that last year was ugly; hard for many coaches to survive that one.

For the players that were at RPI before Dave Smith arrived, I think there was going to be turnover and hard times for a group of players that lost 68 games over the previous 3 seasons.

Troy York went to play Division III hockey at UW Superior--good player at that level, but clearly not a case of one that got away for a Division I team.

Emil Ohrvall proved himself to be ineffective everywhere else he went (Michigan, Sacred Heart)--after leaving RPI, he had 7 total points (3 goals) in his remaining collegiate career.

Nanne and Tironese could have transferred somewhere else for a final year of eligibility, but didn't--hard to see how that's an indictment of Coach Smith.

As for the crop of Smith-recruited players, Ferner is on the record that he would have stayed at RPI if the pandemic didn't happen ("If there was no pandemic, I'm for sure there (at RPI)") . That's not Coach Smith's fault. I'd bet a beer that Savory, Babichuk, Ashbrook, and Jerry would say the same thing if asked.

Linden, Leppainen, and Johnson (and perhaps others) certainly had transfer options after the cancelled season, but they stayed. If Coach Smith was a problem for them, I think they would have left last year.

Given what unfolded at RPI during the pandemic relative to other schools, I think it would be incredibly harsh not to provide Coach Smith with an extension of modest length.

[DavidNardolillo]

[/COLOR]

Red- Not sure either is really needed. Previously portrayals on this tread of the derelict condition of the facility appear to be the same that any facility would incur that was shuttered for around a year and a half without the proper precautions being taken. That would first and foremost include laying off the entire facility maintenance staff for a number of months. Just as obvious, it appears no one else kept the facility from reaching searing indoor temperatures in the hot months nor kept it warm enough in the cold months while also failing to drain the plumbing and replacing the water with that no freeze stuff every Tom, Dick and Harry with a seasonal camp uses every September. Best short term solution may very well be to just fix the damage and hope the next stewards of the institute come with at least a modicum of real world common sense that would prevent this from happening again.

As the kids say these days: Tell me you haven't been to Houston Field House in 10 years without saying "I haven't been to Houston Field House in 10 years."

[DavidNardolillo]

Will all be forgiven when she is gone, assuming that Schmidt does not act similarly?

Unfortunately, what was lost in all the criticism of Dr. Jackson is the fact that she ultimately reported to the RPI Board of Trustees, which is almost entirely comprised of RPI alumni. To the extent there is dissatisfaction with the level of investment in the hockey program, it didn't appear that a significant number of the board, let alone a majority, shared that view. More conversation about the status quo needs to be had at that level.

Might be time to try and (re)invigorate a booster club.

[AspyDad]

Seth Appert is a good guy, but his race at RPI had been run (averaged 20 losses a season over his 11 years and was almost 70 games under .500). And that last year was ugly; hard for many coaches to survive that one.

For the players that were at RPI before Dave Smith arrived, I think there was going to be turnover and hard times for a group of players that lost 68 games over the previous 3 seasons.

Troy York went to play Division III hockey at UW Superior--good player at that level, but clearly not a case of one that got away for a Division I team.

Emil Ohrvall proved himself to be ineffective everywhere else he went (Michigan, Sacred Heart)--after leaving RPI, he had 7 total points (3 goals) in his remaining collegiate career.

Nanne and Tironese could have transferred somewhere else for a final year of eligibility, but didn't--hard to see how that's an indictment of Coach Smith.

As for the crop of Smith-recruited players, Ferner is on the record that he would have stayed at RPI if the pandemic didn't happen ("If there was no pandemic, I'm for sure there (at RPI)") . That's not Coach Smith's fault. I'd bet a beer that Savory, Babichuk, Ashbrook, and Jerry would say the same thing if asked.

Linden, Leppainen, and Johnson (and perhaps others) certainly had transfer options after the cancelled season, but they stayed. If Coach Smith was a problem for them, I think they would have left last year.

Given what unfolded at RPI during the pandemic relative to other schools, I think it would be incredibly harsh not to provide Coach Smith with an extension of modest length.

David, I hope this finds you well. DS has had three of his seasons over 20 losses out of four: that's the hard truth. If you're going to bring up that regarding SA you must in all honesty bring it up for Dave. None of us are talking about the epic collapse that occurred at Harvard on Friday night. If that happened with Seth, some would have called for his head on this thread. He's a bad coach, this that. That was inexcusable. I think that lays at DS's feet somewhat. Kudos to the young men in Cherry and White for rebounding the next night. I don't want to adjudicate Seth because I have several times but I will if someone is going to compare him to George Roll and make the baseless claim that the cupboard was bare like someone did on this thread (See Wilson, Burgess, Reilly). With regard to Savory's departure, I will take the beer bet. In fairness to Dave, I think he has an admin and AD who could care less about hockey. As you know, Troyboy and I have screamed this from the rooftops for many moons. To be brutally honest, I don't trust Shirley or Lee to pick the Coach. Also, I found the flipping off of the camera at Harvard distasteful by DS. I don't want to sound Pollyannaish but there is an old military axiom, "Never let the troops see the Colonel crooked in the saddle." Not a great look. Let's hope the new prez can take the sad state of the program and elevate it. Thank you for your thoughtful response to me. I hope you take my response in the same vein. Best regards, JK

[DavidNardolillo]

Thank you for your thoughtful response to me. I hope you take my response in the same vein. Best regards, JK

Always do! Hope to see you and Troyboy soon. The first round is on me, regardless of the outcome of the wager!

[Ralph Baer]

Today is 20 March 2022. There are 195 days until RPI's next game. There are 103 days until RPI has a new president.


This is based upon 1 October 2022 for the start of next season and 1 July 2022 for the end of @#$%^.

[Ralph Baer]

So we lost to the eventual ECAC champion.

What a weird situation in the CCHA championship game where the OT goal was ruled a no-goal after the trophy had been presented and everyone had left. https://www.uscho.com/2022/03/19/min...ate-to-resume/ https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ne...Had-Entire.php

[AspyDad]

Always do! Hope to see you and Troyboy soon. The first round is on me, regardless of the outcome of the wager!

Yessss! Be well and stay safe my friend.

[AspyDad]

Unfortunately, what was lost in all the criticism of Dr. Jackson is the fact that she ultimately reported to the RPI Board of Trustees, which is almost entirely comprised of RPI alumni. To the extent there is dissatisfaction with the level of investment in the hockey program, it didn't appear that a significant number of the board, let alone a majority, shared that view. More conversation about the status quo needs to be had at that level.

Might be time to try and (re)invigorate a booster club.

This is a great point. The same Board that indulged President Jackson is the same that picked her successor. She owns the Board which of course is obvious because she picked them. Here's hoping for some love for the hockey program.

[rpi82]

[QUOTE=AspyDad;n3726272]

Apples and oranges. SA played a much tougher schedule. Dave plays a lot of cup cake games in out of conference games. SA still had a better record.

Then let's do apples-to-apples - league record. Seth's ECAC winning percentage during years 1-4 was .386 and Dave Smith's is .414. Neither is great, but both showed improvement as they recruited players for their style. Seth got an extension and Dave Smith, who has had to deal with far more outside factors yet generated a better record, deserves one too. I believe Seth's was for two years plus the one season left on his original contract (for a total of 7). Giving Dave 3 years to 7 seasons seems right to me.

[AspyDad]

[QUOTE=rpi82;n3726437]

Then let's do apples-to-apples - league record. Seth's ECAC winning percentage during years 1-4 was .386 and Dave Smith's is .414. Neither is great, but both showed improvement as they recruited players for their style. Seth got an extension and Dave Smith, who has had to deal with far more outside factors yet generated a better record, deserves one too. I believe Seth's was for two years plus the one season left on his original contract (for a total of 7). Giving Dave 3 years to 7 seasons seems right to me.

ECAC is much weaker now than it was then. I love the 7 years ask! If you're not going to go big , don't go at all RPI82!

[Ralph Baer]

ECAC is much weaker now than it was then. I love the 7 years ask! If you're not going to go big , don't go at all RPI82!

IMHO, it is weaker now because of the general improvement in college hockey overall and because 2/3 of the teams did not play last season. Through the 19-20 season there was a yearly improvement in RPI's performance. This year deserves an asterisk.

[tony/troy]

Originally posted by DavidNardolillo View Post
Unfortunately, what was lost in all the criticism of Dr. Jackson is the fact that she ultimately reported to the RPI Board of Trustees, which is almost entirely comprised of RPI alumni. To the extent there is dissatisfaction with the level of investment in the hockey program, it didn't appear that a significant number of the board, let alone a majority, shared that view. More conversation about the status quo needs to be had at that level.

Might be time to try and (re)invigorate a booster club.

This is a great point. The same Board that indulged President Jackson is the same that picked her successor. She owns the Board which of course is obvious because she picked them. Here's hoping for some love for the hockey program.

Presto!! The above quotes clearly and concisely illustrate the crux of the problem. They are the hall of fame of posts on this tread regarding this subject matter.

Possibly no clearer instance anywhere of a board who exhibited such a gross, abysmal and cataclysmic failure in carrying out their primary fiduciary responsibilities of oversight and control.

[rpi82]

[QUOTE=AspyDad;n3726465]

ECAC is much weaker now than it was then. I love the 7 years ask! If you're not going to go big , don't go at all RPI82!

IMHO, it is weaker now because of the general improvement in college hockey overall and because 2/3 of the teams did not play last season. Through the 19-20 season there was a yearly improvement in RPI's performance. This year deserves an asterisk.

I agree with Ralph. The ECAC appears to be weaker this season, but largely because of the pandemic which probably affected the ECAC as a league and RPI as a team as much as or more than anyone else in the country. When it hit, Cornell was ranked #1 in the country with Clarkson also in the top half-dozen or so and a little old team from Troy, NY was arguably as hot as anyone in the nation. The year before the ECAC put 3 teams in the tournament and 2 in the final 8, the latter of which is as many as in Seth's first four years combined. People seem to forget that during Seth's first four years the league was still down, having had only a few teams in the final 4 and, IIRC, none in the finals in the 20 years since Harvard won in 1989 and Colgate surprised to finish runner-up in 1990. That was the period before the rise of Union and the New Haven schools that briefly made the league competitive with virtually all comers in the middle of the last decade.

As for the length of a new contract for Dave Smith it was admittedly not some of my best writing. I hope most people recognized that I meant a three year extension to a total of 7 seasons (including the 4 he's already completed), which is comparable to what Seth was given through his second deal. If not, it was my error.

[DrDemento]

This thread is beginning to reach a bit far. First of all, I was told there would be no math! Secondly, I had gained a rather extensive vocabulary over many years of life and academics. But I have been married for a long time now and that Sunday Times crossword puzzle vocabulary has now been reduced to 2 words -"yes dear". So guys, make your point concisely and simply and please, unless Ralph would be kind enough to translate and explain it to me, less Math!
And remember, we have had such poor won loss records now for so many years that it is not comparing apples to oranges - it is all just apple sauce and orange juice or crushed pineapple. My request is simple - just give me 20+ regular season wins, a bye in the first round of the ECAC playoffs, a trip to Lake Placid, and most of all, for us to score at least one goal in an NCAA Tournament game (something I have not seen in 37 years).