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  • no games at penn st,covid strikes again
    I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

    Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

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    • Originally posted by walrus View Post
      no games at penn st,covid strikes again
      Would think the Alaska series is probably off as well. Maine has an off weekend in January so maybe can schedule some other non conference games.
      Originally posted by BobbyBrady
      Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
        Earned profit/loss. It excludes direct and indirect instutional support, student fees and government support. Bottom line, both sports lose money, but football loses 3x as much as hockey.

        Sean
        Back in the Oughts hockey revenue was over $2 million, some years over $3. Maine and UNH were the only public schools east of Ann Arbor to consistently make money playing hockey. My how times have changed.

        Comment


        • That’s nice info Sean, well put together, but the idea that 300k is “only” a small amount to Maine is where it goes off the deep end. It adds up to almost $4 million over the 11 seasons. Where the hell else is Maine going to get that kind of scratch? Not from bake sales or golf tournaments or schmoozing alumni that’s for sure

          Maine Hockey: I want to believe
          43-21-4 (.662) in games I attended over 4 years as a student
          104-47-14 (.669) in that time
          3x FROZEN FOUR

          11-20-2 in games I've attended since. (2-2-1 under Red)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
            The guarantees they have gotten are really not that much, although football would be a bigger black hole without them. You can see Maine's financials from 2009-20, but if you don't want to take a look here are football's guarantees for 2009-2019. As can be seen when Maine started playing a second FBS team in 2013 (2014 year end) they doubled their guarantee revenue, but it's still only $300-$350 thousand per game.
            Guarantees
            2010 480,000
            2011 250,000
            2012 375,000
            2013 300,000
            2014 610,000
            2015 350,000
            2016 725,000
            2017 700,000
            2018 600,000
            2019 700,000
            2020 630,000
            And Maine's travel expenses to play those two games has to be paid for. Overall Maine football expenses are now over $4 million a season, while hockey is just over $2 million a season. Here are the total expenses and earned P/L for football and hockey:
            Football Hockey
            Expenses P/L Expenses P/L
            2010 3,593,953 -2,619,462 1,683,037 -399,669
            2011 3,507,958 -2,707,930 1,838,748 -368,901
            2012 3,897,654 -2,729,086 1,972,895 -551,162
            2013 3,789,109 -2,965,201 1,966,585 -692,478
            2014 4,042,263 -2,693,433 1,928,856 -681,433
            2015 3,869,339 -2,768,262 2,029,764 -718,756
            2016 4,245,205 -2,773,699 2,137,336 -1,067,521
            2017 4,139,692 -2,719,716 2,117,117 -980,208
            2018 4,079,694 -2,812,579 2,098,494 -1,031,033
            2019 4,353,148 -2,841,563 2,230,922 -1,176,395
            2020 4,523,784 -3,193,544 2,161,558 -1,058,900
            The 2020-21 financial reports will start to be available in a few months.

            Sean
            Thanks for running the numbers, Sean. I was hoping that you'd do that.

            Still, it's probably impossible to gauge what offset of the bottom-line is involved via the money that alumni such as myself contribute to the respective programs. (The IRS never checks on MY contributions.) So, the actual numbers are likely more toward the black in both programs.

            As amkirby said below, no Maine sport is making any money. Hockey apparently loses less than football, but we old-codger donors still want Maine to play football, and we send our annual check. If the whole deal is about turning a profit, just forget about fielding any sports in Orono in the first place.

            We can't be a one-program D-1 school. That ship sailed many years ago. So perhaps keep supporting the only decent mens' program Maine has, while continuing to rebuild the dumpster fire that is hockey..? I'll keep writing checks for THAT!
            Last edited by Fishman'81; 12-29-2021, 01:23 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
              Thanks for running the numbers, Sean. I was hoping that you'd do that.

              Still, it's probably impossible to gauge what offset of the bottom-line is involved via the money that alumni such as myself contribute to the respective programs. (The IRS never checks on MY contributions.) So, the actual numbers are likely more toward the black in both programs.

              As amkirby said below, no Maine sport is making any money. Hockey apparently loses less than football, but we old-codger donors still want Maine to play football, and we send our annual check. If the whole deal is about turning a profit, just forget about fielding any sports in Orono in the first place.

              We can't be a one-program D-1 school. That ship sailed many years ago. So perhaps keep supporting the only decent mens' program Maine has, while continuing to rebuild the dumpster fire that is hockey..? I'll keep writing checks for THAT!
              The financials do report contributions, both to specific sports and overall, which includes non-directed donations. Here are the reported contributions for Maine for 2010-2020:

              Football Hockey non-directed Overall
              2010 322,747 131,665 133,429 1,435,952
              2011 375,640 193,601 514,032 1,446,805
              2012 527,321 131,592 458,552 1,617,010
              2013 325,952 90,361 256,091 1,295,632
              2014 508,705 97,078 455,253 1,530,612
              2015 524,497 105,001 375,067 1,755,282
              2016 513,011 150,002 284,183 1,491,770
              2017 522,958 234,746 392,403 1,665,166
              2018 448,571 261,746 735,821 2,095,232
              2019 461,442 203,194 370,529 1,734,635
              2020 465,427 240,050 174,777 1,476,662

              Contributions to football have been generally been at least double contributions to hockey, so it has strong financial support. Furthermore, football donations have ranged between 21% and 34% of total contributions each year, while hockey contributions have been between 6% and 16% of total contributions.

              As for making money, that is not supposed to be the purpose of college sports (and indeed, the NCAA likes to report revenue with red/pink highlights and expenses with green highlights). And in fact, of the 30 or so pubic schools with D1 hockey only 6 have reported earned profits between 2010 and 2020:
              Michigan (2016-20)
              Michigan State (2010, 12-13, 16-19)
              Minnesota (2018)
              Ohio State (2010-18, 20)
              Penn State (2016-20)
              Wisconsin (2019)

              Every other school for every year that they had DI hockey spent more on athletics than they earned, with UConn and UMass having the largest deficits, although Air Force has joined them.

              I also agree that a full DI school should support multiple programs, and ones that are competitive, at least within their league or conference. Unfortunately, many schools have lost sight of the purpose of college athletes. They have become focused on trying to have a top DI basketball or FBS football program and the money and school recognition that such a program reaps.

              Sean
              Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
              Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

              BU Hockey Games
              BU Hockey highlights and extras
              NCAA Hockey Financials
              Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
              I need a kidney; looking for a donor

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                As amkirby said below, no Maine sport is making any money. Hockey apparently loses less than football, but we old-codger donors still want Maine to play football, and we send our annual check. If the whole deal is about turning a profit, just forget about fielding any sports in Orono in the first place.

                We can't be a one-program D-1 school. That ship sailed many years ago. So perhaps keep supporting the only decent mens' program Maine has, while continuing to rebuild the dumpster fire that is hockey..? I'll keep writing checks for THAT!
                That's fine for you. I swore I'd never give another cent until Maine reinstated men's soccer.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by AMC View Post

                  That's fine for you. I swore I'd never give another cent until Maine reinstated men's soccer.
                  Care to explain for a still relatively new Black Bear why they cut men's soccer at all? Doesn't seem like a particularly financially strenuous program to support, and all the schools nearby have one. Was it strictly Title IX related? I would still find that odd, but it's probably the most likely scenario.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by amkirby10 View Post
                    Care to explain for a still relatively new Black Bear why they cut men's soccer at all? Doesn't seem like a particularly financially strenuous program to support, and all the schools nearby have one. Was it strictly Title IX related? I would still find that odd, but it's probably the most likely scenario.
                    Here is the official university press release.

                    Sean
                    Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
                    Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

                    BU Hockey Games
                    BU Hockey highlights and extras
                    NCAA Hockey Financials
                    Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
                    I need a kidney; looking for a donor

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by amkirby10 View Post

                      Care to explain for a still relatively new Black Bear why they cut men's soccer at all? Doesn't seem like a particularly financially strenuous program to support, and all the schools nearby have one. Was it strictly Title IX related? I would still find that odd, but it's probably the most likely scenario.
                      They tried for years to cut their way to prosperity and it obviously didn’t work. The whole system has struggled with leadership for a long time. It’s an embarrassment to our state we don’t have a better athletic department. I realize there are other things that are underfunded as well.
                      Originally posted by BobbyBrady
                      Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by amkirby10 View Post

                        Care to explain for a still relatively new Black Bear why they cut men's soccer at all? Doesn't seem like a particularly financially strenuous program to support, and all the schools nearby have one. Was it strictly Title IX related? I would still find that odd, but it's probably the most likely scenario.
                        Because Blake James has never touched anything that didn't turn to ****.

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                        • Originally posted by AMC View Post

                          Because Blake James has never touched anything that didn't turn to ****.
                          Ding ding ding.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                            The financials do report contributions, both to specific sports and overall, which includes non-directed donations. Here are the reported contributions for Maine for 2010-2020:
                            Football Hockey non-directed Overall
                            2010 322,747 131,665 133,429 1,435,952
                            2011 375,640 193,601 514,032 1,446,805
                            2012 527,321 131,592 458,552 1,617,010
                            2013 325,952 90,361 256,091 1,295,632
                            2014 508,705 97,078 455,253 1,530,612
                            2015 524,497 105,001 375,067 1,755,282
                            2016 513,011 150,002 284,183 1,491,770
                            2017 522,958 234,746 392,403 1,665,166
                            2018 448,571 261,746 735,821 2,095,232
                            2019 461,442 203,194 370,529 1,734,635
                            2020 465,427 240,050 174,777 1,476,662
                            Contributions to football have been generally been at least double contributions to hockey, so it has strong financial support. Furthermore, football donations have ranged between 21% and 34% of total contributions each year, while hockey contributions have been between 6% and 16% of total contributions.

                            As for making money, that is not supposed to be the purpose of college sports (and indeed, the NCAA likes to report revenue with red/pink highlights and expenses with green highlights). And in fact, of the 30 or so pubic schools with D1 hockey only 6 have reported earned profits between 2010 and 2020:
                            Michigan (2016-20)
                            Michigan State (2010, 12-13, 16-19)
                            Minnesota (2018)
                            Ohio State (2010-18, 20)
                            Penn State (2016-20)
                            Wisconsin (2019)

                            Every other school for every year that they had DI hockey spent more on athletics than they earned, with UConn and UMass having the largest deficits, although Air Force has joined them.

                            I also agree that a full DI school should support multiple programs, and ones that are competitive, at least within their league or conference. Unfortunately, many schools have lost sight of the purpose of college athletes. They have become focused on trying to have a top DI basketball or FBS football program and the money and school recognition that such a program reaps.

                            Sean
                            I was going to ask if any D1 schools broke even or were in the black with athletics financially.

                            Where do programs like Duluth, minnesota. North Dakota, BC, Notre Dame land in the last few years with how much they spend on hockey and their P/L.

                            ​​​​​​D1 school athletics should be a well rounded palate and not just overweighted in a particular sport. I think Maine does a fairly decent job with this particularly in the ladies sports. The mens side needs some help.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                              The financials do report contributions, both to specific sports and overall, which includes non-directed donations. Here are the reported contributions for Maine for 2010-2020:

                              Football Hockey non-directed Overall
                              2010 322,747 131,665 133,429 1,435,952
                              2011 375,640 193,601 514,032 1,446,805
                              2012 527,321 131,592 458,552 1,617,010
                              2013 325,952 90,361 256,091 1,295,632
                              2014 508,705 97,078 455,253 1,530,612
                              2015 524,497 105,001 375,067 1,755,282
                              2016 513,011 150,002 284,183 1,491,770
                              2017 522,958 234,746 392,403 1,665,166
                              2018 448,571 261,746 735,821 2,095,232
                              2019 461,442 203,194 370,529 1,734,635
                              2020 465,427 240,050 174,777 1,476,662

                              Contributions to football have been generally been at least double contributions to hockey, so it has strong financial support. Furthermore, football donations have ranged between 21% and 34% of total contributions each year, while hockey contributions have been between 6% and 16% of total contributions.

                              As for making money, that is not supposed to be the purpose of college sports (and indeed, the NCAA likes to report revenue with red/pink highlights and expenses with green highlights). And in fact, of the 30 or so pubic schools with D1 hockey only 6 have reported earned profits between 2010 and 2020:
                              Michigan (2016-20)
                              Michigan State (2010, 12-13, 16-19)
                              Minnesota (2018)
                              Ohio State (2010-18, 20)
                              Penn State (2016-20)
                              Wisconsin (2019)

                              Every other school for every year that they had DI hockey spent more on athletics than they earned, with UConn and UMass having the largest deficits, although Air Force has joined them.

                              I also agree that a full DI school should support multiple programs, and ones that are competitive, at least within their league or conference. Unfortunately, many schools have lost sight of the purpose of college athletes. They have become focused on trying to have a top DI basketball or FBS football program and the money and school recognition that such a program reaps.

                              Sean
                              Another very informative post. Thanks.

                              I was a bit surprised to see the above, but when I considered the fact that the 6 Rust-Belt schools you cited play decent to big-time football, a light went on... That's clearly what's pulling the cart, and an Alabama (eg) doesn't have to spend a dime on hockey.

                              Oh well, we'll likely never see another Winkin baseball program, nor a Skip Chapelle hoops program, nor another Walsh-type deal with hockey at Maine. I'm cautiously optimistic that Barr can drag hockey out of the gutter (and I'll still write them a check or two) but football is the best mens' program at Maine right now, and it's not even close.

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                              • Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                                As for making money, that is not supposed to be the purpose of college sports.

                                That was a good one!

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