no games at penn st,covid strikes again
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Originally posted by walrus View Postno games at penn st,covid strikes againOriginally posted by BobbyBrady
Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year
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Originally posted by Sean Pickett View PostEarned profit/loss. It excludes direct and indirect instutional support, student fees and government support. Bottom line, both sports lose money, but football loses 3x as much as hockey.
Sean
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That’s nice info Sean, well put together, but the idea that 300k is “only” a small amount to Maine is where it goes off the deep end. It adds up to almost $4 million over the 11 seasons. Where the hell else is Maine going to get that kind of scratch? Not from bake sales or golf tournaments or schmoozing alumni that’s for sure
Maine Hockey: I want to believe
43-21-4 (.662) in games I attended over 4 years as a student
104-47-14 (.669) in that time
3x FROZEN FOUR
11-20-2 in games I've attended since. (2-2-1 under Red)
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Originally posted by Sean Pickett View PostThe guarantees they have gotten are really not that much, although football would be a bigger black hole without them. You can see Maine's financials from 2009-20, but if you don't want to take a look here are football's guarantees for 2009-2019. As can be seen when Maine started playing a second FBS team in 2013 (2014 year end) they doubled their guarantee revenue, but it's still only $300-$350 thousand per game.
And Maine's travel expenses to play those two games has to be paid for. Overall Maine football expenses are now over $4 million a season, while hockey is just over $2 million a season. Here are the total expenses and earned P/L for football and hockey:Guarantees 2010 480,000 2011 250,000 2012 375,000 2013 300,000 2014 610,000 2015 350,000 2016 725,000 2017 700,000 2018 600,000 2019 700,000 2020 630,000
The 2020-21 financial reports will start to be available in a few months.Football Hockey Expenses P/L Expenses P/L 2010 3,593,953 -2,619,462 1,683,037 -399,669 2011 3,507,958 -2,707,930 1,838,748 -368,901 2012 3,897,654 -2,729,086 1,972,895 -551,162 2013 3,789,109 -2,965,201 1,966,585 -692,478 2014 4,042,263 -2,693,433 1,928,856 -681,433 2015 3,869,339 -2,768,262 2,029,764 -718,756 2016 4,245,205 -2,773,699 2,137,336 -1,067,521 2017 4,139,692 -2,719,716 2,117,117 -980,208 2018 4,079,694 -2,812,579 2,098,494 -1,031,033 2019 4,353,148 -2,841,563 2,230,922 -1,176,395 2020 4,523,784 -3,193,544 2,161,558 -1,058,900
Sean
Still, it's probably impossible to gauge what offset of the bottom-line is involved via the money that alumni such as myself contribute to the respective programs. (The IRS never checks on MY contributions.) So, the actual numbers are likely more toward the black in both programs.
As amkirby said below, no Maine sport is making any money. Hockey apparently loses less than football, but we old-codger donors still want Maine to play football, and we send our annual check. If the whole deal is about turning a profit, just forget about fielding any sports in Orono in the first place.
We can't be a one-program D-1 school. That ship sailed many years ago. So perhaps keep supporting the only decent mens' program Maine has, while continuing to rebuild the dumpster fire that is hockey..? I'll keep writing checks for THAT!Last edited by Fishman'81; 12-29-2021, 12:23 AM.
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Originally posted by Fishman'81 View PostThanks for running the numbers, Sean. I was hoping that you'd do that.
Still, it's probably impossible to gauge what offset of the bottom-line is involved via the money that alumni such as myself contribute to the respective programs. (The IRS never checks on MY contributions.) So, the actual numbers are likely more toward the black in both programs.
As amkirby said below, no Maine sport is making any money. Hockey apparently loses less than football, but we old-codger donors still want Maine to play football, and we send our annual check. If the whole deal is about turning a profit, just forget about fielding any sports in Orono in the first place.
We can't be a one-program D-1 school. That ship sailed many years ago. So perhaps keep supporting the only decent mens' program Maine has, while continuing to rebuild the dumpster fire that is hockey..? I'll keep writing checks for THAT!
Football Hockey non-directed Overall 2010 322,747 131,665 133,429 1,435,952 2011 375,640 193,601 514,032 1,446,805 2012 527,321 131,592 458,552 1,617,010 2013 325,952 90,361 256,091 1,295,632 2014 508,705 97,078 455,253 1,530,612 2015 524,497 105,001 375,067 1,755,282 2016 513,011 150,002 284,183 1,491,770 2017 522,958 234,746 392,403 1,665,166 2018 448,571 261,746 735,821 2,095,232 2019 461,442 203,194 370,529 1,734,635 2020 465,427 240,050 174,777 1,476,662
Contributions to football have been generally been at least double contributions to hockey, so it has strong financial support. Furthermore, football donations have ranged between 21% and 34% of total contributions each year, while hockey contributions have been between 6% and 16% of total contributions.
As for making money, that is not supposed to be the purpose of college sports (and indeed, the NCAA likes to report revenue with red/pink highlights and expenses with green highlights). And in fact, of the 30 or so pubic schools with D1 hockey only 6 have reported earned profits between 2010 and 2020:
Michigan (2016-20)
Michigan State (2010, 12-13, 16-19)
Minnesota (2018)
Ohio State (2010-18, 20)
Penn State (2016-20)
Wisconsin (2019)
Every other school for every year that they had DI hockey spent more on athletics than they earned, with UConn and UMass having the largest deficits, although Air Force has joined them.
I also agree that a full DI school should support multiple programs, and ones that are competitive, at least within their league or conference. Unfortunately, many schools have lost sight of the purpose of college athletes. They have become focused on trying to have a top DI basketball or FBS football program and the money and school recognition that such a program reaps.
SeanWomen's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971
BU Hockey Games
BU Hockey highlights and extras
NCAA Hockey Financials
Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
I need a kidney; looking for a donor
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Originally posted by Fishman'81 View PostAs amkirby said below, no Maine sport is making any money. Hockey apparently loses less than football, but we old-codger donors still want Maine to play football, and we send our annual check. If the whole deal is about turning a profit, just forget about fielding any sports in Orono in the first place.
We can't be a one-program D-1 school. That ship sailed many years ago. So perhaps keep supporting the only decent mens' program Maine has, while continuing to rebuild the dumpster fire that is hockey..? I'll keep writing checks for THAT!
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Originally posted by AMC View Post
That's fine for you. I swore I'd never give another cent until Maine reinstated men's soccer.
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Originally posted by amkirby10 View PostCare to explain for a still relatively new Black Bear why they cut men's soccer at all? Doesn't seem like a particularly financially strenuous program to support, and all the schools nearby have one. Was it strictly Title IX related? I would still find that odd, but it's probably the most likely scenario.
SeanWomen's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971
BU Hockey Games
BU Hockey highlights and extras
NCAA Hockey Financials
Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
I need a kidney; looking for a donor
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Originally posted by amkirby10 View Post
Care to explain for a still relatively new Black Bear why they cut men's soccer at all? Doesn't seem like a particularly financially strenuous program to support, and all the schools nearby have one. Was it strictly Title IX related? I would still find that odd, but it's probably the most likely scenario.Originally posted by BobbyBrady
Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year
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Originally posted by amkirby10 View Post
Care to explain for a still relatively new Black Bear why they cut men's soccer at all? Doesn't seem like a particularly financially strenuous program to support, and all the schools nearby have one. Was it strictly Title IX related? I would still find that odd, but it's probably the most likely scenario.
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Originally posted by Sean Pickett View PostThe financials do report contributions, both to specific sports and overall, which includes non-directed donations. Here are the reported contributions for Maine for 2010-2020:
Contributions to football have been generally been at least double contributions to hockey, so it has strong financial support. Furthermore, football donations have ranged between 21% and 34% of total contributions each year, while hockey contributions have been between 6% and 16% of total contributions.Football Hockey non-directed Overall 2010 322,747 131,665 133,429 1,435,952 2011 375,640 193,601 514,032 1,446,805 2012 527,321 131,592 458,552 1,617,010 2013 325,952 90,361 256,091 1,295,632 2014 508,705 97,078 455,253 1,530,612 2015 524,497 105,001 375,067 1,755,282 2016 513,011 150,002 284,183 1,491,770 2017 522,958 234,746 392,403 1,665,166 2018 448,571 261,746 735,821 2,095,232 2019 461,442 203,194 370,529 1,734,635 2020 465,427 240,050 174,777 1,476,662
As for making money, that is not supposed to be the purpose of college sports (and indeed, the NCAA likes to report revenue with red/pink highlights and expenses with green highlights). And in fact, of the 30 or so pubic schools with D1 hockey only 6 have reported earned profits between 2010 and 2020:
Michigan (2016-20)
Michigan State (2010, 12-13, 16-19)
Minnesota (2018)
Ohio State (2010-18, 20)
Penn State (2016-20)
Wisconsin (2019)
Every other school for every year that they had DI hockey spent more on athletics than they earned, with UConn and UMass having the largest deficits, although Air Force has joined them.
I also agree that a full DI school should support multiple programs, and ones that are competitive, at least within their league or conference. Unfortunately, many schools have lost sight of the purpose of college athletes. They have become focused on trying to have a top DI basketball or FBS football program and the money and school recognition that such a program reaps.
Sean
Where do programs like Duluth, minnesota. North Dakota, BC, Notre Dame land in the last few years with how much they spend on hockey and their P/L.
D1 school athletics should be a well rounded palate and not just overweighted in a particular sport. I think Maine does a fairly decent job with this particularly in the ladies sports. The mens side needs some help.
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Originally posted by Sean Pickett View PostThe financials do report contributions, both to specific sports and overall, which includes non-directed donations. Here are the reported contributions for Maine for 2010-2020:
Football Hockey non-directed Overall 2010 322,747 131,665 133,429 1,435,952 2011 375,640 193,601 514,032 1,446,805 2012 527,321 131,592 458,552 1,617,010 2013 325,952 90,361 256,091 1,295,632 2014 508,705 97,078 455,253 1,530,612 2015 524,497 105,001 375,067 1,755,282 2016 513,011 150,002 284,183 1,491,770 2017 522,958 234,746 392,403 1,665,166 2018 448,571 261,746 735,821 2,095,232 2019 461,442 203,194 370,529 1,734,635 2020 465,427 240,050 174,777 1,476,662
Contributions to football have been generally been at least double contributions to hockey, so it has strong financial support. Furthermore, football donations have ranged between 21% and 34% of total contributions each year, while hockey contributions have been between 6% and 16% of total contributions.
As for making money, that is not supposed to be the purpose of college sports (and indeed, the NCAA likes to report revenue with red/pink highlights and expenses with green highlights). And in fact, of the 30 or so pubic schools with D1 hockey only 6 have reported earned profits between 2010 and 2020:
Michigan (2016-20)
Michigan State (2010, 12-13, 16-19)
Minnesota (2018)
Ohio State (2010-18, 20)
Penn State (2016-20)
Wisconsin (2019)
Every other school for every year that they had DI hockey spent more on athletics than they earned, with UConn and UMass having the largest deficits, although Air Force has joined them.
I also agree that a full DI school should support multiple programs, and ones that are competitive, at least within their league or conference. Unfortunately, many schools have lost sight of the purpose of college athletes. They have become focused on trying to have a top DI basketball or FBS football program and the money and school recognition that such a program reaps.
Sean
I was a bit surprised to see the above, but when I considered the fact that the 6 Rust-Belt schools you cited play decent to big-time football, a light went on... That's clearly what's pulling the cart, and an Alabama (eg) doesn't have to spend a dime on hockey.
Oh well, we'll likely never see another Winkin baseball program, nor a Skip Chapelle hoops program, nor another Walsh-type deal with hockey at Maine. I'm cautiously optimistic that Barr can drag hockey out of the gutter (and I'll still write them a check or two) but football is the best mens' program at Maine right now, and it's not even close.
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