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Wisconsin Hockey 21-22: Your Guess Is As Good As Mine

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  • Timothy A
    replied
    Originally posted by WiscTJK View Post
    I'm preparing myself for the fact that TG will likely be back, due to the buyout costs of his contract. And if that happens, he may well have to replace both assistants, just like they did to Eaves, to shorten the contract / buyout by one year (he won't get the auto 1 year extension this year). I don't know how they get around that unless some alumni and / or former player(s) ponies up the buyout cash. It didn't work for Eaves, and I suspect it won't work for TG either. The only way they can justify the buyout is if the attendance figures / concessions are as bad as I believe they are. I suspect they are in the red by a large amount. Hockey was a revenue generator in the past.
    The school as SO much money from FB and MBB that they can easily afford the buyout (and on top know they will increase revenue with the change). Maybe TG would do the honorable thing and forgo the buyout for his beloved university and just quit when they call him in to fire him.

    I can't handle another season of this, no one can and there is zero evidence that next season will be any better.

    Leave a comment:


  • WiscTJK
    replied
    I'm preparing myself for the fact that TG will likely be back, due to the buyout costs of his contract. And if that happens, he may well have to replace both assistants, just like they did to Eaves, to shorten the contract / buyout by one year (he won't get the auto 1 year extension this year). I don't know how they get around that unless some alumni and / or former player(s) ponies up the buyout cash. It didn't work for Eaves, and I suspect it won't work for TG either. The only way they can justify the buyout is if the attendance figures / concessions are as bad as I believe they are. I suspect they are in the red by a large amount. Hockey was a revenue generator in the past.

    Leave a comment:


  • The 7th Defenseman
    replied
    [QUOTE=Timothy A;n3719355]

    There is ZERO hope for improvement under this staff. Cant it get worse? Yes it can. How many guys did not or have not develop or actually regressed? Instead of asking that, let's ask how many met or exceeded expectations? Baker? Ceulemanns? Peltonen? Inamoto? Moe? Thoughts?

    Here's my take on who exceeded expectations vs underperformed/regressed on this year's team:

    Exceeded Expectations:
    Moe, Peltonen, Corson
    I could see where you could argue Corson came in as a first rounder and simply did what 1st rounders do (i.e. he would have done as least as well under pretty much any coach). That's probably true. Nonetheless I'll give TG credit for giving Corson the green light to do what he's clearly very gifted at doing (handling the puck). Given how offensively impotent this team was, I think it was the right call to let Corson try to create some offense. I also like that they put him as quarterback of the 1st PP unit (not sure they had a lot of other options, but I could see a coach saying they wanted someone with more experience or something back there). TG tried to put Corson in positions to maximize his offensive talent and by the end of the year he was the team's leading scorer despite being a freshman and a defenseman (I realize the bar for being this team's scoring leader was very low, but still ...).

    Underperformed/Regressed:
    Sam, Max, Josh, Ryder, Cameron
    Josh, as a Super Senior and NHL draft pick, had the team's worst +/- at -24 (the next worse was -19). He only scored 1 goal despite being on the PP (he scored 2 goals last year).
    Max scored 7 points this year, the previous four years at Bowling Green he scored 24, 25, 43, and 30 points.
    Last year Sam scored 6 goals, this year 3 despite being a year older and being put in more goal-scoring settings (e.g. PP). He had 26 goals in his last season in the USHL.
    Ryder, a 4th rounder, got 4 points this year; he had 5 points as a freshman.
    Cameron's decline from last year to this has been stunning.

    I realize NHL draft status is not a perfect measure for college potential, but I think it's pretty good indicator that a player has talent that can be developed with adequate coaching.

    Stepping back and looking at the totality of TG's coaching tenure here, I guess he does a decent job at letting elite offensive talent (Corson, Cole, Dylan, etc.) do their thing offensively (I'm not sure this is technically "coaching," more like getting out of the way). Unfortunately, he seems to struggle with: coaching players to play within a system, coaching d-zone hockey, coaching goalies, coaching PK, developing non-elite talent, putting non-elite offensive talent in positions to be successful, making in-season/in-game corrections, and motivating players. He also seems to struggle with offensive line combinations. While he's not afraid to switch up lines, I'm not recalling a time (except maybe when Cole and TPB were on a line together??) when he put together a line that "clicked" (i.e. the players made each other better; the whole was greater than the sum-of-its-parts). Maybe this last one isn't a fair critique.


    Leave a comment:


  • GoBucky18
    replied
    Based on TM's post game video comments, I got the feeling he would be stunned if Granato was back next year.

    Judging by the way they played, against their top rival, and were absolutely embarrassed on the ice, I would be too. This team is just flat out bad. Yes they had injuries on the d side, but every team goes thru that. They went 1-13 on the road. That's a culmination of terrible coaching and player development.

    I dont think there was anything wrong with being rosy eyed when they hired TG, Oz and DG. Most people were. But even though I was optimistic, I never underatood the whole thing being about how TG was taling classes to finish his degree, then it was about him coaching the Olympic team, then it was about all the NHL draft picks he was bringing in. What has it gotten us? I will tell you: 2 winning seasons, 1 NCAA birth, 1 regular season Big10 champ, 4 losing seasons, no titles, terrible player development, terrible coaching, and no sustained success. In 6 years. Thank you, but I've seen enough.

    In my mind the Big10 is more difficult than the WCHA was, top to bottom. However that shouldnt preclude WI from bringing in top talent and developing that talent, and competing almost every year for a regular season champ, tourney champ, and having a legit shot at making a run in the NCAAs each year.

    Recruiting kids from WI isnt the issue, most NCAA freshman go to USHL for1 or 2 years prior anyway to develop, regardless of where they are from. Until the univ really cares about hockey it's not going to be pretty. Only prgm coach Id go with now is Rohlik from OSU. He has a track record of developing guys and has shown to hace the mentality of getting guys to stick around 3 and 4 yrs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Timothy A
    replied
    Originally posted by WiscTJK View Post
    I haven’t thought about it at all to be honest. I think coaching needs to change for things to really improve.

    They will likely improve some just because they can’t get much worse than this year.
    There is ZERO hope for improvement under this staff. Cant it get worse? Yes it can. How many guys did not or have not develop or actually regressed? Instead of asking that, let's ask how many met or exceeded expectations? Baker? Ceulemanns? Peltonen? Inamoto? Moe? Thoughts?

    The class is an average B16 class, mostly draftable guys who you will get some productive years out of with the right coaches. Charlie Stramel (F), Tyson Jugnauth (D), Jack Horbach (F), Boston Buckberger (D), and Ben Dexheimer (D). Technically Grannan is supposed to come too. He is 8-8-3 with 3.08 (13th in the USHL) / .897 (10th in the USHL) numbers for Sue Falls. He's not popping out as the answer in G.

    I would not be shocked if Moe and Roe ended up in the transfer portal. TG's abuse of goaltending is by far the worse I have ever seen. WI is the school were goalies come to die. Yep. Who ever would have thought those words would get typed? He yanked more goalies this year than all the other seasons combined in history of the program. And whoever the goalie coach is needs to get canned too. Can all the coaches.

    Usually I'm Mr. optimistic, rah rah go team go, right? I hope UND just kicks the crap of UW this weekend. This nightmare needs to end and that is more likely with 2 more loses. No false hope, no light at the end of the tunnel. Just end it now.

    Leave a comment:


  • WiscTJK
    replied
    Originally posted by The 7th Defenseman View Post
    I should also add that I'm genuinely curious to hear how the rest of you view next year's roster vs this year's.
    I haven’t thought about it at all to be honest. I think coaching needs to change for things to really improve.

    They will likely improve some just because they can’t get much worse than this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Timothy A
    replied
    Originally posted by The 7th Defenseman View Post
    I should also add that I'm genuinely curious to hear how the rest of you view next year's roster vs this year's.
    Don't worry, I'll get my thoughts down.....

    Leave a comment:


  • The 7th Defenseman
    replied
    I should also add that I'm genuinely curious to hear how the rest of you view next year's roster vs this year's.

    Leave a comment:


  • The 7th Defenseman
    replied
    Picking up my unsolicited assessment of whether or not next year's team will be any better ...

    Offense: If Roman, Brock, and Jack take advantage of their free year of eligibility I think next year's group of forwards will be better than this year's. The three Super Seniors, coupled with incoming freshman Charlie, and the development of guys like Carson, Zach, Liam, and Mattie should more than compensate for the loss of Tarek and Max.

    Tarek - His eligibility is up. This will be a huge loss I think. He's my second favorite Badger (behind Jack). I loved how he played the game. Team-first guy, high effort, some nice speed, and a bit of skill. I also respect that he played college hockey into his early 30's ;-)

    Max Johnson - His eligibility is up. He's like the Kyle Hayton of forward transfers. Just didn't produce at UW. Not sure why. I'm inclined to blame coaching, but maybe that's not fair.

    Roman - He's a senior who could come back on his COVID free year I think. The question is will the league take him back. He's the Ogie Oglethorpe of Big 10 hockey ("This young man has had a very trying rookie season. What with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada, and that countries refusal to accept him. Well, I guess that's more than most 21 years olds could handle." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLBy_A-53io). I have mixed feelings about Roman. I respect that he plays hard and physical on a team where that is the exception and not the rule. Some of the major penalties probably did cost the Badgers a few games (the 5 min penalty on Saturday was a terrible call, just terrible) and that was getting old. I hate that he would flop from time-to-time (flopping is the reason I find soccer unwatchable). I do think him coming back for another year would be a net benefit for the Badgers. He was also one of the most snakebitten players I can remember watching. If he could get back to his Freshman goal scoring, while limiting his game misconducts, that would be a huge boost for this team next year.

    Brock - I think it's neat that he likes to sit in that same spot as his brother (lower left slot) and try to snipe some goals. I wish he was as successful as his brother was in that spot. I'm not sure if he's coming back for his free COVID year. If he does I suspect he's about at his ceiling for productivity, so we can expect another year like this year from him.

    Jack - He's my guy. I love his speed. More specifically I love that he uses his speed to forecheck and backcheck and not just when the puck is on his stick. Can you imagine how good Linus would have been last year if he had used his speed the way Jack did? I hope he comes back for his free year. He gets a little better each year. It would be nice if he had a bit more of a scorer's touch and higher hockey IQ, but if he did, we probably wouldn't of had him for four years at UW.

    Dominick - I think we'll get a fifth year out of him. He's a good ham-n-egger. I like him on the PK and fourth line for next year.

    Sam - Another guy who is just not developing. He's a NHL draft pick with elite athleticism and a hard shot, but he looks worse this year than last year. I don't have high expectations for him next year.

    Mattie - Started coming on offensively a bit over the course of this year. Plays a very gentle, offense-only game, which TG seems to really value, so he should continue to do fine in this system. Has he won a puck battle yet as a Badger or blocked a shot? I think he's the most natural scorer on the team and that will continue into next season.

    Ryder - Yet another guy who plateaued as a freshman and consistently seems to perform below his talent level/draft status. Guys like this don't tend to "figure things out" under TG, so I'm expecting another year next year like this year.

    Carson B - This could be my guy next year if Jack leaves. He's got size, tenacity, and some scoring ability. For the forwards, I'm most excited to see what he can do next year. I think he could be special.

    Zach - AKA Jack Jr. If Carson doesn't step-up next year, Zach will be my guy. Good speed and effort. Definitely got better over the course of this season, which makes me hopeful he's a player on the upswing.

    Liam M - I thought he flashed a bit during the season. Nice burst and offensive awareness. Maybe he could develop into a solid secondary scorer next year??

    Brayden M and Caden B - So if I'm understanding things correctly for next year the Badgers have 6 seniors this year (two have to leave and 4 could leave) but only 2 freshman forwards coming in. If a few additional seniors leave, Brayden and Caden will be every-night-skaters. I hope they are ready for that.

    Owen L - Anyone know how he is doing? I hope he's able to come back next year. Solid special teams player and we might not go entire periods without winning a draw if he's at center.

    In summary - I think next year's team will be about the same as this year's from a win/loss perspective. I do think next year's team will allow more goals (due to a dip in goaltending and the loss of Tyler), but will also score more goals (partially because the bar is set really low, but also because I think the defense will be more productive offensively, Charlie should score at least as much as Max, and the returning forwards seem to have some unrealized offensive ability). I also think that TG, as head coach, puts a very low ceiling on this team.

    I apologize again for another lengthy post. I think I'm using this as therapy or something to work through the trauma of the season ;-)

    Leave a comment:


  • The 7th Defenseman
    replied
    During the second period of Friday's game the TV announcer mentioned that TG said he thought this season was a blip and that he was looking forward to next season and the development of his players and incoming freshman. I don't blame him for saying that; he might even think that, but is there any possible way he's right? I don't think so.

    Here's my take on next year's team (because I don't want to think about this year's team anymore) and whether or not it will be better than this year's team - this is assuming TG is back as head coach.

    Case for next year's team being better:
    - statistically speaking you can't get much worse than this year's team (e.g. it's nearly mathematically impossible to score fewer than 0 goals in a weekend series against your rivals while giving up a baker's dozen; you can't do much worse than 1 road win over the coarse of an entire regular season, etc.), so I guess next year's team could be better statistically?.

    Case for next year's team being worse:
    - coaching. Preaching to the choir on this one, but this variable alone will keep next year's team from being good.

    - players. Will the players be better next year? Here's my unqualified, arm-chair-quarterback assessment of players for next year. I'm assuming no unexpected departures (although I suspect a few players will jump ship via the transfer portal or go pro - I don't mean NHL pro, I'm thinking more Estonia D-league "pro").

    Incoming Class:
    I'm also going to give myself a bit of a pass on the incoming freshman class. I don't follow junior hockey or know much about college scouting (I miss Chuck) beyond what Todd M. writes and some occasional internet posts/articles. I think these five guys are coming in on NLIs Charlie Stramel (F), Tyson Jugnauth (D), Jack Horbach (F), Boston Buckberger (D), and Ben Dexheimer (D). According to Google, Boston and Tyson are projected as 4th-6th round draft picks in 2022. In an article from Todd M. Jack was compared to Roman and Charlie was described as a 2023 early first round draft pick. I'm excited to see Charlie (hopefully he's healthy and not too young to make a difference). Seems like a solid class I guess. Does it seem like a class that will turn around the fortunes of Badger hockey in one year? No. Remember year one with the dream class of Dylan, Alex, and Cole? It was a train wreck. If they couldn't make the Badgers a contender in their first year, I don't think this class will either.

    Goalies: next year's goalies will be worse.
    Jared was not super consistent this year, but I wouldn't want to be a goalie on a TG-coached squad. I think he was one of the few bright spots on this team (on a side note - how much do you think Jared is kicking himself for leaving the Gophers right now - that could have been him hosting the BTEN trophy). Unfortunately, goalies tend to get worse the longer TG is their coach. If Jared is improves next year he would be bucking the trend of previous goalies under TG.

    Cameron is a shell of his Freshman-self and I have not seen anything from this coaching squad to suggest they can build him back up. I kind of think he will transfer out if Jared stays. Just speculation.

    Defensemen: I actually think next year's group will be about the same as this year's group. I think they will be a bit worse defensively (because Tyler is leaving) but better offensively (with the ongoing development of Corson and Daniel).

    Tyler - He's used up his eligibility. This is a huge loss. Tyler was one of the very few players on this team willing to do the little things to win a game. I once saw him block a shot, go the bench in excruciating pain, and then the very next shift not even flinch to drop down and block another shot. And he was doing this in the third period of a game they were losing, playing for a team that was going nowhere. Oddly enough he's one of the few defensemen, during Oz's second stint with UW, who I think plays defense like I came to expect from dmen under Eaves and Oz. Not sure how Oz lost his magic? Did Eaves deserve more credit for the excellent defenseman play during their championship runs?

    Josh E - He's also used up his eligibility. Josh was my least favorite defenseman. I don't think he improved at all since his freshman year. I don't think this will be a big loss. Just my opinion.

    Anthony - He really flashed offensive talent last year. I remember that little fella would catch my eye from time-to-time making some really slick stick handling moves. It seems this year was a step back for him as far as trying to be offensive and skating with the puck; although he might be a bit better defensively this year. I wonder if the coaches told him to reign-it-in offensively this year? If so, it seems like a strange coaching decision given their offensive shortcomings. It would be cool if he could develop into a solid offensive-defenseman next year; not sure that will happen.

    Corson - I really like Corson. His dangling is a lot of fun to watch. He clearly has some special talent. It would be awesome if he developed like Dylan did from his first to second year and he starts to take over entire shifts when he is on the ice. A bit of a liability on defense at times, hopefully he addresses that and doesn't go the K'Andre route. I have high hopes for him next year.

    Daniel - I also like Daniel a lot. Surprisingly good skater and stick handler for someone his size. He had some terrible moments in the d-zone this year, but I'm hopeful he will develop nicely next year.

    Jesper - For a coaching staff that rarely seems to actually develop/maximize player potential/ability, I thought Jesper made a nice jump from last year to this year. I assume he only played so much because of Mike V's injury? Kudos to him for stepping-up if that was the case.

    Luke L - Not much ice time. Showed some offensive skill. A few embarrassing moments in the d-zone (but what Badger didn't). I'm not sure what his potential is for next year. I have a special place in my heart for the 7th defenseman on a rooster, we'll see if he ends up their again ;-)

    Mike V - Sounds like he had season ending hip-surgery. Does anyone know if he's coming back or how he's doing? A healthy Mike would help this team out a lot next year - an upgrade for Josh E.

    Jake Martin - Why didn't he play more this year? Was it injury or ability that kept him out of the lineup?

    Shay D - Did he enter the transfer portal, couldn't find a team to take him, so just stayed with the Badgers?

    Leave a comment:


  • digitalbooya
    replied
    Originally posted by Timothy A View Post

    IF they can TG, why dump the tickets?
    University should have to earn season ticket holders back. If they do decent next year I'll come down for at least a few series.

    Leave a comment:


  • The 7th Defenseman
    replied
    This weekend went worse than I thought it would. Not much to add beyond what has already been posted. Credit to you guys who saw this coming three or four years ago. At the end of last year I was wondering if that season had been a fluke (a product of a once-in-a-lifetime recruiting class) or a possible sign that TG and the coaching staff were starting to figure things out. I was hoping for the latter, but clearly last year was an aberration. These last two games were a highlight of "Badger hockey" under TG - poor effort, poor execution, shockingly bad d-zone lapses (e.g. four of five Badgers following the puck along the boards like a bunch of Mites while a Gopher is wide open in front of the net), poor goaltending, pulling a goalie that does absolutely nothing to alter the momentum of the game, ineffective special teams, etc.

    Coming into this weekend I thought TG would get another year. I still think that will be the case, but keeping him is going to be a tough decision to justify.

    jn sxabgxfr4

    Leave a comment:


  • solovsfett
    replied
    And one more rant. Stop recruiting kids from Wisconsin. Just STOP. Wisconsin high school hockey is terrible. We produce maybe 1 D-1 caliber player a year. So at most keep it to 4 or less in state players on the roster at any given time.

    Leave a comment:


  • solovsfett
    replied
    Originally posted by Timothy A View Post

    IF they can TG, why dump the tickets?
    Because there is nothing from the athletic dept that shows me they want a winning men’s hockey team much less a national title threat.

    EDIT: they also don’t appear to even look at hockey until we make noise…and giving up great seats after 37 years is the biggest statement we can make.

    Leave a comment:


  • Timothy A
    replied
    Originally posted by solovsfett View Post
    Right on MCR! Truth bombs. We’re dumping our season tickets after 37 years. 18 rows up center ice lower bowl. Haven’t been to a game since 2018.

    I’m done. And McIntosh is like Alvarez another football guy who doesn’t know Jack about hockey. I guarantee he couldn’t list off the years Wisconsin won national titles. That’s assuming he even knows they have 6.
    IF they can TG, why dump the tickets?

    Leave a comment:

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