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The Barr Has Been Raised at UMaine

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  • Originally posted by AMC View Post

    It's no surprise that Maine can only consistently win games in one or two sports when the entire athletic department is operated on a paperclip and pocket lint.

    At some point, the University of Maine needs to decide if it wants to act like it has a Division I athletics program or not. And if the answer is "not" then fine, just bag this whole thing.
    Some people at the university remain convinced that athletics (particularly football) drive financial donations, even though its own internal study in (I think) 2013 found no correlation. Maine (the university and the state) cannot afford athletics the way it is being run. Maybe we can fund football OR ice hockey at the Division I level, but trying to fund both is not working.

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    • Originally posted by ticapnews View Post

      Some people at the university remain convinced that athletics (particularly football) drive financial donations, even though its own internal study in (I think) 2013 found no correlation. Maine (the university and the state) cannot afford athletics the way it is being run. Maybe we can fund football OR ice hockey at the Division I level, but trying to fund both is not working.
      Football has been WAAAY more successful than has hockey for the past 10 years or so.

      Having said that, Maine could just go D-3 altogether and drop many sports, but it won't be allowed to play D-1 hockey as an outlier anymore. That ship has sailed with RPI, Union, Clarkson, St. Lawrence, et al on-board back in the day.

      (Unless they changed the rules again when I was asleep.)

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      • Originally posted by ticapnews View Post

        Some people at the university remain convinced that athletics (particularly football) drive financial donations, even though its own internal study in (I think) 2013 found no correlation. Maine (the university and the state) cannot afford athletics the way it is being run. Maybe we can fund football OR ice hockey at the Division I level, but trying to fund both is not working.
        Last I knew the athletic department fancies themselves a "Northern power" in football, and that the gridiron remains the top priority. A mistake, if you ask me.

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        • UNH and Vermont are the templates....how are they doing it? UNH is struggling in football and hockey but have turned their men's basketball program around and are in the Sweet 16 in men's soccer. Vermont has a very solid men's basketball program but struggles in hockey. They have made multiple memorable trips to the NCAA tourney in men's hoops.....they also have a successful men's soccer program. Neither has baseball....and Vermont did away with football a long time ago. Maine has $110 million to put into facilities.....neither UNH or Vermont has that although Vermont has plans for a new hoops facility.

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          • Originally posted by umhockey91 View Post
            UNH and Vermont are the templates....how are they doing it? UNH is struggling in football and hockey but have turned their men's basketball program around and are in the Sweet 16 in men's soccer. Vermont has a very solid men's basketball program but struggles in hockey. They have made multiple memorable trips to the NCAA tourney in men's hoops.....they also have a successful men's soccer program. Neither has baseball....and Vermont did away with football a long time ago. Maine has $110 million to put into facilities.....neither UNH or Vermont has that although Vermont has plans for a new hoops facility.
            Maine's recent football success has clouded judgement for some I think. Outside of JMU and NDSU, are there any FCS programs making money. Unless Maine becomes a perennial power, which is unlikely, I don’t see the point in dumping money into football, let them play the two FBS games a year so they can stay afloat but beyond that, I don’t really think it’s necessary to funnel money there.
            Hockey is the only sport at UMaine with a realistic shot on the national stage, it’s been done before and we’ve seen schools that are smaller than Maine and with less history become contenders.

            As for yesterday’s game, I thought they played decent and played hard, they just lack scorers right now. Breen was the only guy consistently generating scoring chances with the puck, and that line of Breen, Houle and Mulera showed flashes. I was surprised not to see Morrissey and Poissant in the lineup. I don’t see the point in giving so many minutes to Lindelow and Quinlivan when you have Morrissey and Poissant in the stands. Both those guys have quite a bit of talent. The team is improving though, they can’t score but they do a decent job of protecting their net. The net is Ostman’s for now IMO

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            • Sounds like football coach is headed to UConn as an asst.
              I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

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              • Originally posted by walrus View Post
                Sounds like football coach is headed to UConn as an asst.
                I suspect the UConn money outweighed the opportunity to possibly be in the post season with Maine next year.

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                • Originally posted by walrus View Post
                  Sounds like football coach is headed to UConn as an asst.
                  Like UMass Football, UConn is in the dregs of Division 1 (both are literally Bottom 5 programs).

                  Says a lot that someone with success at UMaine would take a step down to assist at UConn.
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                  • Originally posted by BlackBearFan19 View Post

                    Maine's recent football success has clouded judgement for some I think. Outside of JMU and NDSU, are there any FCS programs making money. Unless Maine becomes a perennial power, which is unlikely, I don’t see the point in dumping money into football, let them play the two FBS games a year so they can stay afloat but beyond that, I don’t really think it’s necessary to funnel money there.
                    Hockey is the only sport at UMaine with a realistic shot on the national stage, it’s been done before and we’ve seen schools that are smaller than Maine and with less history become contenders.
                    Maine football has actually been on the National map for many years now. A Final Four just a few years back. We used to watch them nearly every weekend on DISH, until Covid and Flosports changed the calculus just recently.

                    I won't pretend to know the exact $ involved, but it's hard to imagine that hockey is raking in the bucks, in any case. Hockey has been far worse than football over the past 10 years or so, and has enjoyed pretty-much *zero* National exposure in the process.

                    Before any Maine fan calls for football's head, look at how futile the hockey program has been since TW was fired. Hockey is going to be a complete re-build, while football likely missed the NCAA's by one game, and that was probably due to Fagnano missing the first half of the season. There is still the uncanny ability that football has to recruit excellent talent to Orono.

                    Not so much as far as hockey goes... Not yet, anyway.




                    Last edited by Fishman'81; 11-28-2021, 09:43 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post

                      Like UMass Football, UConn is in the dregs of Division 1 (both are literally Bottom 5 programs).

                      Says a lot that someone with success at UMaine would take a step down to assist at UConn.
                      A bottom 5 program which spends more money than anybody else outside the power conferences. People forget that oh so quickly.
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                      • Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post

                        Like UMass Football, UConn is in the dregs of Division 1 (both are literally Bottom 5 programs).

                        Says a lot that someone with success at UMaine would take a step down to assist at UConn.
                        So short sighted, but shouldn’t expect anything less. Jim Mora has more college and NFL football connections than anyone in Orono. Also, UConn probably offered more money. Says to me someone wants to further their coaching career by taking a step up in pay, conference and connections.


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                        • Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                          Maine football has actually been on the National map for many years now. A Final Four just a few years back. We used to watch them nearly every weekend on DISH, until Covid and Flosports changed the calculus just recently.

                          I won't pretend to know the exact $ involved, but it's hard to imagine that hockey is raking in the bucks, in any case. Hockey has been far worse than football over the past 10 years or so, and has enjoyed pretty-much *zero* National exposure in the process.

                          Before any Maine fan calls for football's head, look at how futile the hockey program has been since TW was fired. Hockey is going to be a complete re-build, while football likely missed the NCAA's by one game, and that was probably due to Fagnano missing the first half of the season. There is still the uncanny ability that football has to recruit excellent talent to Orono.

                          Not so much as far as hockey goes... Not yet, anyway.
                          I question how much of a "national map" there is for FCS football, but that's netiher here nor there. Football, hockey, and baseball aren't going away. Call it "tradition" or "inertia" or "each sport has its own separate constituency that we need to keep happy." Maine is obligated to play men's basketball due to NCAA regulations. So, here we sit. Every program is underfunded. The football head coaching position pays $150,000 which means that at the first chance he is going to grab any other job. The plan for hockey facilities seems to be a cosmetic coat of paint every 15-20 years and then sticking our heads back in the sand. The school can't afford to put out a media guide or buy decent cameras to put games or highlights online.

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                          • Originally posted by amkirby10 View Post

                            Last I knew the athletic department fancies themselves a "Northern power" in football, and that the gridiron remains the top priority. A mistake, if you ask me.
                            Here's every* public school playoff FCS head coach's salary (private school salaries are much harder to find):

                            James Madison: $425,000
                            Kennesaw State: $390,550
                            Northern Iowa: $390,000
                            Sam Houston State: $383,333.41
                            North Dakota State: $380,000 plus bonuses
                            Missouri State: $325,000 plus bonuses
                            Florida A&M: $300,000
                            South Dakota: $300,000
                            South Dakota State: $300,000
                            UC Davis: $272,500
                            Stephen F. Austin: $260,000 plus bonuses
                            Sacramento State: $242,000 plus bonuses
                            East Tennessee State: $225,000 plus bonuses
                            Southern Illinois: $211,000 plus bonuses
                            Montana State: $210,437 plus at least $75,000 in yearly "retention" bonuses/media appearances
                            Eastern Washington: $207,372
                            Tennessee-Martin: $206,710 plus bonuses
                            Montana: $205,000 base salary plus $279,000 in potential additional bonuses

                            If Maine wants to consider itself a "power" at the FCS level, it shouldn't be paying its head coach $50,000 less than the next cheapest playoff team. And spare me the "it's cost of living! Bangor is cheap!" Bangor isn't notably cheaper than noted metros (checks notes) Martin, Tennessee, Cheney, Washington, or Brookings, South Dakota.

                            *Louisiana has some wild-*** public records laws, if you can find Southeastern Louisiana's head coaching salary you get a cookie.

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                            • Football team wins it all, claims “we’re no #1 is not remotely the same as the hockey team winning it all and claiming #1. It’s like a Maine high school varsity team, any sport, winning it all. A small high school is #1 only amongst their peers based on size. They most definitely are not the best in the state. Any claim of “champions” has an asterisk along side it. Same for Maine football. NOT the same for Maine hockey. Fans know the the difference and which championship attracts the attention and funds…
                              That said, nothing wrong with the football team competing for the “top spot” even if it is only a JV caliber accomplishment. I find them entertaining, but the public doesn’t in general. “Get back to me when they beat a Georgia or Alabama” is what I hear…
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                              • Originally posted by Wayuphere View Post
                                Football team wins it all, claims “we’re no #1 is not remotely the same as the hockey team winning it all and claiming #1. It’s like a Maine high school varsity team, any sport, winning it all. A small high school is #1 only amongst their peers based on size. They most definitely are not the best in the state. Any claim of “champions” has an asterisk along side it. Same for Maine football. NOT the same for Maine hockey. Fans know the the difference and which championship attracts the attention and funds…
                                That said, nothing wrong with the football team competing for the “top spot” even if it is only a JV caliber accomplishment. I find them entertaining, but the public doesn’t in general. “Get back to me when they beat a Georgia or Alabama” is what I hear…
                                Well, OK, but when was the last time hockey was Nationally-relevant, again..? I forget. And the same goes for anyone aside from us old gray-beards.

                                I get the general point you're attempting to make, but I don't buy it. Maine wouldn't be an elite D-3 hockey program right now, and FCS football is far better than D-3 hockey, in a relative sense... So football is the better program! ;-)

                                Football is a "loss-leader", I get it. But what Maine sport isn't, anymore?

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