UNH Wildcats 2021/2022 - Return of the Champions of October?

[HockeyRef]

Chuck, have agree that we have perhaps lost those old stalwart fans. In addition to being longtime fans they are also not as willing to make the trek to Durham to lose to “them”. We also don’t need a two week break. Perhaps we can find a game that won’t count but keeps us playing.
Students back across the land, and you have to wonder if we will be seeing lots of roster issues going forward.
And say it ain’t true about the rink. Not sure where Watcher heard this. Marty’s last hurrah? I worry most about my seat. Not looking for an isle in front of me during the game.

So yeah, they are going to shrink the rink; Souza says so in that interview. If it really makes a difference in recruiting...then it's worth it. How much a difference remains to be seen. I remain very skeptical. If that's the REAL reason we aren't getting 3 TyK's in each recruiting class, fine. But, I am not hanging my hat on that. Would love to know what most skaters think about the 'big rink'. Doesn't stop the programs who still have the big sheet, right? hmmmmm

[HockeyRef]

Souza said they are shortening our rink this offseason

I meant in preparation for MC...and I do believe they have gone off site in the past to skate on smaller rinks...That said I will never really buy into the fact that our big sheet is a huge deterrent to future skaters. If someone has definite evidence that skaters prefer the smaller rinks, let that person come forward haha. I doubt Greg Carvel makes any excuses for his rink size...(wink)

[Chuck Murray]

So yeah, they are going to shrink the rink; Souza says so in that interview. If it really makes a difference in recruiting...then it's worth it. How much a difference remains to be seen. I remain very skeptical. If that's the REAL reason we aren't getting 3 TyK's in each recruiting class, fine. But, I am not hanging my hat on that. Would love to know what most skaters think about the 'big rink'. Doesn't stop the programs who still have the big sheet, right? hmmmmm

You are right in being skeptical, 'Ref. Remember, not too long ago, it was "We need a better scoreboard etc." and that came to pass, yet the recruiting uptick never really arrived after, did it?

Folks in the education field (not a shot at you BTW 'Ref - besides, you're retired now!) seem to have this endless belief in the power of new and/or "improved" buildings to solve all woes. In the end, if you don't know how to do the job (whether it's in coaching sports or classroom teaching), adjusting a rink (or building a new school) is really just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, isn't it? I guess at this level, at least the capital outlay involved justifies things like keeping fundraisers employed, padding the AD's CV, and keeping tuition from becoming more affordable for the general campus population, but that's a whole other discussion for another day, isn't it?

[Drew S.]

Souza said they are shortening our rink this offseason

I hope this doesn’t happen. It would make for a really bad fan experience with some weird gap between the seats and the ice.

[HockeyRef]

You are right in being skeptical, 'Ref. Remember, not too long ago, it was "We need a better scoreboard etc." and that came to pass, yet the recruiting uptick never really arrived after, did it?

Folks in the education field (not a shot at you BTW 'Ref - besides, you're retired now!) seem to have this endless belief in the power of new and/or "improved" buildings to solve all woes. In the end, if you don't know how to do the job (whether it's in coaching sports or classroom teaching), adjusting a rink (or building a new school) is really just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, isn't it? I guess at this level, at least the capital outlay involved justifies things like keeping fundraisers employed, padding the AD's CV, and keeping tuition from becoming more affordable for the general campus population, but that's a whole other discussion for another day, isn't it?

Isn't the absolute bottom line always about how many butts in the seats? Will the work done (and the rest of the 'Whitt could use a face lift...hell, put up the pictures from 2018 to now would be a start haha I'll even buy the frames) really justify the means? I was cool about the 'tron; but never thought the old one was a 'deterrent' to any recruit. There's so many positives about skating at UNH regardless of what they do, if you ask me. Now, if player lounges, better lockerooms are the missing element, I guess I'm ok with those improvements. So WHAT if PC, BU, BC have state of the art facilities for these things? If we are that antiquated then do something about it.

These things cost a boat load of $$$ and as you say, throwing $$$ at something doesn't always make it 'better'. I have always been a big fan of 'Gone with the Wind'. When Mammy chastises Rhett and Scarlett that they are still being mules in 'horse harness' regardless of how fancy they dress or where they live (nothing against mules; they are cool animals) this might apply. When they do this work, as a fan, I expect to see outcomes, and I don't mean 10 years from now, if ya catch my drift...

Not to dig at the coaching staff. And I want our team to have the best places to workout, and skate in. I wish I had a ton of $$ to throw at it myself (and to the field hockey/lacrosse/gymnastics teams while I'm at it. Oh, and, Kingsbury Hall) if I truly knew it would be the 'answer'. I just don't think that's the big reason for any supposed recruiting woes. Not an insider, and, if I'm wrong , just put up the proof to show me otherwise.

Come one, come all to UNH...there's lots of loyal fans to cheer you on to greatness!!

















She said we could give ourselves airs and get ourselves all rigged up and we were like race horses and we were just mules in horse harness and we didn't fool anybody.

[Dan]

The ice size is not the problem. For years UNH sold the Olympic Sheet as a benefit, while other schools sold it as a detriment - back then UNH had the better sales people. Teams on larger sheets are winning and recruiting all over college hockey. Why is the negative recruiting only applicable/harmful to UNH?

If they can open up access to empty space underneath the press box side of the arena, and add student-athlete amenities, that is significantly more worthy of expenditure.

Nice to see UNH winning games, but we've seen a few runs under Souza before. Will it stick? Will it translate to better recruiting?

[Darius]

…I wish I had a ton of $$ to throw at it myself (and to the field hockey/lacrosse/gymnastics teams while I'm at it. Oh, and, Kingsbury Hall)…

Kingsbury is a palace compared to 15 - 20 years ago before the renovation. :-)

[Chuck Murray]

The ice size is not the problem. For years UNH sold the Olympic Sheet as a benefit, while other schools sold it as a detriment - back then UNH had the better sales people. Teams on larger sheets are winning and recruiting all over college hockey. Why is the negative recruiting only applicable/harmful to UNH?

If they can open up access to empty space underneath the press box side of the arena, and add student-athlete amenities, that is significantly more worthy of expenditure.

Nice to see UNH winning games, but we've seen a few runs under Souza before. Will it stick? Will it translate to better recruiting?

I literally agree with almost everything in Dan's post ... but I'm not sure I can remember a 5 game winning streak or even a 6 game unbeaten/points streak under MS7. Anyone know for sure on those?

I'm also all in on the idea of better on-ice results driving better recruiting results, but even if that progress is glacial, as long as MS7 and his crew are doing a better job of coaching their guys up, then that can gradually lift their program, too. UML never gets included among the elite recruiting destinations, but Coach Bazin has always seemed to get the most out of his teams regardless. On the other hand, Luce seems to have an "in" at a level of recruiting Bazin doesn't, yet Bazin's program consistently outpaces UConn. And the bright lights of night life in and around Lowell isn't exactly a recruiting asset for Bazin either. It's not hard to deduce who is the better hockey coach ...

If Coach Umile could find recruiting "sweet spots" to allow UNH to compete at a level with the likes of legends like Walsh, York and Parker, there's no reason a guy like MS7 can't do the same when faced with a nearing-retirement York, newbies at BU and UMaine, and guys like Leaman and Carvel who aren't comparable (yet, if ever) with the Walshes and Parkers of HE Past. Fine-tune the recruiting message, develop a style that complements the message, and/or hire new messengers if needed.

Screwing around with the size of the ice surface is just such a lame *** excuse, drives me nuts ...

[After the Whistle]

Did I miss something in the last 9 months? After the 2020/21 season we were told that they had to replace the RefrigeratIon unit ASAP. And while we are at it reduce the rink size. Now there is nothing about the refrigeration only the ice. The Whitt is getting older but no less comfortable for fans. No bad or uncomfortable seating and great site lines. It is basically UML or BU without the bells and whistles. Both are great but I don’t need it. Spend it on workout and locker space.

[Felger]

I literally agree with almost everything in Dan's post ... but I'm not sure I can remember a 5 game winning streak or even a 6 game unbeaten/points streak under MS7. Anyone know for sure on those?

I'm also all in on the idea of better on-ice results driving better recruiting results, but even if that progress is glacial, as long as MS7 and his crew are doing a better job of coaching their guys up, then that can gradually lift their program, too. UML never gets included among the elite recruiting destinations, but Coach Bazin has always seemed to get the most out of his teams regardless. On the other hand, Luce seems to have an "in" at a level of recruiting Bazin doesn't, yet Bazin's program consistently outpaces UConn. And the bright lights of night life in and around Lowell isn't exactly a recruiting asset for Bazin either. It's not hard to deduce who is the better hockey coach ...

If Coach Umile could find recruiting "sweet spots" to allow UNH to compete at a level with the likes of legends like Walsh, York and Parker, there's no reason a guy like MS7 can't do the same when faced with a nearing-retirement York, newbies at BU and UMaine, and guys like Leaman and Carvel who aren't comparable (yet, if ever) with the Walshes and Parkers of HE Past. Fine-tune the recruiting message, develop a style that complements the message, and/or hire new messengers if needed.

Screwing around with the size of the ice surface is just such a lame *** excuse, drives me nuts ...

Souza had I think a 5 AND a 6 game unbeaten streak his "first*" season. I believe that somewhere in internet land there is a post from Chuck Murray using "Mike Souza" and "Spencer Penrose" is the same sentence.

[wildcatdc]

Okay, just a few points….

The refrigeration system IS in fact being replaced. Given that this required a major deconstruction of the rink to get it done, there was no better time than now to also reduce the width of the rink to 90’. Whether anyone likes it or not, it IS one of the things that has been coming up in the recruiting process. Interestingly, it is brought up less by the recruits themselves and more by their agents/handlers. It is happening, so we can either bury our head in the sand and puff out our chests and say that a real recruiter should be able to recruit past that issue or we solve the issue at an opportune time that refrigeration system replacement presents.

Two last things on rink reduction. It is NOT being paid for through donations, but rather through the normal capital budgeting process. Secondly, there will not be a row inserted in front of the current first row, but there will be a gap. The cost of resizing the bowl was out of the question.

After the Whistle, you bring up a GREAT point on the guts of the Whitt, which is a second very large recruiting obstacle for the men’s and women’s programs. Aside from a minor locker room upgrade a long while ago, there has been no material improvement made to the areas that impact the players a TON on a day-to-day basis (locker rooms, physiotherapy, training, cardio, weight rooms, film rooms, player’s lounges/study, food service, etc.) since the Whitt opened 26 years ago. (As a reminder, Snively was 29 years old when hockey vacated for the Whitt.). Having seen what our HEA and other competition have done in the last 5 years around the guts of their facilities, it is an extremely stark contrast and is more likely to be a turn-off to recruits than to the handlers. This is something being looked at right now and is a much larger undertaking than the refrigeration and rink reduction project.

Again, this is not an either/or situation. All of these things need to be addressed to stay competitive. To position this as a “get better recruiters and it’s all fixed” argument is silly.

EDIT: I see now that HR and Dan also brought up the guts of the Whitt issue as well - sorry for missing that.

[HockeyRef]

Okay, just a few points….

The refrigeration system IS in fact being replaced. Given that this required a major deconstruction of the rink to get it done, there was no better time than now to also reduce the width of the rink to 90’. Whether anyone likes it or not, it IS one of the things that has been coming up recruiting process. Interestingly, it is brought up less by the recruits themselves and more by their agents/handlers. It is happening, so we can either bury our head in the sand and puff out our chests and say that a real recruiter should be able to recruit past that issue or we solve the issue at an opportune time that refrigeration system replacement presents.

Two last things on rink reduction. It is NOT being paid for through donations, but rather through the normal capital budgeting process. Secondly, there will not be a row inserted in front of the current first row, but there will be a gap. The cost of resizing the bowl was out of the question.

After the Whistle, you bring up a GREAT point on the guts of the Whitt, which is a second very large recruiting obstacle for the men’s and women’s programs. Aside from a minor locker room upgrade a long while ago, there has been no material improvement made to the areas that impact the players a TON on a day-to-day basis (locker rooms, physiotherapy, training, cardio, weight rooms, film rooms, player’s lounges/study, food service, etc.) since the Whitt opened 26 years ago. (As a reminder, Snively was 29 years old when hockey vacated for the Whitt.). Having seen what our HEA and other competition have done in the last 5 years around the guts of their facilities, it is an extremely stark contrast and is more likely to be a turn-off to recruits than to the handlers. This is something being looked at right now and is a much larger undertaking than the refrigeration and rink reduction project.

Again, this is not an either/or situation. All of these things need to be addressed to stay competitive. To position this as a “get better recruiters and it’s all fixed” argument is silly.

EDIT: I see now that HR and Dan also brought up the guts of the Whitt issue as well - sorry for missing that.

Thanks for piping in on all of this DC was hoping you would. Yeah...these things are necessary as age dies a number on a facility. Us fans hope that there will be a surge in success but just aren't sold that it's the be all amd end all. That said things are curving abit upwards...the 'Cats work hard and have been a blast to watch. Never doubted my decision to follow....

But gee do we really have to wait 2 weeks?

[RENCEB]

There are 9 games left on the RS schedule, and in six of those (based on recent form), UNH should be clear favorites. ..

Whoa, pump the brakes on your blue colored wagon there Mr. Murray. UNH should be the clear favorite in 6 of those games (based on recent form)? Wildcats swept one of the worst BC teams in recent memory and took 4 points from UConn. Merrimack swept ranked PC and #9/#10 UML. So tell me again "based on recent form" why UNH should be the clear favorite? I have a feeling that Friday night game will not be "Whittemore South". I was not a believer in Borek from the jump, but perhaps he's proving me wrong. Should be very entertaining.

[Dan]

Daniel Winnik will skate for Canada in the Olympics next month - I'd guess he's one guy who would give a lot of credit to the Whitt's ice size for his skating development and the career he's carved out as a result. For advisors/agents its never been about rink size, its always about pro-development. If you're unable to recruit or develop pro-prospects I can see why one would rather discuss rink size as the culprit than look inward or re-evaluate (despite the fact that pro-prospects are skating on larger rinks or playing for schools with worse facilities all over college hockey), but Ill leave it at that...

I have no energy or interest in diving into another recruiting conversation and speaking to wants versus needs, opportunity versus obstacles at every university or the recruiting skills of coaches at UNH or elsewhere. Count me among the many who's interest in UNH has waned significantly in recent seasons - mainly the last two. That's why I haven't been around much to discuss a recent win streak or 'the hockey' this season...

I'll be all in again when UNH returns to its winning ways OR is bad enough to force a change in leadership. The mediocrity that comes with hovering around .500, finishing in the bottom five and losing road QF series is both detrimental to the program and mind-numbing for a fan base. I never thought it would happen to me, but right now I'm teetering - and if you're at risk of losing fans like myself, and others of that ilk, than there are significant and real problems that need to be addressed before we worry about the superficial...

[wildcatdc]

For advisors/agents its never been about rink size, its always about pro-development.

Dan, you know I have a ton of respect for you, and I appreciate the broader points you made in your whole post.

That stated, not only is the snippet I copied above demonstrably false, it is to some extent intrinsically conflicted. To say that the subject is “never” brought up is simply untrue, and in fact, it IS brought up in the context of pro development. There is a desire for top-tier talent to be on ice that roughly resembles the NHL. Hardly superficial.

It may be priority 15 in a list of 15 priorities on a decision-maker’s list. My point is simply if we can rid ourselves of a potential detractor, ANY detractor, at any point, let’s do it. The refrigeration project gives us that opportunity. To argue against that would be like saying you want to run a marathon in 70’s era polyester sweats and Nike “Waffles” because it’s all about leg strength, and you’d rather hamstring yourself with old tech to obstinately prove that point.

As HR says, it’s certainly not a be-all/end-all, but I’d rather eliminate any potential negative variable during a rebuild, especially if the opportunity presents itself.