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UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter :D

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  • #16
    Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

    Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    Well, its not just casual fans. My belief is that Umile has zero clue about recruiting, and by ignorance, developed a narcissitic belief (as you describe with fans) that players show up, and "great coaches" like him were what made the teams great.
    It is FAR more common than people would ever wish to admit, for NCAA coaches to view recruiting as a nuisance and, at best, a necessary evil. I cringe every time I here some semblance of the, "I'd rather win with hard-working two stars than lazy five stars" argument. This makes the assumption that talented kids can't also be hard workers - but in reality its just BS often spouted by coaches to lazy to make the recruiting effort or lacking in the sales ability to actually land top players. Umile was hardly unusual in his indifference and Souza is hardly unusual in his struggles...

    As far as recruiting goes - even your worst college coach may be a likeable and charismatic personality. Unfortunately, recruiting is relative and the only thing that matters is how your likeability, passion and sales ability stack up against the recruiting competition NOT the general public.

    I agree with you that recruiting has been a disaster. Souza has simply not gotten the job done with any level of consistency the position requires. I don't buy that he was hamstrung in his first three years - he was the head coach in waiting, recruiting players who would never play for his predecessor and had plenty of space available to bring in talent. He either failed to attract the necessary talent (on his own) or didn't sense the urgency to upgrade the recruiting coffers. He simply hasn't shown the ability to acquire the players needed to move UNH back towards the top of Hockey East...

    Outside of Luke Reid (another late decommit) who in this most recent flurry of activity is a true difference maker, capable of lifting the talent around him and, as a result, the program to old heights? To me, the recent activity seems more like grabbing a bunch of guys to increase your odds that one of them suddenly turns out to be a GUY...

    There are certainly lessons to be learned in recruiting, but I'm not sure how much a tiger can change his stripes. One either embraces and enjoys the commitment and the challenge or does not. One either has the passion, communication skills and intensity to impress upon top recruits or they don't. If there is a lesson for Souza to learn, IMO, it is recognizing his inability to front a recruiting process and making the hard decision to find someone who can. Who knows if he's willing to do that at this point - egos in coaching are VERY real. Even if they wanted to make this move, I'm sure they would loudly lament their ability to adequately pay the going rate for a top recruiter in today's game - which is why you don't throw away money on frivolous avoidances of accountability like rink size...

    Neither NU or UMass 'got it going' right away in terms of wins and losses - but both heavily announced their presence on the recruiting trail almost immediately. Carvel completely changed the perception around UMass and its future, kept Makar in the pipeline and went to work adding talent way beyond what anyone thought UMass was capable of attracting. Madigan, as you noted, hired Keefe and that immediately translated into Roy, Aston-Reese, Sikura, Szmatula and the Stevens brothers...

    If Souza hasn't been able to make that shift in culture, perception and energy in five seasons, than I see no reason why he would be capable of doing it now. It's a very real possibility that they've missed their window...

    ---

    As for this season, it was the best talent and depth of roster that UNH has had in a long time - thanks to some key Borek holdovers, and the handful of above average talent Souza has actually landed. They wasted it completely. One of the easier things to do in coaching is take a bad team to mediocre. Its exponentially harder to make any further progress. Its the business 80-20 rule, where twenty percent of the effort, ability and production can push you toward the mean while the smaller steps to actual success take SO MUCH more. I have a hard time seeing legitimate progress or reason for optimism and I wonder if those who do are more hopeful than convinced...

    Next year, with Reid and (likely) Ardanaz being FR - I think we will realize what we had in Gildon and Wyse this season. Maass will go from one of three top D to THE guy and UNH will need BIG jumps from their other three regulars, who will be thrust into the limelight that comes with increased responsibility and role next season. If they don't make those jumps the defense will take a step back. Simply not being Gildon will no longer cover up the flaws/mistakes in their games.

    UNH's scoring will take a massive hit if Crookshank leaves. He is the one true impact forward they have - capable of making plays on his own and creating offense out of any situation. The rest of the offensive talent would be better suited as secondary top-six pieces, much like Souza himself (a hardworking, solidly-skilled player who capable of a big year if skating with players like Krog/Haydar/Kelleher/Poturalski - but only capable of so much impact when carrying a line). With no Gildon and no Crookshank, its hard to imagine UNH's production getting any better. They NEED Angus back, but who could blame him if he thought he'd better develop elsewhere...

    There are other 'key' players at UNH that I have concerns about wanting to return. The cat is out of the bag with BVR. There is one school that has had a lot of success with transfer's at a key position and suddenly has a connection to a UNH student-athlete. I'm sure a lot of others might look at one UNH upperclassman, in particular, and envision skating him alongside two of their better forwards and offering a lot of production.

    At first glance, I'd predict UNH is back under .500 next season - and they're at a major crossroads where things could actually get a lot worse if they don't take significant steps forward in critical areas like recruiting. Next year will be year six of Souza, not two or three - at least in my eyes - if UNH cares about its hockey program than significant progress needs to be made and perception around the program and on the trail need to shift dramatically. If that doesn't happen, hard decisions need to be made. This is not your standard give the coach 4-5 years scenario, he's had his time to build his roster - its time to deliver...
    Last edited by Dan; 03-08-2020, 01:41 PM.
    Live Free or Die!!
    Miami University '03

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    • #17
      Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

      Thank goodness the season is over. We went out on a sort of kind of high note. The prize for playoff qualifying was a 2 of 3 series at Conte against a more motivated Eagles team. Our not getting blown out run against them would have been in serious jeopardy.

      I got my UML/BU wish.
      I will not be out cheered in my own building.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

        There is so much I would like to discuss about UNH's season and about the future. I will take it one thing at a time over the next few days. For now, I would like to discuss something that is not so emotional. What players may leave early? There has been talk about Gildon and a little bit about Crookshank. How about Maass? Do you think the Washington Capitals want him to play four full years of college hockey and lose his NHL rights the following summer? I have not researched the Washington Capitals' prospect pool of right-handed defensemen, but I think they would like to have Maass in their system. I feel he could develop into a similar player as Matt Niskanen. There is no guarantee Maass will be back next season. Crookshank's NHL rights are owned by the Ottawa Senators. Ottawa has traded away so many older players the last year and a half for young players, prospects and draft picks that I think they have a log jam of left-handed wingers. So why sign with them? If I was representing Crookshank I would be asking Ottawa to trade his rights to another team or plan on staying in college for four years and become a free agent the following summer. At this point, I feel it would be smarter for Maass to leave than Crookshank.

        Who knows!
        Last edited by Ray Dorn; 03-08-2020, 02:40 PM.

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        • #19
          Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

          Maass is an exceptional student, who likely realizes that his future would be better served getting his degree, rather than getting an "early jump" on riding around the ECHL/AHL. That's why he chose us in the first place, because we offered a spot as a true freshman rather than riding the buses in the USHL.
          He has a better chance of being Brad Flaishans than Brett Pesce.
          The Umile legacy:
          14-15 8th place,
          15-16 10th place
          16-17 10th place
          17-18 11th place
          18-19 8th place
          19-20 9th place
          20-21 10th place
          21-22 9th place

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Felger View Post
            While I am sorry for your pain, this is precisely the reason that some teams SHOULD be eliminated from the playoffs at the end of the regular season. Allowing all teams into the postseason tourney renders much of the regular season meaningless. Sure there are byes,and home ice, but no real consequences for an underachieving program. If anything the everybody gets a medal mindset masks deficiencies. If a program doesn't take a critical look at itself and is not realistic about realities its is only deceiving itself. UNH finished in the top eight only one time in the past five seasons, yet until this year always managed to participate in the postseason. Its one thing to miss the playoffs one time in 32 tries, but its another thing to miss four times in five seasons. Perhaps if they had, it would have created a sense of urgency that seems lacking and the program would be better off for it.
            +1!!!
            "Now Progress Takes Away What Forever Took To Find" Dave Matthews Band, The Dreaming Tree

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            • #21
              Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

              Just finished Dan’s remarks, and must agree with most of them which is no surprise....my only addition are 2 points.....when I was on the Friends Board, and then after, much closer to the program than I am now, there was SO much BS that Umile (and McCloskey) had to deal with off the ice! This is probably true for all D-1 programs, but if you know anything about the NH State House and the politics of NH, it’s amazing the program even got the Whittemore approved, which let’s be honest, saved our program! When UNH Alum have to pay for the ice time for the school to make money (regardless of how little) to have an Alumni game......you get the gist!
              Secondly, UNH has 2 hockey alum VP in clubs in the NHL......do you think they have an idea of what is out there for talent? Have they been approached? Just saying.....as you all know, I believe that until we find an AD committed to the hockey programs in deeds, and not words, we’ll be in a pickle🥅🏒

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

                Originally posted by Dan View Post
                It is FAR more common than people would ever wish to admit, for NCAA coaches to view recruiting as a nuisance and, at best, a necessary evil. I cringe every time I here some semblance of the, "I'd rather win with hard-working two stars than lazy five stars" argument. This makes the assumption that talented kids can't also be hard workers - but in reality its just BS often spouted by coaches to lazy to make the recruiting effort or lacking in the sales ability to actually land top players. Umile was hardly unusual in his indifference and Souza is hardly unusual in his struggles...
                The thing that I find more concerning is this is also how some corporations think. There is a general belief that the people (the talent) is fungible and the system is what makes the world go around. Instead it is really about getting talent and putting that talent into a position to succeed while still meeting the overall needs of the team or organization.

                I see lots of parallels between creative/inventive talent and hockey scoring talent. Additionally keeping either talent aligned with the needs of the overall team.

                P.S. Dan can you split you long posts up a little...
                "Now Progress Takes Away What Forever Took To Find" Dave Matthews Band, The Dreaming Tree

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

                  Originally posted by Felger View Post
                  While I am sorry for your pain, this is precisely the reason that some teams SHOULD be eliminated from the playoffs at the end of the regular season. Allowing all teams into the postseason tourney renders much of the regular season meaningless. Sure there are byes,and home ice, but no real consequences for an underachieving program. If anything the everybody gets a medal mindset masks deficiencies. If a program doesn't take a critical look at itself and is not realistic about realities its is only deceiving itself. UNH finished in the top eight only one time in the past five seasons, yet until this year always managed to participate in the postseason. Its one thing to miss the playoffs one time in 32 tries, but its another thing to miss four times in five seasons. Perhaps if they had, it would have created a sense of urgency that seems lacking and the program would be better off for it.
                  Bingo. We have Yahtzee.
                  Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                  Montreal Expos Forever ...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

                    Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
                    Maass is an exceptional student, who likely realizes that his future would be better served getting his degree, rather than getting an "early jump" on riding around the ECHL/AHL. That's why he chose us in the first place, because we offered a spot as a true freshman rather than riding the buses in the USHL.
                    He has a better chance of being Brad Flaishans than Brett Pesce.
                    Again, spot on. Maass going anywhere early would be a big surprise.

                    I also don't see an NHL future for him, and unlike others, he probably is smart enough to realize this.
                    Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                    Montreal Expos Forever ...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

                      https://tbdailynews.com/failed-hocke...rom-bleachers/

                      You guys remember Brian Pouliot?
                      The Umile legacy:
                      14-15 8th place,
                      15-16 10th place
                      16-17 10th place
                      17-18 11th place
                      18-19 8th place
                      19-20 9th place
                      20-21 10th place
                      21-22 9th place

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

                        Originally posted by Felger View Post
                        While I am sorry for your pain, this is precisely the reason that some teams SHOULD be eliminated from the playoffs at the end of the regular season. Allowing all teams into the postseason tourney renders much of the regular season meaningless. Sure there are byes,and home ice, but no real consequences for an underachieving program. If anything the everybody gets a medal mindset masks deficiencies. If a program doesn't take a critical look at itself and is not realistic about realities its is only deceiving itself. UNH finished in the top eight only one time in the past five seasons, yet until this year always managed to participate in the postseason. Its one thing to miss the playoffs one time in 32 tries, but its another thing to miss four times in five seasons. Perhaps if they had, it would have created a sense of urgency that seems lacking and the program would be better off for it.
                        Agreed. Two win Vermont should not have an opportunity to win your league title and NCAA auto-bid...

                        If anything I'd reduce it further - 7 get in, #1 gets a bye making the regular season title meaningful, first round on campus as per.
                        "...On To Victory, Forever Blue & White..."
                        Men's Hockey

                        ECAC Regular Season: 1 • ECAC Tournament: 1 • Hockey East Regular Season: 8 • Hockey East Tournament: 2
                        NCAA Appearances: 22 • Frozen Fours: 7 • 1999 & 2003 NCAA Runner Up

                        Women's Hockey
                        EAIAW Champions: 4 • ECAC Regular Season: 3 • ECAC Tournament: 5 • Hockey East Regular Season: 6 • Hockey East Tournament: 4
                        AWCHA Final Fours: 2 • NCAA Appearances: 5 • Frozen Fours: 2 • 1999 Runner Up
                        1998 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS

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                        • #27
                          Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

                          Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
                          While the incident is obviously ugly...the kid doing a 'stick tap' while the fight is going on is not pretty either. Ugh...this is why youth (and other levels) of many sports are having trouble finding officials. And on another note, is no one in this state covering UNH hockey anymore? I know the Union Leader has a person going to games and covering it, but I'd expect a story about how our season ended at least from the seacoastonline...maybe Al Pike has hung it up? Surely there's going to be a story about the season...right? Here's the Roger Brown UL story:

                          https://www.unionleader.com/sports/s...fb8daad66.html
                          Last edited by HockeyRef; 03-09-2020, 08:30 AM.
                          Here we go 'Cats!!

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                          • #28
                            Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

                            Originally posted by ClOuD 9 View Post
                            Agreed. Two win Vermont should not have an opportunity to win your league title and NCAA auto-bid...

                            If anything I'd reduce it further - 7 get in, #1 gets a bye making the regular season title meaningful, first round on campus as per.
                            That would be most interesting! And, can I just clear up, that while I am not thrilled about us not making the tournament, I do not agree that all teams should make it. Just sayin'. What I'm most concerned with right now is the HE Finals tix I just bought given what's going on with the coronavirus...lots can happen in 2 weeks!
                            Here we go 'Cats!!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

                              Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
                              Seeing a link here to Turtleboy just warms my heart on this Monday morning. Watcher you have good taste.

                              I think Hockeyref said this but most disturbing to me is the kid on the ice tapping his stick encouraging this behavior. Totally disgusted with this.
                              Originally posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010
                              The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

                                Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
                                Well, that was an interesting "Where Are They Now?" chapter in former scrub UNH players ...
                                Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                                Montreal Expos Forever ...

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