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2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

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  • #46
    Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

    Originally posted by Charlie Catamount View Post
    I disagree that it is misleading because it's very relevant to the conversation. Lang can nearly double his salary and he will have a bigger budget and resources than what he has now. That is a huge factor for someone deciding between jobs. UVM has more to offer in that regard than AIC regardless of league affilitation and that is something any Atlantic Hockey coach would have to consider even if UVM's budget relative to BC isn't high. As for the path to the autobid yes that is true but if AIC loses in its tournament it doesn't get a bid which in Hockey East you would still have a chance. From 2010-2019 there was nearly an average of 4 bids in Hockey East with a few recent years having 5 or 6. This year it was highly likely that there were going to be 4 teams in. You don't have to win Hockey East to get a bid and win a national title...not that I expect that from UVM every year or something but it is true of the entire league for its better 4-5 teams every year. If Lang wants to stay at AIC and rack up the wins and have a greater chance at getting more bids I respect that but I think we have to be honest and say that resource wise UVM can and will likely always give any AIC coach more to work with in terms of money committed to the team and has a bigger profile. It all comes down to whether any coach is able to take the resources they have and make the most out of it and if they are up for the task. AIC might be a better job than UVM right now but there is no denying that when UVM performs it offers a much higher upside than AIC has ever shown.
    All true. As good of a run as he's had, its a small sample size with a two year run above .500. Point being, if AIC happened to come back down to earth the next few years back to .500, he won't be the **** hot candidate that he is right now...that's the risk he's balancing and the choice he needs to make. He has shown he is extremely loyal to his alma mater, and that is to be commended. Bottom line is that Hockey East and ECAC jobs are few and far between especially when you remove the bean pot schools who only hire "their own". Hockey aside, career wise he's 45 yrs. old -- an extra $60,000-80,000 per year in your retirement account is REAL and a decision not to be made lightly.
    ""Ralph is the Chuck Norris of this board. Ralph doesnt sleep he just waits." - fishcore12

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    • #47
      Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes



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      • #48
        Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

        Definitely surprised that Lang is out of the running as he felt like the front runner, but as previously mentioned I was a little nervous about his international recruiting style and whether it would translate to HE.

        Both Barr and Keefe seem like good answers from the little I know.

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        • #49
          Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

          Well something definitely must have happened in the search because it felt all signs were pointing to Lang so what I want to know is whose decision was it really. Bummed to see Rolston be out too I think he really had a great resume. Like I said I really do wonder who or what is holding this up to go from Lang and Rolston to now guys who seem like they are choices 3-4-5. I am not sold on Ben Barr at all and that is just me personally. Being an assistant at winning programs is nice but and I know he's on the younger side but the bouncing around that sort of has a Wallack vibe. Jerry Keefe sounds nice and with him you can see he was committed to helping Northeastern grow but how can UVM even be sure that in 3-4 years he'd go right back to a better job in Northeastern when Madigan retires? Unless Madigan has a lot of years left to go he's 57 so that's not really that old anymore but it does strongly feel like Keefe is their coach in waiting. If he came in and turned it around quick and went back there that would be nice but you'd have to really hope some big improvements were set. The Grillo/Perrin thing is nice for nostalgia but unless there's some magic play they both have to get this thing going again I have many doubts.

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          • #50
            Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

            While I agree that Lang was thought to be the front runner, I'm not sure I would agree with the characterization that Barr and Keefe are lesser choices. Both are guys who could credibly interview for any open college coaching job in the country. Barr at least has been among the names from the very start, and many have favored him over Lang.

            I do wonder if Lang out is his choice or UVMs for sure, primarily because if it was his choice it'd be interesting to understand why.

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            • #51
              Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

              Originally posted by Charlie Catamount View Post
              Well something definitely must have happened in the search because it felt all signs were pointing to Lang so what I want to know is whose decision was it really. Bummed to see Rolston be out too I think he really had a great resume. Like I said I really do wonder who or what is holding this up to go from Lang and Rolston to now guys who seem like they are choices 3-4-5. I am not sold on Ben Barr at all and that is just me personally. Being an assistant at winning programs is nice but and I know he's on the younger side but the bouncing around that sort of has a Wallack vibe. Jerry Keefe sounds nice and with him you can see he was committed to helping Northeastern grow but how can UVM even be sure that in 3-4 years he'd go right back to a better job in Northeastern when Madigan retires? Unless Madigan has a lot of years left to go he's 57 so that's not really that old anymore but it does strongly feel like Keefe is their coach in waiting. If he came in and turned it around quick and went back there that would be nice but you'd have to really hope some big improvements were set. The Grillo/Perrin thing is nice for nostalgia but unless there's some magic play they both have to get this thing going again I have many doubts.
              The McMahon tweet says that St. Louis pushing hard for Grillo / Perrin:

              Grillo coached Brown from 1997-98 to 2008-09 and was 120-205-52 (.387). Sneddon was .438 career. Grillo has been with USA hockey since.

              Perrin retired from European league in 2018 and now coaches youth hockey in FL. Doesn't appear to have coaching / recruiting experience at college level.

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              • #52
                Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

                Originally posted by Catamount93 View Post
                While I agree that Lang was thought to be the front runner, I'm not sure I would agree with the characterization that Barr and Keefe are lesser choices. Both are guys who could credibly interview for any open college coaching job in the country. Barr at least has been among the names from the very start, and many have favored him over Lang.

                I do wonder if Lang out is his choice or UVMs for sure, primarily because if it was his choice it'd be interesting to understand why.
                Maybe not lesser choices but I would say the characterization based on reporting here is that Lang and Rolston were out front with Grillo and something happened. The feeling I get is Lang and Rolston were the top choices for UVM and for whatever reason be it UVM not committing or the others deciding it is not the right job for them this all changed. All last week it was those three and now it's Barr and Keefe and a bunch of others. They might be nice choices but I think if you compare them to Lang and Rolston in my personal opinion Lang and Rolston are stronger. Out of the two I think I prefer Jerry Keefe. Ben Barr I feel like he gets a lot of buzz for being at places that win and that does mean something but I also wonder why he was not able to get the job at his alma mater RPI which they might have low resources but even if UVM has more taking UVM is probably akin to taking RPI in ECAC. https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ne...ing-Search.php

                Does seem RPI made the right choice as their current coach has them on a positive track. To me I just wonder about guys who the media hypes up as super assistants all the time and say deserves a shot to coach and seemingly have been doing this for years and yet the person is not given a shot. In the last few years there has been RPI, Merrimack, St. Lawrence, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan - it is not a lot of options and each job has different challenges and perhaps even maybe UVM could be considered the best among them but if someone like Barr deserves a chance why was he not given an opportunity at any of them? If he is the guy at UVM I'll support it and hope he wins but I think we all need to be fair here and discuss pluses and minuses with each candidate and to me that would be one with Barr asking if he is a product of hype among the hockey media community rather than someone who has what it takes to get it done?

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                • #53
                  Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

                  Originally posted by Charlie Catamount View Post
                  Well something definitely must have happened in the search because it felt all signs were pointing to Lang so what I want to know is whose decision was it really.
                  The Jeff Cox tweet said Lang and Rolston "have been informed they are out of the running to replace Kevin Sneddon at UVM." That sounds like it was a UVM decision and not a Lang decision. Who knows, it could be anything. Maybe he didn't interview well.

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                  • #54
                    Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

                    Originally posted by UVMFAN View Post
                    The McMahon tweet says that St. Louis pushing hard for Grillo / Perrin:
                    That is interesting because Keefe recruited St Louis' son to play at NU. If Keefe were to take the job I'd assume Ryan St Louis would play at UVM.
                    2016 and 2019 HOCKEY EAST CHAMPIONS
                    2018, 2019 and 2020 BEANPOT CHAMPIONS


                    MATTHEWS ARENA 1910-Present: THE CATHEDRAL OF COLLEGE HOCKEY

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                    • #55
                      Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

                      Originally posted by Thiessen'sBetter View Post
                      That is interesting because Keefe recruited St Louis' son to play at NU. If Keefe were to take the job I'd assume Ryan St Louis would play at UVM.
                      I know, I thought of that. It's not a given, but you would think that might happen. As an NU fan, what's your assessment of Jerry Keefe?

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by UVM Cat in Texas View Post
                        I know, I thought of that. It's not a given, but you would think that might happen. As an NU fan, what's your assessment of Jerry Keefe?
                        He's terrific. Great recruiter, fantastic PP tactician. He's a HUGE part of NU's success the last 5 years. So please don't take him.
                        2016 and 2019 HOCKEY EAST CHAMPIONS
                        2018, 2019 and 2020 BEANPOT CHAMPIONS


                        MATTHEWS ARENA 1910-Present: THE CATHEDRAL OF COLLEGE HOCKEY

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Thiessen'sBetter View Post
                          He's terrific. Great recruiter, fantastic PP tactician. He's a HUGE part of NU's success the last 5 years. So please don't take him.
                          +1

                          & yeah, leave him alone.

                          If you do however get him, .... good for UVM hockey & good for Jerry. Worked for everything hes gotten. All the best and either way, Catamount hockey is gonna be back with a bang.
                          GO NU HOCKEY
                          Always bullish on the future.
                          We don't always win Hockey East or the Beanpot (#trilogy).. but when we do.. we are the Champions

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Charlie Catamount View Post
                            Maybe not lesser choices but I would say the characterization based on reporting here is that Lang and Rolston were out front with Grillo and something happened. The feeling I get is Lang and Rolston were the top choices for UVM and for whatever reason be it UVM not committing or the others deciding it is not the right job for them this all changed. All last week it was those three and now it's Barr and Keefe and a bunch of others. They might be nice choices but I think if you compare them to Lang and Rolston in my personal opinion Lang and Rolston are stronger. Out of the two I think I prefer Jerry Keefe. Ben Barr I feel like he gets a lot of buzz for being at places that win and that does mean something but I also wonder why he was not able to get the job at his alma mater RPI which they might have low resources but even if UVM has more taking UVM is probably akin to taking RPI in ECAC. https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ne...ing-Search.php

                            Does seem RPI made the right choice as their current coach has them on a positive track. To me I just wonder about guys who the media hypes up as super assistants all the time and say deserves a shot to coach and seemingly have been doing this for years and yet the person is not given a shot. In the last few years there has been RPI, Merrimack, St. Lawrence, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan - it is not a lot of options and each job has different challenges and perhaps even maybe UVM could be considered the best among them but if someone like Barr deserves a chance why was he not given an opportunity at any of them? If he is the guy at UVM I'll support it and hope he wins but I think we all need to be fair here and discuss pluses and minuses with each candidate and to me that would be one with Barr asking if he is a product of hype among the hockey media community rather than someone who has what it takes to get it done?
                            I think you might be reading too much into the RPI hire. Smith has done a great job and certainly had the team rolling before the shutdown this season. That said, the RPI search was handled by an AD who knows nothing about hockey, who then went out and hired a search firm that had never performed a D1 hockey search... All accounts were the search committee failed to seek out or listen to any prominent hockey alum input. That said , all indications were the decision came down to a coin flip between Barr and Smith. Benny is a top D1 recruiter and coach who has excelled at every stop he's made. You never really know if an AC can lead a program until they are given a shot, but Benny has been paying his dues
                            ""Ralph is the Chuck Norris of this board. Ralph doesnt sleep he just waits." - fishcore12

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                            • #59
                              Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

                              Originally posted by Wicked Slappaahs View Post
                              I think you might be reading too much into the RPI hire. Smith has done a great job and certainly had the team rolling before the shutdown this season. That said, the RPI search was handled by an AD who knows nothing about hockey, who then went out and hired a search firm that had never performed a D1 hockey search... All accounts were the search committee failed to seek out or listen to any prominent hockey alum input. That said , all indications were the decision came down to a coin flip between Barr and Smith. Benny is a top D1 recruiter and coach who has excelled at every stop he's made. You never really know if an AC can lead a program until they are given a shot, but Benny has been paying his dues
                              Maybe I am but I think you answered my question regarding Barr. Everyone calls him this wonder recruiter and I know he does coaching but to me even if UVM needs a major talent upgrade hiring a wonder recruiter who when we really think about it as an assistant doesn't take much of the blame because the fans put that on the head coach and rightfully so because they are the leader. So in my mind the flags for Barr are if he's as good as people say so why hasn't the trigger been pulled earlier and is he more than a recruiter tied to successful programs? Again this is just having to see both sides of the equation in my opinion and that to me is one that I would see with Barr that I would put in the "cons" section if we were doing them for each candidate.

                              And in fairness so people don't think I have some grudge against him here is how I'd have done it with the other 4 main people in the search:

                              Lang's pros are that he took over a very bad program and turned them around into a winning side in 4 years all while creating a winning culture and style in the program with lack of resources, all something that UVM could use. The cons are that Atlantic Hockey is not Hockey East and the step up may be too great and whether or not that type of recruiting works in Hockey East.

                              Rolston has a vast array of experience working at many college stops for great minds and has head coaching experience in the junior and pro level. He would have brought lots of credibility to the program. The cons are that he's never had a head coaching job in college and even with head coaching experience at higher levels we all know college can be different especially with a program like UVM that needs a full system re-jolt.

                              Grillo is popular with the alums and was around for a lot of good times and he probably would actually get some people excited believe it or not especially if he brought Perrin in. It might be a combo if done right it's outside the box and it works. I won't compare it fully to Madigan at NU but at the time people thought his hire was a joke right? Well if Grillo gets the right people around him maybe that scenario repeats? His record at Brown was terrible and while that's a very bad job you are what your record says you are and he was bad despite having some NHL level players on his roster. He hasn't coached in 10 years and whether or not he's actually learned anything or adapted in his role at USA Hockey remains to be seen.

                              Jerry Keefe has been part of Northeastern's rebuild and that's brought many good results and he has been committed to that process. He's a solid candidate but I would wonder about his long term commitment to UVM especially if say in 3-4 years Madigan decides to step aside would he then be lured back to Northeastern which likely at that point even if he had success here would be a better job, and is "home" for him? How would UVM look if it potentially lost a coach to a conference rival even in a unique situation? You can't dwell on that but for a school that believes in the hire a hockey coach once every 20 years that's something the administration isn't used to.

                              End of the day whoever gets it out of that group I will give my support and I hope they'll have what it takes to get the program back on track but personally I feel that you have to have some skepticism on anyone hired for such an important position and hope they are able to prove any doubts wrong.

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                              • #60
                                Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

                                Based on rumblings I've heard, the search has turned into a bit of a fiasco. Would put good $ on it being Keefe or Grillo at this point
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