The Barr Has Been Raised at UMaine

[Fishman'81]

One thing I’m very curious about is what happens with the interest in Maine hockey next year? Six months ago I don’t think many of us would have believed things would have gone so horribly wrong with Covid and obviously it has been a rough season on the ice as well. Will a lot of people give up/move on to other things or will there still be much interest/hope?

Orono being Orono, they'll be some interest in hockey no matter what.

But, if Maine starts to win, the Alfond will fill up in a hurry.

[AMC]

New Mexico is no juggernaut, Colgate is eminently beatable... No chance v. BC in all likelihood, but, again, the FCS selection process doesn't consider the FBS games, unless you win them.

FCS went 12-105 v. FBS this season, with Maine getting one of the 12 wins, and earning $675K in the process.

Why not take the money when the games are essentially irrelevant anyway?

Because if Maine plays two FBS games and loses them, and then goes 5-3 in the CAA, Maine will have a 6-3 FCS record. 6 wins is historically not enough for playoff consideration.

If Maine instead goes 2-1 in the nonconference, and then goes 5-3 in the CAA, Maine will have a 7-3 FCS record, which is close to a lock.

By playing two FBS games, Maine needs to go 6-2 in CAA play to feel comfortable come selection Sunday.

[Fishman'81]

Because if Maine plays two FBS games and loses them, and then goes 5-3 in the CAA, Maine will have a 6-3 FCS record. 6 wins is historically not enough for playoff consideration.

If Maine instead goes 2-1 in the nonconference, and then goes 5-3 in the CAA, Maine will have a 7-3 FCS record, which is close to a lock.

By playing two FBS games, Maine needs to go 6-2 in CAA play to feel comfortable come selection Sunday.

But, as you so often point-out, Maine can use all the sports revenue it can get... Playing (and even losing) v. FBS teams is a reliable cash-stream, and the results of those games generally mean Jack. (Get it, already?)

The CAA will be a dog-fight next year with JMU gone, and 6 wins is definitely a possibility for Maine and a few other teams, in that context.

Maine is an FCS factor, and has been for years and years, while hockey has been moribund for around 10 years now...

Not picking a fight, but I truly don't understand why you (and others) consistently undermine the biggest-profile sport on campus right now. (Football.) I would love to see hockey get back to some level of respectability, but that possibility is just that right now...

A possibility, and nothing more.

[AMC]

But, as you so often point-out, Maine can use all the sports revenue it can get... Playing (and even losing) v. FBS teams is a reliable cash-stream, and the results of those games generally mean Jack. (Get it, already?)

The CAA will be a dog-fight next year with JMU gone, and 6 wins is definitely a possibility for Maine and a few other teams, in that context.

Maine is an FCS factor, and has been for years and years, while hockey has been moribund for around 10 years now...

Not picking a fight, but I truly don't understand why you (and others) consistently undermine the biggest-profile sport on campus right now. (Football.) I would love to see hockey get back to some level of respectability, but that possibility is just that right now...

A possibility, and nothing more.

Because if you are giving up some of your odds to play for a national title in order to make money, you aren't a serious athletic program. I disagree that Maine is a "factor" in FCS- one run to the semifinals (which resulted in an *** kicking), and a few one and dones in the playoffs aren't a "factor," that's an "attendee." Maine is as far away from being able to beat North Dakota State or South Dakota State as Maine hockey is from winning a national title.

I also question the value of playing FCS football, in general. There's value in Maine being nationally competitive against the Michigans, Minnesotas, BC's, etc. of the world. I'm not sure what the University gains by spending late November and December flying to rural Washington or Utah or South Dakota on a week's notice if they make/go far in the FCS playoffs. And by basically saying "sure, we could make the playoffs if we scheduled one FBS team, but that's less important than trying to not lose multiple millions on this sport," the University is admitting as much.

[Wayuphere]

But even if Maine FB does beat a North or South Dakota State, they still won’t ever be tops in their sport. College football supremacy belongs to the Alabamas of the NCAA and Maine will never contend with them. Hockey? Absolutely, they have before and will again play and beat the “Alabamas” of hockey.
It’s an apple and orange comparison.

[BoSox3066]

They need the money. What are you gonna do?

At least the second FCS game, most years, is against a crappy team like UMass or Western Kentucky they can actually beat. Those games have to pay less than a real mauling by a Power 5 team

[BoSox3066]

I looked up the stats, Maine started one FCS game in 2003, made the playoffs 2 times in ten years playing one.

Started playing 2 in 2013, has made the playoffs twice since then in 8 seasons (excluding the 2020 spring covid deal).

Granted the evolving CAA structure is a variable in there, but percentage wise, the extra game hasnt changed their odds much

[amkirby10]

I see both sides of this debate. On the one hand, it's undeniable that football has been probably the best athletic program on campus other than WBB since at least I got to UMaine (2016). They're usually a competitive team in the CAA, haven't had a truly bad season since 1995, and seem to be a rising program that's got something good going on. And, if you take the argument that they'll never win a true national championship in football to its extreme, then the U should cut every sport other than men's hockey, because Maine is never winning a title in football, basketball, baseball, softball, soccer, field hockey, or anything else.

On the other hand, it is true that Maine will always be in the awkward little brother section of D1 football, and they'll never move up to FBS, and if they do, they'll make UConn and UMass look like Alabama and Ohio State. Needing to go and get humilated so they can get cut a check does sit weirdly and leaves a sour taste in your mouth, and needing to do it twice and really hamstring your season is just a huge handicap that leaves very little margin for error. Kind of reminds me of the baseball team playing big programs across the South in early spring every year and starting their season 0-15.

I don't think there's any easy answer.

[Sean Pickett]

They need the money. What are you gonna do?

The guarantees they have gotten are really not that much, although football would be a bigger black hole without them. You can see Maine's financials from 2009-20, but if you don't want to take a look here are football's guarantees for 2009-2019. As can be seen when Maine started playing a second FBS team in 2013 (2014 year end) they doubled their guarantee revenue, but it's still only $300-$350 thousand per game.

	Guarantees
2010	480,000
2011	250,000
2012	375,000
2013	300,000
2014	610,000
2015	350,000
2016	725,000
2017	700,000
2018	600,000
2019	700,000
2020	630,000

And Maine's travel expenses to play those two games has to be paid for. Overall Maine football expenses are now over $4 million a season, while hockey is just over $2 million a season. Here are the total expenses and earned P/L for football and hockey:

	Football			Hockey
	Expenses	P/L		Expenses	P/L
2010	3,593,953	-2,619,462		1,683,037	-399,669
2011	3,507,958	-2,707,930		1,838,748	-368,901
2012	3,897,654	-2,729,086		1,972,895	-551,162
2013	3,789,109	-2,965,201		1,966,585	-692,478
2014	4,042,263	-2,693,433		1,928,856	-681,433
2015	3,869,339	-2,768,262		2,029,764	-718,756
2016	4,245,205	-2,773,699		2,137,336	-1,067,521
2017	4,139,692	-2,719,716		2,117,117	-980,208
2018	4,079,694	-2,812,579		2,098,494	-1,031,033
2019	4,353,148	-2,841,563		2,230,922	-1,176,395
2020	4,523,784	-3,193,544		2,161,558	-1,058,900

The 2020-21 financial reports will start to be available in a few months.

Sean

[amkirby10]

Back in hockey news, according to the team's Instagram page, defenseman Samuel Duerr will be joining the team.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/playe...9/samuel-duerr

[NorthMike]

Sean, what is the P/L?

[NorthMike]

Back in hockey news, according to the team's Instagram page, defenseman Samuel Duerr will be joining the team.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/playe...9/samuel-duerr

A Shattuck StMarys guy recruited in 2020 by Red and company.

[walrus]

Starting this semester? Interesting if so

[Sean Pickett]

Sean, what is the P/L?

Earned profit/loss. It excludes direct and indirect instutional support, student fees and government support. Bottom line, both sports lose money, but football loses 3x as much as hockey.

Sean

[amkirby10]

A Shattuck StMarys guy recruited in 2020 by Red and company.

According to EliteProspects, he's got 1-2-3 in his last 10 games and is +3 in that time.