UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter :D

[Snively65]

The only way to do that - realistically - would be to add back a 12th team. I'm not sure that's imminent, and if/when it is, let's hope the league makes a more realistic decision than the one they made last time around (NICC). Bentley or Holy Cross would work just fine to my liking. Better yet, I'd like to see another NH school/program, but the potential options aren't particularly close to being ready to ramp up to D-1 level. And the likes of Quinnipiac or RPI just aren't interested. Now … if we had a far-sighted league/leadership, the winning option would be to get a NYC school/program to buy in, modestly subsidize them for a couple of years (if necessary/legal - Walshy assures me it's fine ) and once they become prominent, it drags HEA into real prominence.

Or not.



LOL. Yes, that's our BS-XL. Truly visionary.



I guess it was your turn to "go there" eh Darius?

First of all, I'm not sure if you've heard of this, but Sweden has taken a different approach, and it's called herd immunity. They've actually done FAR better than we have, without (needlessly) shutting down their economy. So if you're worried about Engaras or Erikson (sp?) no need to worry. They're likely going to be the most immune players, among a group (young healthy athletes) who the data shows has relatively miniscule risk of getting it anyway. "Problem" solved.



Who says it's "going to be different", and why?? That seems to be an increasingly popular catch-phrase bordering on so-called "conventional wisdom" (which historically has been neither conventional nor wisdom). Whether it's a vaccine, or herd immunity, or the thing just goes away - and let's face it, any of those options could happen, and anyone claiming to know for sure is full of it - at some point, this will be over. And then, why pray tell will sports (or life) be "different"? Is everyone going to cower in their basements every time the flu breaks out in the future?? Every time I hear "new normal", it reinforces my beliefs all along, that there is a large group of folks who embrace this as an excuse, or a vehicle to advance their wish-list agenda.

If we want to go further down this path, I'm happy to oblige you. I think you know that.

If not, we can agree to disagree, and move along to discuss my fabulous/stupid plan for HEA in NYC. Even sticking needles in our eyes would probably be more enjoyable to most of our readers than another partisan ring-around-the-rosie exercise no one wants to read/see/tolerate.

Sweden's approach to COVID has been disastrous so far; they only can hope that their death rate drops over time compared to other countries.

HEA presence in NYC area = LIU? :-)

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

Sweden's approach to COVID has been disastrous so far; they only can hope that their death rate drops over time compared to other countries.

"Disastrous" or "different"? If they're most of the way through to herd immunity, and have a growing economy (which they do) which allows them to avoid the uncounted-here-in-the-US spikes in deaths from depression, suicide (through the roof here in the US, but MSM buries that data), and drug/alcohol recidivism, then count me in. That was my preference from the start here.

Only surprised to see you weren't all-in on my mention of our dear beloved Bentley for HEA #12.

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

Looking forward to hockey. The 2021 BCHL season with lots of UNHers will be really interesting. For UNH, they lack some top end talent (the Ward thing would have helped get the top 2 lines in place), but with so much in flux, they have a chance to be competitive.

No 12th team, even if you want to unbalance the schedule. Maybe for the Covid season, you create a north and south division, and have 4 from each play in the playoffs. Five northern, six southern. Still unbalanced, but you'd be on the same terms as the others in your group.

Re-opening universities will be interesting, too. It looks like most will try to re-open on usual schedule until Thanksgiving, then go remote. I assume that has to be accounted for in the schedule. Its one thing for pro players to be asked to live in a bubble, but student athletes will be another. What happens once there's an outbreak at the college? Right now the plans are to isolate and try and limit the spread, but the problem is there can be quite a bit of asymptomatic spread, so quarantining may be of little effect. The good news is that the hospitalization rate for younger people is small, so the most at risk are the professors, and the staff bringing it back home with them. We've already told the kids that they will be at risk, though the chances of something bad for them is very small. While we hear the stories of bad outcomes for a few healthy people, and no one know the longer term pulminary risks, we've luckily had several extended people get it with manageable health issues. We're even at the forefront of trying to get a real graduation outdoors, while our school is doing a drive-in ceremony at the mall parking lot -- a bit too prudent. I suspect we'll have a smaller cookout ceremony so they can celebrate with their friends about 10-15 friends), all properly minimizing their risks.

The key to managing the virus will be the very steps those who want to reopen are mocking -- a mask and washing hands. It's weird that those who most want to reopen-- something we all want -- think ignoring it will achieve that result. I prefer using our best knowledge.


Cool story line about Sweden just leaving it to people. If you want a fact driven analysis, herd immunity is well off:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...en-coronavirus

Just 7.3% of Stockholm’s inhabitants had developed Covid-19 antibodies by the end of April, according to a study, raising concerns that the country’s light-touch approach to the coronavirus may not be helping it build up broad immunity.

from your National Review

Sweden’s COVID Death Rate Now Ten Times Higher than Norway’s

https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-than-norways/

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

Looking forward to hockey. The 2021 BCHl season with lots of UNHers will be really interesting. No 12th team, even if you want to unbalance the schedule. Maybe for the Covid season, you create a north and south division, and have 4 from each play in the playoffs.


Cool story line. The pesky facts:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...en-coronavirus

Just 7.3% of Stockholm’s inhabitants had developed Covid-19 antibodies by the end of April, according to a study, raising concerns that the country’s light-touch approach to the coronavirus may not be helping it build up broad immunity.

from your National Review

Sweden’s COVID Death Rate Now Ten Times Higher than Norway’s

https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-than-norways/

'Watcher, from what I have read...herd immunity takes time, lots of it. And it's still too early to determine if these antibodies last, and if they are effective against 2nd exposures (stories of secondary re-infections going on out there?) Hopefully, a hockey season!

On another note...still time to donate to the 603 challenge to the UNH program of your choice!

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

Cool story line about Sweden just leaving it to people. If you want a fact driven analysis, herd immunity is well off:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...en-coronavirus

Just 7.3% of Stockholm’s inhabitants had developed Covid-19 antibodies by the end of April, according to a study, raising concerns that the country’s light-touch approach to the coronavirus may not be helping it build up broad immunity.

from your National Review

Sweden’s COVID Death Rate Now Ten Times Higher than Norway’s

https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-than-norways/

Comparing Sweden to Norway is like comparing Massachusetts to New Hampshire, 'Watcher. Population density of Norway is half that of Sweden's, and a quick perusal of the COVID-19 maps for both countries show that Sweden's only problems center around Stockholm and the southern tip of the country, nearest to Copenhagen Denmark (another hot spot) . If you look at Sweden and Norway by drawing a line across from Oslo to Stockholm, and look north - where the countries are geographically/demographically identical - there is virtually zero difference between the two countries.

Also seems like Florida, Georgia and Texas (and many other states which were excoriated for emerging "too early") seem to be doing pretty darned well, I think you would agree? Total Massachusetts deaths alone are more than the combined death totals of Georgia, Florida and Texas. How's that for pesky facts?

https://nypost.com/2020/05/22/no-cor...tates-re-open/

Also, total Swedish population (10 million) vs. Massachusetts population (7 million), yet COVID deaths in MA are nearly twice that of Sweden. Oops ...

[Ray Dorn]

Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

It has been a pretty wild couple of months since the end of the hockey season. There have been a lot of other things to be thinking about besides UNH hockey.

As a person, an American and fellow hockey supporter I would like to apologize to Chuck for all of the abuse he received from others a few weeks ago for his political views.

I encourage everybody to try to be an independent voter for a couple of months. Be open minded. Watch an equal amount of the news from both sides of the political spectrum. For example, one hour a day of CNN/MSNBC and one hour of Fox News. I think you would be surprised of the 50% of what is going on in the World you never hear about. Intelligence is not only about what you know, but also about knowing what you don't know.

The two major political parties in America have changed tremendously over the last couple of decades. Just because you supported one political party 30 or 40 years ago does not mean you have to stay with them for the rest of your life. Political parties values have changed just like people's values change over time as we mature and have new life experiences. Changing political parties is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of strength!

[Ray Dorn]

Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

Now to UNH hockey.

I hope not shrinking the rink this summer does not hurt the team this upcoming season. Did the coaching staff recruit players this year, to some degree, based on a small sheet of ice?

I would not want to be a college coach at this particular time. With all of these protests, riots, looting, vandalism and arson going on throughout the country it is going to make things very difficult on all of the colleges/universities athletic departments. How are these athletic departments going to handle the student-athletes of their schools that have been a part of all of these criminal activities? Are they going to ignore and maybe try to bury the fact that some of their student-athletes have been committing these crimes against innocent people? Or are they going to strip them of their athletic scholarship, kick them out of their program and expel them from school?

I believe 60 to 80% of the supporters of all of these college athletic programs will not tolerate these colleges/ universities supporting these student-athletes that have committed these felonies against innocent American citizens. Just because they have not been caught and charged for these crimes does not mean the schools can ignore the fact that they participated in these crimes.

I hope no UNH hockey players have been participating in these criminal behaviors! Thoughts?

[d.gerry]

Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

Now to UNH hockey.

I hope not shrinking the rink this summer does not hurt the team this upcoming season. Did the coaching staff recruit players this year, to some degree, based on a small sheet of ice?

I would not want to be a college coach at this particular time. With all of these protests, riots, looting, vandalism and arson going on throughout the country it is going to make things very difficult on all of the colleges/universities athletic departments. How are these athletic departments going to handle the student-athletes of their schools that have been a part of all of these criminal activities? Are they going to ignore and maybe try to bury the fact that some of their student-athletes have been committing these crimes against innocent people? Or are they going to strip them of their athletic scholarship, kick them out of their program and expel them from school?

I believe 60 to 80% of the supporters of all of these college athletic programs will not tolerate these colleges/ universities supporting these student-athletes that have committed these felonies against innocent American citizens. Just because they have not been caught and charged for these crimes does not mean the schools can ignore the fact that they participated in these crimes.

I hope no UNH hockey players have been participating in these criminal behaviors! Thoughts?

Personally, I would be extremely surprised if any UNH hockey player (or any UNH athlete for that matter) is participating in criminal behavior. You can never say never, but it would be a shock to me if any UNH athlete has to be suspended or asked to leave. As for shrink the rink, it's on hold and will not be happening for a couple of years.

[C-H-C]

I believe 60 to 80% of the supporters of all of these college athletic programs will not tolerate these colleges/ universities supporting these student-athletes that have committed these felonies against innocent American citizens. Just because they have not been caught and charged for these crimes does not mean the schools can ignore the fact that they participated in these crimes.

I believe 100% of the supporters of all these college athletic programs (other than you) wonder what the heck you’re talking about.
Here’s a different perspective:
"Texas Football Coach Tom Herman Talks About the Double Standard He Says Fans Have for Black Student-athletes"

[Snively65]

"Disastrous" or "different"? If they're most of the way through to herd immunity, and have a growing economy (which they do) which allows them to avoid the uncounted-here-in-the-US spikes in deaths from depression, suicide (through the roof here in the US, but MSM buries that data), and drug/alcohol recidivism, then count me in. That was my preference from the start here.

Only surprised to see you weren't all-in on my mention of our dear beloved Bentley for HEA #12.

I think that Bentley has a much better arena than Holy Cross, and the Cats have been a much more formidable OOC opponent than HC against UNH and NU. But, neither Bentley nor Holy Cross are geographically located to support your "fabulous/stupid plan" (your words, I think) for HEA presence in the NYC area. Hence, I thought that you were eyeing LIU as HEA team #12.

[Snively65]

Now to UNH hockey.

I hope not shrinking the rink this summer does not hurt the team this upcoming season. Did the coaching staff recruit players this year, to some degree, based on a small sheet of ice?

I would not want to be a college coach at this particular time. With all of these protests, riots, looting, vandalism and arson going on throughout the country it is going to make things very difficult on all of the colleges/universities athletic departments. How are these athletic departments going to handle the student-athletes of their schools that have been a part of all of these criminal activities? Are they going to ignore and maybe try to bury the fact that some of their student-athletes have been committing these crimes against innocent people? Or are they going to strip them of their athletic scholarship, kick them out of their program and expel them from school?

I believe 60 to 80% of the supporters of all of these college athletic programs will not tolerate these colleges/ universities supporting these student-athletes that have committed these felonies against innocent American citizens. Just because they have not been caught and charged for these crimes does not mean the schools can ignore the fact that they participated in these crimes.

I hope no UNH hockey players have been participating in these criminal behaviors! Thoughts?

Do you have any evidence that college student athletes have been involved in recent criminal activity? Or, are you simply parroting your master?

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

I believe 100% of the supporters of all these college athletic programs (other than you) wonder what the heck you’re talking about.
Here’s a different perspective:
"Texas Football Coach Tom Herman Talks About the Double Standard He Says Fans Have for Black Student-athletes"

+1

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

I think that Bentley has a much better arena than Holy Cross, and the Cats Falcons have been a much more formidable OOC opponent than HC against UNH and NU. But, neither Bentley nor Holy Cross are geographically located to support your "fabulous/stupid plan" (your words, I think) for HEA presence in the NYC area. Hence, I thought that you were eyeing LIU as HEA team #12.

First of all, fixed your post. I promise not to report your faux pas to the folks at Beaver and Forest.

As to Bentley/Holy Cross vs. LIU or whomever … I guess I viewed the choice between the former two more local schools being the safer, more predictable choice for a #12 program … and the NYC program as being the "swing for the fences" option which could someday pay off big-time for HEA and its member schools. Honestly, I haven't paid any attention to the LIU story, and frankly, I think having a program with that appellation is hardly going to "sell" them to folks in the bigger City. My guess is that, if all went as well as possible for a LIU HEA D-1 hockey program, *maybe* they become a UConn, which is a competitive, semi-proficient, yet still disconnected program from the rest of its league. And while NYC and its environs are still pretty much virgin territory for D-1 hockey, I don't see the City folks taking an Island team to their hearts. See Rangers vs. Islanders fan dynamics, even in the '80's.

If college hockey is ever going to have a chance to sell in the Big Apple, I'm afraid it's going to have to be through probably at least two of the City's schools - and none of them have really ever shown the slightest interest that I'm aware of. I want to say that "hey, look at what happened when Dave Gavitt came up with Big East Basketball", which quite frankly was probably a huge precedent for what shortly thereafter became Hockey East. But with the Big East, the league already had a program in the City (St. John's) AND probably most importantly, NYC was still revered as a mecca for college hoops going back many decades. We don't have any of that history with hockey. So an NYC presence in HEA realistically still remains naught but a pipe dream.

However, from the perspective of the New England schools who came to national prominence by way of the Big East - and the one most notable example was/is UConn, which until the Big East came to be was just a Storrs by the Oyster River (UNH) - catching lightning in a bottle by hitting the big time at the right time (and note how UConn emerged at the same time CT-based ESPN was emerging as well, with a heavy emphasis on BE college hoops) has to still be somewhat alluring.

Hockey East swung for the fences and missed with NICC. If they're ever going to take another rip at the big-time, it's going to be with hockey in or around NYC. Is it going to work? Probably not (accounting for the "stupid" part of "fabulous/stupid plan". But as long as HEA continues to exist, at some point, if they're around long enough, someone's going to take a shot at it. Is Metcalf going to be that guy? Doubtful. He's probably focused on doing what he can to keep Merrimack in the league to maintain some harmony on the home front …

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

He lost me when he lumped protest in with criminal actions. I assume the inability to distinguish between laudable behavior and illegal behavior led to the rest of his post.

Chuc, to your point, I do see that there are legitimate theories for reopening. I think shutting down was the proper thing to do to stabilize the situation, buy time, and learn about the enemy. Now that we are a bit further down the road, everyone agrees with reopening. Whether GA/Texas proves to have timed it right will be determined only after a while. How and when is the challenge, and rural/city dynamics are obviously key. The obvious answer is that sports should be last on the list, though for pro sports, the value, both monetary and mental for fans.
The problem for college athletes is that the NCAA pretends the valuable sports are mostly for students, and now have to grapple with wanting the money. For sports like Hockey that are marginal profit centers, or even losses, do you keep them even though the risk outweighs the benefits?
As I said, with colleges reopening in the fall, with some protections but really with few for the students (roomates, dorms, social interaction), and facemasks, as odd as that feels to us, are the largest component of that -- I think we know that droplets in enclosed areas are the largest vector, while transmission through surfaces is minor. The key will be accepting risk, knowing that they are in the lowest risk group, and testing so that even while there will be spread before syptoms, outbreaks can be caught to mimize exponential growth. Ultimately, people will have to accept their risk tolerance, and I think most college kids and athletes are willing to do so. The concern is less for them, and more on the people to whom they may unwittingly pass it -- family and elders.
Its really the older folks at risk, and college professors tend to be pretty old, and some coaches, too. Whether coaches/professors want to take a sabbatical or retire will be an issue.
And, because the transmission can occur before symptoms/diagnosis, the leagues have to figure out what happens when one player tests positive, and suddenly 5 kids on the team also get it. Does the team just drop out of the league for the season? Do they try and ride it out with the remaining 20 players?

*** Sweden has admitted that its approach was wrong, so touting them may not support the argument. As with everything, the extremes are not right, and the truth lies in balancing the greys.

Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.


“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” Anders Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish Radio.


Tegnell is the brains behind Sweden’s controversial approach to fighting the virus, and the government of Stefan Lofven has deferred to the epidemiologist in its official response to the pandemic. Gatherings of more than 50 people continue to be banned, but throughout the crisis Swedes have been able to visit restaurants, go shopping, attend gyms and send children under 16 to school.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-things-wrong

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter

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