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Originally posted by Jofa View PostOk we have precedent now get to it
Leon Abbott is a former college ice hockey coach who is most remembered for being fired by Boston University six games into the 1973–74 season
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Originally posted by vicious View Post
Abbott used an ineligible player and BU was forced to forfeit a bunch of games. There was a smoking gun. Apples and oranges with the present situation.
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Originally posted by vicious View Post
Abbott used an ineligible player and BU was forced to forfeit a bunch of games. There was a smoking gun. Apples and oranges with the present situation.Originally posted by RossiRules View Post
He used two ineligible players, both of whom were eventually reinstated. They received pay for play in a JR league which sometimes happened in call ups in CAN, that pay made them lose NCAA eligibility. Also he wasn't a prior player or a team Capt who took the team to the frozen four on more than one occasion, so yeah it's apples and oranges. Has hardly ever happened outside of death or illness in NCAA hockey.
As for coaches fired in season, I'm aware of the following four:
Leon Abbot, BU, 1973-74, 6 games
Mark Morris, Clarkson, 2001-02, 3 games
Tim Watters, MTU, 2000-01, 9 games
Brian Cavanaugh, Canisius, 2005-06, 15 games
Coach Watters was fired for his team's poor results (1-7-1), while the other 3 were fired for other reasons.
SeanBuckton v. National Collegiate Athletic Assn., 436 F. Supp. 1258 (D. Mass. 1977) case opinion from the US District Court for the District of MassachusettsWomen's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971
BU Hockey Games
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I need a kidney; looking for a donor
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Originally posted by vicious View Post
Abbott used an ineligible player and BU was forced to forfeit a bunch of games. There was a smoking gun. Apples and oranges with the present situation.
Buckton and Marzo were reinstated. Decloe left school, but later turned up playing for Holland in the 1980 Olympics at Lake Placid as a full amateur.
Abbott took the fall. A lot of alumni were unhappy that he, as an outsider and coach at RPI, replaced Jack Kelley instead of longtime assistant Bob Crocker. Crocker left for UPenn, and eliminated BU from the 1972-73 playoffs. And Jack Parker replaced Abbott after six games into the 1973-74, when BU won the first of four straight ECAC championships.
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Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
These are both correct statements. In 1972-73 BU had a player, Dick Decloe, declared ineligible and BU had to forfeit 11 games. The following season two sophomores, Bill Buckton and Peter Marzo, were declared ineligible (first by the ECAC, I believe), but they got a court ordered injunction which allowed them to continue to play and finish their careers at BU. The ECAC eventually reinstated them both, but but the NCAA only reinstated Buckton. You can read Buckton v. National Collegiate Athletic Assn., 436 F. Supp. 1258 (D. Mass. 1977) at Justoa.com.
As for coaches fired in season, I'm aware of the following four:
Leon Abbot, BU, 1973-74, 6 games
Mark Morris, Clarkson, 2001-02, 3 games
Tim Watters, MTU, 2000-01, 9 games
Brian Cavanaugh, Canisius, 2005-06, 15 games
Coach Watters was fired for his team's poor results (1-7-1), while the other 3 were fired for other reasons.
Sean
Rossi, my point - Coach Watters aside - is that it generally takes a lot more than just a poor win-loss record to fire a coach mid-season. That's why, for those looking for a coaching change mid-season, it would seem to take something pretty damning to make that happen (note this is not a comment on whether Abbot was treated unfairly, or not).
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Well, we had just about everyone in the lineup this weekend. Big game, big venue, quality opponent. Didn’t matter. Same results. Really no excuses at this point. Trying to figure out BU hockey. Minnesota-Duluth and Minnesota State are kings of the college hockey world. UMass Amherst, Lowell and Northeastern are taking turns as Hockey East’s best team. With our resources (including some of my money)
why can’t we get back in the world of contenders? Hopefully our AD is actively asking that question (it’s his job)
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Originally posted by BU93 View PostWell, we had just about everyone in the lineup this weekend. Big game, big venue, quality opponent. Didn’t matter. Same results. Really no excuses at this point. Trying to figure out BU hockey. Minnesota-Duluth and Minnesota State are kings of the college hockey world. UMass Amherst, Lowell and Northeastern are taking turns as Hockey East’s best team. With our resources (including some of my money)
why can’t we get back in the world of contenders? Hopefully our AD is actively asking that question (it’s his job)Last edited by RossiRules; 11-30-2021, 10:04 PM.
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Originally posted by vicious View Post
Sean, excellent research, as usual. Thank you. Morris was fired for a physical altercation with a player. I am not sure about Cavanaugh.
Rossi, my point - Coach Watters aside - is that it generally takes a lot more than just a poor win-loss record to fire a coach mid-season. That's why, for those looking for a coaching change mid-season, it would seem to take something pretty damning to make that happen (note this is not a comment on whether Abbot was treated unfairly, or not).
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Speaking of $, did you all see the $ and perks Lincoln Riley got from USC. * insert giant eye-bulge emoji here *
Albie isn't going anywhere, but hopefully they are working on who's going to coach the team next year. I want someone with head coaching experience. (And a track record of success.)
And finally, since BU Hockey is a dumpster fire, watch this documentary about ... well ... : ). It's amazing. https://www.netfli*****/title/81026438
It Happened!!!!
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Originally posted by buoldtimer View Post
How much longer do you think that will be the case (transfers and recruits)? Also, does anyone have insights about departures over the Christmas break? I have no information, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were, and I'm not referring to the coach here.a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.
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Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
Levi is a great example of inflated stats as he played in front of a loaded team canada team where an orange cone would have had a .950 save percentage. NU also has played a pretty easy schedule to boot. Levi plays in front of a structured team with what has recently been called the best dman in college hockey in jordan harris. You think that helps? Toss Levi in a BU jersey and he would have the same stats as the Bu goalies.2016 and 2019 HOCKEY EAST CHAMPIONS
2018, 2019 and 2020 BEANPOT CHAMPIONS
MATTHEWS ARENA 1910-Present: THE CATHEDRAL OF COLLEGE HOCKEY
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Originally posted by RossiRules View PostHockey may break even at some schools and probably loses money in 1/2 of the DIV 1 programs in this country. Also most of the schools that sponsor hockey in most consider athletics and accutument to academics not the converse. So you don't go firing coaches.
Some here have implied or outright stated that the schools all lie on their financial reports submitted to the NCAA. I don't believe that, but after compiling the data for the public schools for over a decade I have seen that some schools interpret the categories differently than other schools and therefore comparing them is like comparing different types of apples. And sometimes a schools changes how they interpret a category from year year to the next, but not often. So, I think the financial information does give a pretty good indication of revenue and expenses for the public schools.
Sean
*Revenue excluding student fees, government support and direct & indirect institutional supportWomen's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971
BU Hockey Games
BU Hockey highlights and extras
NCAA Hockey Financials
Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
I need a kidney; looking for a donor
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Originally posted by Thiessen'sBetter View PostI've admittedly only watched BU a few times this year so I won't comment on Commesso, but the "Levi's numbers are only because of the team in front of him" sentiment is very very wrong. He's been spectacular, especially the last month with 4 top 6 forwards out...NU would be under .500 with an average goalie. Seems like every game is 2-1 and he makes 4 or 5 unbelievable saves.
Sean
Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971
BU Hockey Games
BU Hockey highlights and extras
NCAA Hockey Financials
Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
I need a kidney; looking for a donor
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Originally posted by Sean Pickett View PostI believe that the discussion was about the defense in front of Levi, not the offense. A good defense does help a goalie a lot. However, if you say he has made 4 or 5 great saves a game I have no reason to doubt you.
Sean
Northeastern has taken 60 penalties for 134 minutes and 8.4 minutes per game that they are shorthanded.
BU has taken 81!!!!! penalties for 189 minutes and 12.6 minutes per game that they are shorthanded.
For reference - UMass has taken only 42 penalties for 95 total minutes....Umass Lowell 52 penalties...MinnDuluth #1 ranked has 42 penalties...winning hockey is staying out of the box.
BU is shorthanded 33% more time than NU and almost TWICE as much as UMASS!!! The refs aren't to blame its AWFUL discipline and poor accountability from the coach that leads to all these penalties and thus losing hockey games. You can't win at this level giving teams power plays.
BU plays essentially over a half a period per game shorthanded. BU plays 21% of the game shorthanded!!!! Good luck goalies!!!!!Last edited by Lemonade; 12-01-2021, 11:20 AM.
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