Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Charlie Catamount
    replied
    Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

    Originally posted by DavidNardolillo View Post
    +1. Another RPI fan here. I agree that you shouldn't read the RPI hire of Dave Smith as a red flag against Barr. There is a lot of scuttlebutt floating around about what happened and why, but remember that RPI just had a terrible season that few coaches would survive and had just fired Seth Appert who was the functional equivalent of Ben Barr when he was hired (an assistant with no HC experience and a reputation as a good recruiter). In other words. I think RPI may simply have been in a place where the scales would have already been tipped significantly towards someone with Dave Smith's profile.
    That's fair but I would say in my opinion that even thought UVM needs a significant talent upgrade hiring a coach who has that as his number one priority might not work because it's similar to RPI because UVM really needs someone who can get the right talent for here and develop and coach them to be constantly punching above their weight and also not bottoming out so bad if a good class comes through in a four year cycle. I honestly don't know if Barr can do that or not that is for the committee to decide but I generally consider myself wary of the "big recruiter" types. If he get's the job okay I hope he gets it rolling and proves me wrong.

    Given what people have said here with Keefe and Grillo still being in the hunt and their connections to St. Louis feels like maybe he has a sway over the committee? I definitely prefer Keefe because he's been in college coaching and has been through a complete rebuild of a team that outside like one year where that team with Brad Theissen as goalie did really well they completely stunk and if it's to be believed the level of impact Keefe has had along with Madigan to help them build to 3 NCAAs and 3 Beanpots after being completely irrelveant at the start of the 2010s I want some of that. If it's Grillo and Perrin I really hope they're bringing in someone in the other spot who could be the Jerry Keefe role for that coaching staff to bring UVM back because the nostalgia will wear off if the wins don't start coming.

    Also for Martin's kid if he wants to come that's great but I also would understand the pressure if he didn't want to be here either. I definitely got the sense too that St. Louis had a frosty relationship with Sneddon and even if it was his son's choice to go where he wanted to go to school I do think Marty knew Sneddon toward the end really wasn't going to be the best fit from a developmental sense. I read an article on the Arizona State kid who just signed with the Sharks who initially committed to UVM and decided against it and had a great career down there. Seems that was a pattern toward the end and whether or not it was some cutthroat recruiting the fact that lots of talented kids jumped ship after the results got bad says a lot. The next coach really needs to do a lot to repair some bridges that I think might have been burned or just to get UVM back in the conversation with new blood.

    Leave a comment:


  • UVM Cat in Texas
    replied
    Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

    Originally posted by PuckVoice View Post
    L
    Roger coached the offense back in the day at UVM and set up the PP ... St.Louis and Perrin loved him and gave him a lot of credit for their success. Not surprised Marty is pushing him ... but find it interesting that his son is committed to Northeastern and it was Keefe who recruited him.
    Would young St.Louis de-commit and switch to UVM if either of them get the job?
    Very interesting question. I think there's a good chance he would. I don't know much about the relationship (if any) between MSL and Sneddon, but it didn't seem to be a particularly warm one. Would love to have young Ryan on board, of course!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • PuckVoice
    replied
    Originally posted by UVM Cat in Texas View Post
    I really don't get it either. He's got previous connections to UVM, so I guess that makes a difference for Schulman (the AD). Apparently he's also the choice of Marty St. Louis, and he'd come as a package deal with Eric Perrin as assistant coach, arguably the best player ever in program history (along with MSL himself of course, and based on college numbers alone).
    L
    Roger coached the offense back in the day at UVM and set up the PP ... St.Louis and Perrin loved him and gave him a lot of credit for their success. Not surprised Marty is pushing him ... but find it interesting that his son is committed to Northeastern and it was Keefe who recruited him.
    Would young St.Louis de-commit and switch to UVM if either of them get the job?

    Leave a comment:


  • UVM Cat in Texas
    replied
    Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

    Originally posted by Dallas98 View Post
    I'd take O'Keefe, too. As a close follower of the Brown program for 20 years now, and a sentimental UVM fan, it pains me to think of Grillo at the helm. Yes, the Brown position can be a tough row to hoe, but I'm not sure what about 11-44 (Grillo's record the last 2 years at Brown), or 2 winning seasons out of 12 (and both barely at 16-14) the search committee wouldn't get, also look at his record without the 3 years Yann Danis was the starter in goal - the .387 winning percentage drops to .339. All that to say is a large part of the modest success and excitement in the program under Grillo was due to Danis, and any shred of that excitement was long gone years before Grillo's departure. I'd hate to see that stagnation set in in Burlington, and I'm not sure that 10+ years out of coaching in the meantime gives me any hope that round 2 would be very different.
    I really don't get it either. He's got previous connections to UVM, so I guess that makes a difference for Schulman (the AD). Apparently he's also the choice of Marty St. Louis, and he'd come as a package deal with Eric Perrin as assistant coach, arguably the best player ever in program history (along with MSL himself of course, and based on college numbers alone).

    Leave a comment:


  • Dallas98
    replied
    Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

    Originally posted by UVM Cat in Texas View Post
    I’ll take Keefe. He’d be my choice at this point. I think they need to make a decision. Let’s wrap this up and move on.
    I'd take O'Keefe, too. As a close follower of the Brown program for 20 years now, and a sentimental UVM fan, it pains me to think of Grillo at the helm. Yes, the Brown position can be a tough row to hoe, but I'm not sure what about 11-44 (Grillo's record the last 2 years at Brown), or 2 winning seasons out of 12 (and both barely at 16-14) the search committee wouldn't get, also look at his record without the 3 years Yann Danis was the starter in goal - the .387 winning percentage drops to .339. All that to say is a large part of the modest success and excitement in the program under Grillo was due to Danis, and any shred of that excitement was long gone years before Grillo's departure. I'd hate to see that stagnation set in in Burlington, and I'm not sure that 10+ years out of coaching in the meantime gives me any hope that round 2 would be very different.

    Leave a comment:


  • UVM Cat in Texas
    replied
    Originally posted by TovarishchLisa View Post
    Based on rumblings I've heard, the search has turned into a bit of a fiasco. Would put good $ on it being Keefe or Grillo at this point
    I’ll take Keefe. He’d be my choice at this point. I think they need to make a decision. Let’s wrap this up and move on.

    Leave a comment:


  • DavidNardolillo
    replied
    Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

    Originally posted by Wicked Slappaahs View Post
    I think you might be reading too much into the RPI hire. Smith has done a great job and certainly had the team rolling before the shutdown this season. That said, the RPI search was handled by an AD who knows nothing about hockey, who then went out and hired a search firm that had never performed a D1 hockey search... All accounts were the search committee failed to seek out or listen to any prominent hockey alum input. That said , all indications were the decision came down to a coin flip between Barr and Smith. Benny is a top D1 recruiter and coach who has excelled at every stop he's made. You never really know if an AC can lead a program until they are given a shot, but Benny has been paying his dues
    +1. Another RPI fan here. I agree that you shouldn't read the RPI hire of Dave Smith as a red flag against Barr. There is a lot of scuttlebutt floating around about what happened and why, but remember that RPI just had a terrible season that few coaches would survive and had just fired Seth Appert who was the functional equivalent of Ben Barr when he was hired (an assistant with no HC experience and a reputation as a good recruiter). In other words. I think RPI may simply have been in a place where the scales would have already been tipped significantly towards someone with Dave Smith's profile.

    Leave a comment:


  • TovarishchLisa
    replied
    Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

    Based on rumblings I've heard, the search has turned into a bit of a fiasco. Would put good $ on it being Keefe or Grillo at this point

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlie Catamount
    replied
    Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

    Originally posted by Wicked Slappaahs View Post
    I think you might be reading too much into the RPI hire. Smith has done a great job and certainly had the team rolling before the shutdown this season. That said, the RPI search was handled by an AD who knows nothing about hockey, who then went out and hired a search firm that had never performed a D1 hockey search... All accounts were the search committee failed to seek out or listen to any prominent hockey alum input. That said , all indications were the decision came down to a coin flip between Barr and Smith. Benny is a top D1 recruiter and coach who has excelled at every stop he's made. You never really know if an AC can lead a program until they are given a shot, but Benny has been paying his dues
    Maybe I am but I think you answered my question regarding Barr. Everyone calls him this wonder recruiter and I know he does coaching but to me even if UVM needs a major talent upgrade hiring a wonder recruiter who when we really think about it as an assistant doesn't take much of the blame because the fans put that on the head coach and rightfully so because they are the leader. So in my mind the flags for Barr are if he's as good as people say so why hasn't the trigger been pulled earlier and is he more than a recruiter tied to successful programs? Again this is just having to see both sides of the equation in my opinion and that to me is one that I would see with Barr that I would put in the "cons" section if we were doing them for each candidate.

    And in fairness so people don't think I have some grudge against him here is how I'd have done it with the other 4 main people in the search:

    Lang's pros are that he took over a very bad program and turned them around into a winning side in 4 years all while creating a winning culture and style in the program with lack of resources, all something that UVM could use. The cons are that Atlantic Hockey is not Hockey East and the step up may be too great and whether or not that type of recruiting works in Hockey East.

    Rolston has a vast array of experience working at many college stops for great minds and has head coaching experience in the junior and pro level. He would have brought lots of credibility to the program. The cons are that he's never had a head coaching job in college and even with head coaching experience at higher levels we all know college can be different especially with a program like UVM that needs a full system re-jolt.

    Grillo is popular with the alums and was around for a lot of good times and he probably would actually get some people excited believe it or not especially if he brought Perrin in. It might be a combo if done right it's outside the box and it works. I won't compare it fully to Madigan at NU but at the time people thought his hire was a joke right? Well if Grillo gets the right people around him maybe that scenario repeats? His record at Brown was terrible and while that's a very bad job you are what your record says you are and he was bad despite having some NHL level players on his roster. He hasn't coached in 10 years and whether or not he's actually learned anything or adapted in his role at USA Hockey remains to be seen.

    Jerry Keefe has been part of Northeastern's rebuild and that's brought many good results and he has been committed to that process. He's a solid candidate but I would wonder about his long term commitment to UVM especially if say in 3-4 years Madigan decides to step aside would he then be lured back to Northeastern which likely at that point even if he had success here would be a better job, and is "home" for him? How would UVM look if it potentially lost a coach to a conference rival even in a unique situation? You can't dwell on that but for a school that believes in the hire a hockey coach once every 20 years that's something the administration isn't used to.

    End of the day whoever gets it out of that group I will give my support and I hope they'll have what it takes to get the program back on track but personally I feel that you have to have some skepticism on anyone hired for such an important position and hope they are able to prove any doubts wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wicked Slappaahs
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlie Catamount View Post
    Maybe not lesser choices but I would say the characterization based on reporting here is that Lang and Rolston were out front with Grillo and something happened. The feeling I get is Lang and Rolston were the top choices for UVM and for whatever reason be it UVM not committing or the others deciding it is not the right job for them this all changed. All last week it was those three and now it's Barr and Keefe and a bunch of others. They might be nice choices but I think if you compare them to Lang and Rolston in my personal opinion Lang and Rolston are stronger. Out of the two I think I prefer Jerry Keefe. Ben Barr I feel like he gets a lot of buzz for being at places that win and that does mean something but I also wonder why he was not able to get the job at his alma mater RPI which they might have low resources but even if UVM has more taking UVM is probably akin to taking RPI in ECAC. https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ne...ing-Search.php

    Does seem RPI made the right choice as their current coach has them on a positive track. To me I just wonder about guys who the media hypes up as super assistants all the time and say deserves a shot to coach and seemingly have been doing this for years and yet the person is not given a shot. In the last few years there has been RPI, Merrimack, St. Lawrence, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan - it is not a lot of options and each job has different challenges and perhaps even maybe UVM could be considered the best among them but if someone like Barr deserves a chance why was he not given an opportunity at any of them? If he is the guy at UVM I'll support it and hope he wins but I think we all need to be fair here and discuss pluses and minuses with each candidate and to me that would be one with Barr asking if he is a product of hype among the hockey media community rather than someone who has what it takes to get it done?
    I think you might be reading too much into the RPI hire. Smith has done a great job and certainly had the team rolling before the shutdown this season. That said, the RPI search was handled by an AD who knows nothing about hockey, who then went out and hired a search firm that had never performed a D1 hockey search... All accounts were the search committee failed to seek out or listen to any prominent hockey alum input. That said , all indications were the decision came down to a coin flip between Barr and Smith. Benny is a top D1 recruiter and coach who has excelled at every stop he's made. You never really know if an AC can lead a program until they are given a shot, but Benny has been paying his dues

    Leave a comment:


  • northeastern
    replied
    Originally posted by Thiessen'sBetter View Post
    He's terrific. Great recruiter, fantastic PP tactician. He's a HUGE part of NU's success the last 5 years. So please don't take him.
    +1

    & yeah, leave him alone.

    If you do however get him, .... good for UVM hockey & good for Jerry. Worked for everything he’s gotten. All the best and either way, Catamount hockey is gonna be back with a bang.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thiessen'sBetter
    replied
    Originally posted by UVM Cat in Texas View Post
    I know, I thought of that. It's not a given, but you would think that might happen. As an NU fan, what's your assessment of Jerry Keefe?
    He's terrific. Great recruiter, fantastic PP tactician. He's a HUGE part of NU's success the last 5 years. So please don't take him.

    Leave a comment:


  • UVM Cat in Texas
    replied
    Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

    Originally posted by Thiessen'sBetter View Post
    That is interesting because Keefe recruited St Louis' son to play at NU. If Keefe were to take the job I'd assume Ryan St Louis would play at UVM.
    I know, I thought of that. It's not a given, but you would think that might happen. As an NU fan, what's your assessment of Jerry Keefe?

    Leave a comment:


  • Thiessen'sBetter
    replied
    Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

    Originally posted by UVMFAN View Post
    The McMahon tweet says that St. Louis pushing hard for Grillo / Perrin:
    That is interesting because Keefe recruited St Louis' son to play at NU. If Keefe were to take the job I'd assume Ryan St Louis would play at UVM.

    Leave a comment:


  • UVM Cat in Texas
    replied
    Re: 2020 UVM offseason: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

    Originally posted by Charlie Catamount View Post
    Well something definitely must have happened in the search because it felt all signs were pointing to Lang so what I want to know is whose decision was it really.
    The Jeff Cox tweet said Lang and Rolston "have been informed they are out of the running to replace Kevin Sneddon at UVM." That sounds like it was a UVM decision and not a Lang decision. Who knows, it could be anything. Maybe he didn't interview well.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X