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Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Split-N View Post
    How does ASU football subsidize anything if it loses almost $3 million? In the bigger picture, why aren't P5 powerhouses (most of them, anyway) that generate tens--even hundreds--of millions on football not put money into their institutions' general funds instead of taking money from them to cover operating deficits?



    Wow! So where to start? Maybe with executives from the big time shoe companies tripping over each other paying out under the table "incentives" in their unending quest to "broker" athletes to various P5 institutions. Or maybe the pending Federal investigations into same. Need more?

    https://consortiumnews.com/2017/12/0...ege-athletics/




    And as for social damage: https://www.mtv.com/news/2547224/sne...ulture-deaths/



    Finally, corruption goes well beyond bribery. Let's just leave it at that.
    Nothing much has happened except for lots of accusations & maybe 3 convictions out of 100 -200 schools. That suggests there is not much corruption going on.

    I know what you are saying about shoes & equipment street crime but the huge majority of blame & responsibility lies with those committing the crimes. Otherwise we better call management of Honda corrupt because their cars get stolen the most.

    I agree there is some spots of corruption here & there but I don't see it everywhere all the time as I believe you are implying. Maybe you wish to change the rules of funding & that is a valid point. There is some, not much, corruption the current system, based on evidence, too much scrutiny of what goes on.
    Last edited by Sol Diablo; 05-28-2020, 08:17 AM.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by JohnsonsJerseys View Post
      As a sales manager once said: "Yes, we're losing a little on each sale, but we'll make up those loses with more volume..."

      The number is getting bigger each year and as we all know: "Bigger is Better."
      That is a common funny saying about volume & profit. & you probably already know this, however, for others reading this thread,it somewhat depends on the type of business for it to hold true. For instance, airplane flights have fixed & variable costs. After a certain number of seats are sold the fixed coats are covered. Additional seat sales become profitable. Same thing occurs in mining, refining, chemicals, many manufacturing,& maybe pro hockey game attendance?

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      • #93
        Re: Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

        Originally posted by Sol Diablo View Post
        Nothing much has happened except for lots of accusations & maybe 3 convictions out of 100 -200 schools. That suggests there is not much corruption going on.

        I know what you are saying about shoes & equipment street crime but the huge majority of blame & responsibility lies with those committing the crimes. Otherwise we better call management of Honda corrupt because their cars get stolen the most.

        I agree there is some spots of corruption here & there but I don't see it everywhere all the time as I believe you are implying. Maybe you wish to change the rules of funding & that is a valid point. There is some, not much, corruption the current system, based on evidence, too much scrutiny of what goes on.
        It's not the shoes and equipment. It's the exclusionary pricing and the marketing pitches that say you're not cool if you aren't wearing this stuff. Bear in mind that prices might be a tad more affordable if not for the fact that (IMO) the outlandish amounts being paid to athlete and coach endorsers are baked into the retail prices. And how about the fact that many (tho not all) P5 football powers that generate tens of millions in revenue end up taking additional money from the general funds rather than putting some of that revenue into the general funds?

        With respect, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the depth and extent of P5 corruption.
        "Through the years, we ever will acclaim........"

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        • #94
          Originally posted by JohnsonsJerseys View Post
          As a sales manager once said: "Yes, we're losing a little on each sale, but we'll make up those loses with more volume..."

          The number is getting bigger each year and as we all know: "Bigger is Better."
          Gonna guess jerseys can’t follow how that may work out
          a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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          • #95
            Re: Pandemic and budget strain: Will any schools drop hockey?

            Originally posted by Sol Diablo View Post
            Nothing much has happened except for lots of accusations & maybe 3 convictions out of 100 -200 schools. That suggests there is not much corruption going on.

            I know what you are saying about shoes & equipment street crime but the huge majority of blame & responsibility lies with those committing the crimes. Otherwise we better call management of Honda corrupt because their cars get stolen the most.

            I agree there is some spots of corruption here & there but I don't see it everywhere all the time as I believe you are implying. Maybe you wish to change the rules of funding & that is a valid point. There is some, not much, corruption the current system, based on evidence, too much scrutiny of what goes on.
            You need to watch The Scheme if you think there isn't much corruption going on. That movie was going to blast out during the NCAA tournament, and ended up getting lost in the wash of canceled sports and the pandemic.

            The primary reason that you aren't seeing a lot of convictions is two-fold. First, at least one of the FBI people involved in the investigation turned up dirty himself, which made it somewhat problematic to prosecute.

            Second, the "corruption" is not so much violations of the law as it is corruption of college athletics.

            If I give a kid $100,000 to play hockey at UND, I don't think anyone has committed a crime. However, supposedly I have broken innumerable NCAA rules. NCAA rules are not laws. You don't go to jail for violating them, you get kicked out of NCAA sanctioned athletics.

            So, when shoe companies funnel millions to kids, through coaches and handlers, it is a clear violation of whatever NCAA rules we think supposedly govern athletics, but it's less clear exactly what laws have been broken. Usually it has to do with a public employee (coach) soliciting or accepting bribes. But in those instances, the coaches themselves need to be profiting, I think.
            That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Split-N View Post
              It's not the shoes and equipment. It's the exclusionary pricing and the marketing pitches that say you're not cool if you aren't wearing this stuff. Bear in mind that prices might be a tad more affordable if not for the fact that (IMO) the outlandish amounts being paid to athlete and coach endorsers are baked into the retail prices. And how about the fact that many (tho not all) P5 football powers that generate tens of millions in revenue end up taking additional money from the general funds rather than putting some of that revenue into the general funds?

              With respect, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the depth and extent of P5 corruption.
              You brought up some good points, and fair enough to agree to disagree, with all respect. Let's hope hockey returns for '20-'21!

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              • #97
                Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                You need to watch The Scheme if you think there isn't much corruption going on. That movie was going to blast out during the NCAA tournament, and ended up getting lost in the wash of canceled sports and the pandemic.

                The primary reason that you aren't seeing a lot of convictions is two-fold. First, at least one of the FBI people involved in the investigation turned up dirty himself, which made it somewhat problematic to prosecute.

                Second, the "corruption" is not so much violations of the law as it is corruption of college athletics.

                If I give a kid $100,000 to play hockey at UND, I don't think anyone has committed a crime. However, supposedly I have broken innumerable NCAA rules. NCAA rules are not laws. You don't go to jail for violating them, you get kicked out of NCAA sanctioned athletics.

                So, when shoe companies funnel millions to kids, through coaches and handlers, it is a clear violation of whatever NCAA rules we think supposedly govern athletics, but it's less clear exactly what laws have been broken. Usually it has to do with a public employee (coach) soliciting or accepting bribes. But in those instances, the coaches themselves need to be profiting, I think.
                You've got some good points. I'll have to try to find that documentary. Thanks!

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                • #98
                  Stanford (with a 26 billion dollar endowment.. the 4th largest of all universities) cut 11 varsity sports today.

                  I’d guess others cuts will follow at other universities as budgets get strained.

                  i wonder if any hockey programs are in danger?

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by ericredaxe View Post
                    Stanford (with a 26 billion dollar endowment.. the 4th largest of all universities) cut 11 varsity sports today.

                    I’d guess others cuts will follow at other universities as budgets get strained.

                    i wonder if any hockey programs are in danger?
                    They are moving those Olympics type sports to club status, for now.

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                    • Dartmouth follows up Stanford by cutting 5 varsity sports.... and these are schools with some of the biggest endowments there are.

                      Gotta imagine we are going to see some thing happen to at least a couple of hockey programs.

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                      • I’m no doctor, but it’s 2020 and everyone plays one in the Internet, so here goes...

                        I know lots of skaters prefer metal cages to Itech (or, I guess Bauer) clear face shields, but I’m surprised (to my limited knowledge) that clear face shields have not been mandated for skaters for the ‘20-‘21 season. Seems like a simple way to keep some bodily fluids out of each other’s faces.

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                        • Originally posted by ericredaxe View Post
                          Dartmouth follows up Stanford by cutting 5 varsity sports.... and these are schools with some of the biggest endowments there are.
                          That must be so disappointing for the athletes impacted. Just wanted to add that news outlets reported that Dartmouth was also looking to achieve some "admissions flexibility" by cutting the number of recruited athletes on campus. Clearly finances were also in play--golf looks like it was pulled down by the permanent closure of the money-losing, school-owned country club--but it appears not to be the only reason. Swimming has been one of those sneaky cuts over the years at schools, and neither Dartmouth swim team appears to have ever won an Ivy League championship.
                          Last edited by DavidNardolillo; 08-03-2020, 06:04 PM.

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                          • UConn suspends football for this season.

                            They were going to be independent this year after leaving the AAC.

                            Due to the hemorrhaging of money from football, I’d had them pegged as the non-Alaska/Alabama school most likely to drop hockey. Hard to say if this saves them enough money to avoid that fate for now.
                            If you want to be a BADGER, just come along with me

                            BRING BACK PAT RICHTER!!!


                            At his graduation ceremony from the U of Minnesota, my cousin got a keychain. When asked what UW gave her for graduation, my sister said, "A degree from a University that matters."

                            Canned music is a pathetic waste of your time.

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                            • Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
                              UConn suspends football for this season.

                              They were going to be independent this year after leaving the AAC.

                              Due to the hemorrhaging of money from football, I’d had them pegged as the non-Alaska/Alabama school most likely to drop hockey. Hard to say if this saves them enough money to avoid that fate for now.
                              UConn cut men's cross country, women's rowing, men's swimming & diving and men's tennis this summer and according to them, it will save 10 million dollars with staff reductions also.

                              https://uconnhuskies.com/news/2020/6...athletics.aspx
                              Yes I am the former member known as Zlax45

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                              • Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
                                UConn suspends football for this season.

                                They were going to be independent this year after leaving the AAC.

                                Due to the hemorrhaging of money from football, I’d had them pegged as the non-Alaska/Alabama school most likely to drop hockey. Hard to say if this saves them enough money to avoid that fate for now.
                                It looks to me as though the decision was driven less by the pandemic than the fact that UConn, as an independent, would not have enough opponents to make for a viable season. The FBS conferences are eliminating non-conference games so they're suddenly out in the cold. The comment regarding hemorrhaging money from football, however, is spot-on. The football god is insatiable.
                                "Through the years, we ever will acclaim........"

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