UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter :D

[HockeyRef]

Question, will Ty Taylor have to sit out a year given he's not a Senior looking for a post grad op? Or, he has the credits to graduate early, like BvR did?

[Dan]

He likely gets a free transfer per the NCAAs COVID response, plus pending legislation that will allow one time transfers anyway...

Wonder if he ends up with his brother at Clarkson. Their FR goalie was solid, but they have a recent history of taking struggling transfers and turning them into legit frontline goalies...

[Dan]

If White, Reid and Bourque make it to campus is UNH still a hockey power? I think the answer just might be yes...

[HockeyRef]

He likely gets a free transfer per the NCAAs COVID response, plus pending legislation that will allow one time transfers anyway...

Wonder if he ends up with his brother at Clarkson. Their FR goalie was solid, but they have a recent history of taking struggling transfers and turning them into legit frontline goalies...

I hope he is able to have a great Senior year wherever he ends up....best wishes TyT!

[Scott]

My thoughts on possible scenarios:

1. If Robinson is indeed coming back as a fifth-year senior, it will be with the understanding that he will be the go-to goalie for next year's (hopefully) full 34-game regular season. That's a lot on one goalie's shoulders.

2. Souza and Co. already have eyes on someone to fill Ty's spot if he does transfer (but wouldn't we know of this by now, unless they're waiting for some "big announcement"?)

3. Both Robinson and Taylor are gone, and Jeremy Forman becomes the default starting goalie next season with one or two walk-on's-to-be-named later. Insert scary emoji here.


I sure would like to understand how a "master recruiter" doesn't develop the talent that he gets....or how an NHL-drafted goalie somehow struggled to regularly make the starting lineup of a middlin' D-1 hockey team.....

[HockeyRef]

My thoughts on possible scenarios:

1. If Robinson is indeed coming back as a fifth-year senior, it will be with the understanding that he will be the go-to goalie for next year's (hopefully) full 34-game regular season. That's a lot on one goalie's shoulders.

2. Souza and Co. already have eyes on someone to fill Ty's spot if he does transfer (but wouldn't we know of this by now, unless they're waiting for some "big announcement"?)

3. Both Robinson and Taylor are gone, and Jeremy Forman becomes the default starting goalie next season with one or two walk-on's-to-be-named later. Insert scary emoji here.


I sure would like to understand how a "master recruiter" doesn't develop the talent that he gets....or how an NHL-drafted goalie somehow struggled to regularly make the starting lineup of a middlin' D-1 hockey team.....

All intriguing points Scott...esp the last one. Surely there are going to be goalies looking for a new home but what concerns me is your point about why a player with Taylor's credentials wouldn't be utilized to their full potential???

As if UNH fans didn't have enough to keep them up at night....sigh.

[NCAA watcher]

My thoughts on possible scenarios:3. Both Robinson and Taylor are gone, and Jeremy Forman becomes the default starting goalie next season with one or two walk-on's-to-be-named later. Insert scary emoji here.

Only if Souza also plans to immolate himself at center ice to start the year.

2. Souza and Co. already have eyes on someone to fill Ty's spot if he does transfer (but wouldn't we know of this by now, unless they're waiting for some "big announcement"?)

Graduate transfers who can't be announced yet. Or a Euro. But with only a limited window with Baliotti and Muszalik now lined up for 2022 and 2023, that's unlikely.

I sure would like to understand how a "master recruiter" doesn't develop the talent that he gets....or how an NHL-drafted goalie somehow struggled to regularly make the starting lineup of a middlin' D-1 hockey team.....

Ask Nate Leaman, who took Jake Kucharski a couple of spots ahead of Taylor in the 2018 draft, and he never saw the ice there, and barely at AIC this year. Or Red Gendron, who has Matt Thiesen taken in the same round, but barely seeing ice for them (maybe that makes the opposite point?) Or Jared Moe, picked the round before, who is a backup for Minn. Or Logan Neaton, picked in 2019 who doesn't play for Lowell.

(And Devon Levi didn't see the ice for Northeastern this year )

[Scott]

Ask Nate Leaman, who took Jake Kucharski a couple of spots ahead of Taylor in the 2018 draft, and he never saw the ice there, and barely at AIC this year. Or Red Gendron, who has Matt Thiesen taken in the same round, but barely seeing ice for them (maybe that makes the opposite point?) Or Jared Moe, picked the round before, who is a backup for Minn. Or Logan Neaton, picked in 2019 who doesn't play for Lowell.

(And Devon Levi didn't see the ice for Northeastern this year )

So what you're saying is perhaps these goalies are overrated before they arrive on campus? Ty did show flashes of brillance last season when he was given the opportunity to start. I would have thought that with this year's abbreviated season, Souza would have considered platooning both goalies. No sure as to how Ty somehow seemed to be in Souza's "doghouse".

[Chuck Murray]

Umile's talent drain was from players who never made it on campus. There was the standard academic issues (Yandle, Matt White), the non-standard academic issues (Cam Reid), and the jilted at the alter (Ryan Bourque, Dan Kolomatis). The final blow was when his base, the fellow-Italians, turned on him (Vecchione, Laleggia).

It's just not cricket when paisan don't honor their blood oaths ... or so I've heard, anyway.

[Chuck Murray]

So what you're saying is perhaps these goalies are overrated before they arrive on campus? Ty did show flashes of brillance last season when he was given the opportunity to start. I would have thought that with this year's abbreviated season, Souza would have considered platooning both goalies. No sure as to how Ty somehow seemed to be in Souza's "doghouse".

Maybe something happened, or maybe someone said something? It's not like Robinson was playing lights out, any more than Tirone was prohibitively so good that Robinson couldn't catch a break. But then again, like when Robinson would routinely spit the bit whenever Tirone left the door of opportunity ajar for him ... Taylor did the same when Robinson's poor play gave TT an opportunity. So maybe the kid just blew it, plain and simple? I know my narrative was often that MS7 was leaning heavily on Robinson, perhaps coaching like his job depended upon it, but whereas Taylor would come up with some decent showings as a soph, his junior year was pretty much a total waste.

Plus his lack of customized UNH helmet markings, I guess that actually ended up being a tell after all?

TT was an MS7 recruit, there's no reason to think MS7 wouldn't have given him a chance if he earned/deserved it, so I guess I'll err on the side of it being a recruiting mistake. It just never worked out, for the player or the program. It's happened before, it'll happen again. Too bad, we move on ...

[HockeyRef]

'Watcher you're not feeling it that Mike R is going to return? Seems unlikely...good points about goalies who come in, get no playing time...seems pretty typical in your examples.

[Chuck Murray]

'Watcher you're not feeling it that Mike R is going to return? Seems unlikely...good points about goalies who come in, get no playing time...seems pretty typical in your examples.

My read on 'Watcher's post about some of the other goalies who were coming out at the same time as TT is that, maybe it was a relatively weak recruiting class for goalies that year? If these guys were contemporaries and being measured and evaluated against their competition - i.e. each other - then if none of them was a standout, then maybe they all were just not that good?

Stuff like that can happen ... sometimes there's a slew of slick playmakers, sometimes there's a shortage of something else, you just never know. The best solution to the situation is to have a coaching staff that can further develop these recruits once they arrive on campus. But if you don't have that, and your recruits do not arrive as the finished product, then there's only so much upside you're going to be able to develop. At that point, you're pretty much reduced to running a very tight system and plugging in role players to play to their established strengths, and hope for the best.

I would observe that during the Umile era, there was definitely an offensive system in place, and it was a blessing at times (regular season) and a curse as well (playoffs), when an opponent could focus, scout and break down weaknesses to exploit them. Don't get me wrong, Umile had a lot of talented offensive players over the years, and I think even his detractors would have to concede they usually developed pretty well while on campus. Where Umile's best teams tended to fall down was if they were forced out of their "A" game, then sometimes Plan B either didn't exist OR wasn't particularly effective. I think as time went on, Umile became a more rounded coach, but as he figured that piece out, the incoming talent that McCloskey had produced at such a routinely high level began to slip when others became responsible for the recruiting. Had McCloskey been satisfied with the recruiting piece for a few more years, I'm pretty sure UNH would have eventually gotten over the hump.

Looking at the MS7 era to date ... there is no apparent signature UNH style or identity yet. And that's a problem. It's an obstacle that likely confuses the most talented recruits, and the high-flying offensive players who used to consider UNH see a static undefined system now in place, and then they look at BC, UMass, BU or even Northeastern, and they see a fit. And if you're a bigger physical forward, you probably look to Lowell or Providence (or even BU again).

Developing a recruiting identity for your program may be the biggest challenge MS7 still faces ...

[NCAA watcher]

My read on 'Watcher's post about some of the other goalies who were coming out at the same time as TT is that, maybe it was a relatively weak recruiting class for goalies that year? If these guys were contemporaries and being measured and evaluated against their competition - i.e. each other - then if none of them was a standout, then maybe they all were just not that good?

Sorry for not being clear. I was pointing out that being a 7th round NHL pick as a goalie means you are big (6'3 or larger) and had some success or promise in juniors. Nothing more. So much of it is opportunity and then confidence, and it's easy to lose it if you get stuck behind another guy. Mike Robinson was a 3rd round NHL pick who couldn't get playing time in the USHL and when he did, played poorly. Given the opportunity at UNH, he was able to make it as an above average goalie. I don't see it as a coaching issue. It happens, as the jump from juniors to college is large and my point was to show that it is littered with "failed" goalies, even NHL picks. But that's not the coach's fault... it just happens.

Taylor didn't quite grab the reigns when he was given a shot. That's not to say that if he goes elsewhere and is given a spot he can't make use of his tools.

Given where UNH is with a smaller than 4 year gap before Baliotti and Muszelik, they'll probably be looking for another unhappy goalie stuck behind someone looking for a fresh start for 2 years.

[Chuck Murray]

Sorry for not being clear. I was pointing out that being a 7th round NHL pick as a goalie means you are big (6'3 or larger) and had some success or promise in juniors. Nothing more. So much of it is opportunity and then confidence, and it's easy to lose it if you get stuck behind another guy. Mike Robinson was a 3rd round NHL pick who couldn't get playing time in the USHL and when he did, played poorly. Given the opportunity at UNH, he was able to make it as an above average goalie. I don't see it as a coaching issue. It happens, as the jump from juniors to college is large and my point was to show that it is littered with "failed" goalies, even NHL picks. But that's not the coach's fault... it just happens.

Thanks for clarifying, 'Watcher. Yes, the deeper in the draft you go, the more speculative the picks get. I guess we found out over these last three seasons just how much of a reach TT turned out to be for his drafting organization. That he came back to UNH this season even may seem somewhat surprising, although that may have had to do with a lack of perceived alternatives, with transferring within a dwindling number of participating D-1 schools being challenging enough, and delays with some of the sub-NHL pro leagues as well? He couldn't wait to leave by the end.

Going back to Robinson ... I guess I've been defaulting to the "above average goalie" narrative without questioning it. But looking back at Robinson's numbers (save percentage primarily) ... I'm not sure he was ever that "above average goalie" at UNH, except maybe for his soph season (.915 with 3 shutouts). The last two seasons at UNH, Robinson posted .899 and .881, with only 2 shutouts (last season) in almost 50 games started combined as a junior and senior. That MS7 wouldn't give TT a better shot at the job these last two seasons only seems to reinforce that things between MS7 and TT may have broken irretrievably (sp?) sometime after his frosh season? Speculation, sure, but something doesn't add up ...

Taylor didn't quite grab the reigns when he was given a shot. That's not to say that if he goes elsewhere and is given a spot he can't make use of his tools.

I would agree 100%, just as it had been with Robinson under Tirone, any time TT got a shot (albeit relatively few times), he never really did anything convincing. But it must be pointed out - and not to drag up a heated debate from a few years ago, but it's relevant here for comparison's sake - that Tirone was a superior D-1 goalie to Robinson, with all four seasons above .900, and with 10 career shutouts. Yet Robinson got more chances when Tirone was off, than TT got when Robby was off. Which (to me at least) points to something in the MS7-Taylor relationship going south at some point, last season or this.

Stats from Tirone, Robinson, and a "comp" UNH goalie often cited by Tirone's detractors:

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...php?pid=170347

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...php?pid=182215

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/....php?pid=99532

Dan, I'm honestly not trolling you, but I was truly surprised to see Robinson's stats for this year (and last, to a lesser degree). Not good ...

Given where UNH is with a smaller than 4 year gap before Baliotti and Muszelik, they'll probably be looking for another unhappy goalie stuck behind someone looking for a fresh start for 2 years.

What an absolutely crappy recruiting strategy that would be, except (of course) it's sadly likely the reality of the situation as well. Beggars can't be choosers, etc. Remember when Drew Commesso and Tim Stutzle were on their way to Durham ... ???

[Snively65]

Thanks for clarifying, 'Watcher. Yes, the deeper in the draft you go, the more speculative the picks get. I guess we found out over these last three seasons just how much of a reach TT turned out to be for his drafting organization. That he came back to UNH this season even may seem somewhat surprising, although that may have had to do with a lack of perceived alternatives, with transferring within a dwindling number of participating D-1 schools being challenging enough, and delays with some of the sub-NHL pro leagues as well? He couldn't wait to leave by the end.

Going back to Robinson ... I guess I've been defaulting to the "above average goalie" narrative without questioning it. But looking back at Robinson's numbers (save percentage primarily) ... I'm not sure he was ever that "above average goalie" at UNH, except maybe for his soph season (.915 with 3 shutouts). The last two seasons at UNH, Robinson posted .899 and .881, with only 2 shutouts (last season) in almost 50 games started combined as a junior and senior. That MS7 wouldn't give TT a better shot at the job these last two seasons only seems to reinforce that things between MS7 and TT may have broken irretrievably (sp?) sometime after his frosh season? Speculation, sure, but something doesn't add up ...



I would agree 100%, just as it had been with Robinson under Tirone, any time TT got a shot (albeit relatively few times), he never really did anything convincing. But it must be pointed out - and not to drag up a heated debate from a few years ago, but it's relevant here for comparison's sake - that Tirone was a superior D-1 goalie to Robinson, with all four seasons above .900, and with 10 career shutouts. Yet Robinson got more chances when Tirone was off, than TT got when Robby was off. Which (to me at least) points to something in the MS7-Taylor relationship going south at some point, last season or this.

Stats from Tirone, Robinson, and a "comp" UNH goalie often cited by Tirone's detractors:

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...php?pid=170347

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...php?pid=182215

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/....php?pid=99532

Dan, I'm honestly not trolling you, but I was truly surprised to see Robinson's stats for this year (and last, to a lesser degree). Not good ...



What an absolutely crappy recruiting strategy that would be, except (of course) it's sadly likely the reality of the situation as well. Beggars can't be choosers, etc. Remember when Drew Commesso and Tim Stutzle were on their way to Durham ... ???

I forgot that Mike Ayers' SV% dropped to 0.899 his last season.


https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/....php?pid=51199