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The Barr Has Been Raised at UMaine

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
    To clarify I don't think we're going to look back and see Red as more successful. I think we'll look back and realize Red built a foundation for Barr's success.
    Serious question - are you related to the Gendrons? What "foundation"?!? I do not wish to speak ill of the passed, and Red always seemed to be a lovely guy to have a beer with and talk hockey ... but honestly, the only "foundation" I'm seeing from his era recently is playing about 4 hours south of the Downeast nowadays, and backing up Tuukka Rask in the playoffs. Am I missing something???
    Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
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    • #47
      Originally posted by Drew S. View Post

      To clarify I don’t think we’re going to look back and see Red as more successful. I think we’ll look back and realize Red built a foundation for Barr’s success.
      uh, no one will think that except for you.

      If Barr is successful, Barr gets full credit. Red left him a ****ty program to rebuild.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by BassAle View Post

        uh, no one will think that except for you.

        If Barr is successful, Barr gets full credit. Red left him a ****ty program to rebuild.
        There are 15 guys on Heisenberg’s list right now who haven’t stepped on campus. Suthers didn’t play any games last year. Let’s see how the next few years play out. I’ve heard Barr say multiple times is that the team is very close and committed to the school. Surely that is worth something.
        Originally posted by BobbyBrady
        Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

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        • #49
          We might need to get the recruit thread going again. This is a really bizarre story and no clue if it’s legit or not https://thejuniorhockeynews.com/opol...-bears-commit/
          Originally posted by BobbyBrady
          Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
            We might need to get the recruit thread going again. This is a really bizarre story and no clue if it’s legit or not https://thejuniorhockeynews.com/opol...-bears-commit/
            "On loan"? I've never heard that in an NCAA context before. I have heard it in an NHL context, but that's far different, and involves actually signed contracts.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by amkirby10 View Post

              "On loan"? I've never heard that in an NCAA context before. I have heard it in an NHL context, but that's far different, and involves actually signed contracts.
              I have a feeling we never see this guy in Orono.

              As for Red laying the foundation, I think he brought a lot of really good kids into Orono. The talent level just wasn’t there. We were never on par with the top teams in hockey East and to be honest, outside of Swayman, we were in the bottom 4 in terms of talent.

              I expect Barr to drastically improve recruiting. The style of hockey will be completely different as well. I don’t agree with the sentiment that Red drove this program into the ground but I think any success Barr has will be due to his own hard work.

              Red was a great man and was a good hockey coach. I don’t think he landed enough talent in his time here and his style of play was outdated for the current times. With that said, he was a positive impact on the kids he recruited to the program and I don’t think there is a lot of dissension in the locker room, which Barr has alluded to. To say he laid the foundation for future success is a stretch, but Barr isn’t walking into a complete dumpster fire either. There are good kids in that locker room who will play hard for Barr.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by BlackBearFan19 View Post

                Red was a great man and was a good hockey coach. I don’t think he landed enough talent in his time here and his style of play was outdated for the current times. With that said, he was a positive impact on the kids he recruited to the program and I don’t think there is a lot of dissension in the locker room, which Barr has alluded to. To say he laid the foundation for future success is a stretch, but Barr isn’t walking into a complete dumpster fire either. There are good kids in that locker room who will play hard for Barr.
                This right here. Red was very approachable, would talk to you about anything. I don't doubt the players loved him. He was a good man and will be remembered as a good man.
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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Drew S. View Post

                  To clarify I don’t think we’re going to look back and see Red as more successful. I think we’ll look back and realize Red built a foundation for Barr’s success.
                  Yup understood, but not sure how it would be analytically measured.
                  Last edited by NorthMike; 05-14-2021, 05:55 PM.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by walrus View Post

                    This right here. Red was very approachable, would talk to you about anything. I don't doubt the players loved him. He was a good man and will be remembered as a good man.
                    Yep, Red will be remembered fondly by many. But I don't believe he built anything but sandcastles - they looked good for a bit but didn't stand up to adversity or scrutiny.
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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
                      Sean, I think the issue with an analysis like yours assumes every coach starts from the same place. That obviously doesn’t happen and I think when we can look at the totality of Red’s work his tenure will look a lot better. As I’ve said before it’s not another the wheat you reap but the seeds you sew.
                      My analysis makes no such assumption, all it does is show how well a coach does after taking over. I think you will agree that Coach Walsh took over a worse program than Coach Gendron did, even if Coach Whitehead had the program headed in the wrong direction. And yet Coach Walsh got his record to 0.500 after 4 seasons and increased his winning percentage for 9 of the next 13 seasons. And look at Coach Carvel at UMass: even you have to admit that he had a worse starting place than Coach Gendron (unless you also think that Coach Micheletto built the foundation Coach Carvel built upon) and yet, in just 4 seasons his winning percentage went from 0.167 to 0.553 and he has won a regular season and tournament league title, as well as a NCAA title.

                      If anything, my analysis hurts those coaches like Coach Whitehead at Maine and Coach Parker at BU who come in and have tremendous success early. Here is a chart showing the cumulative winning percentage for Coaches Parker, Whitehead (Maine), Gasparini (UND) and Bertrand (Cornell):



                      After the early peak (1st season for Coach Bertrand, 2nd for Coach Gasparini, 3rd for Coaches Parker and Whitehead) it was downhill for all but Coach Parker, who was able to bounce back up in season 5 before a downward slide that bottomed out after season 17 and began a modest rise. However, Coaches Bertrand and Whitehead were gone after 12 seasons and Coach Gasparini was gone after 16. Maybe if they had stay they also would have rebounded, but we will never know. On the other hand, coaches who start off poorly and improve most seasons look better in comparison, since they are getting 'better' and not 'worse'.

                      Sean
                      Last edited by Sean Pickett; 05-14-2021, 06:28 PM.
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                      • #56
                        Started watching press conference. They pan to Barr's dad and then one chair over is the mascot. I don't think i can ever recall seeing the mascot sitting next to the podium amongst the actual people involved. Had a good laugh.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by KrbFlint View Post

                          Specific individual recruits aside, the general feeling is that there has been a lack of overall talent on the roster. Guite, as the lead recruiter, has to shoulder a large chunk of the blame. You say "great for recruiting" but it hasn't appeared to translate, for whatever reason.
                          Well, yeah... He didn't recruit. Period.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Drew S. View Post

                            Sean, I think the issue with an analysis like yours assumes every coach starts from the same place. That obviously doesn’t happen and I think when we can look at the totality of Red’s work his tenure will look a lot better. As I’ve said before it’s not another the wheat you reap but the seeds you sew.
                            OMG, give it up already!

                            Red had a pretty decent roster from the get-go, then drove the program into the turf.

                            Please consider the data. Maine was just taking up space after Red brought in his own recruits, and that's an indisputable fact
                            Last edited by Fishman'81; 05-14-2021, 08:58 PM.

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                            • #59
                              Interesting https://goblackbears.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/roster

                              I actually think bringing Ben and Alfie back might make some sense. I know it would be a departure from the norm but as Ben Barr said there is no real playbook for the situation he is in. In one of his interviews he mentioned needing a new strength and conditioning coach. It looks like the volunteer assistant from last year is gone too.
                              Originally posted by BobbyBrady
                              Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
                                Interesting https://goblackbears.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/roster

                                I actually think bringing Ben and Alfie back might make some sense. I know it would be a departure from the norm but as Ben Barr said there is no real playbook for the situation he is in. In one of his interviews he mentioned needing a new strength and conditioning coach. It looks like the volunteer assistant from last year is gone too.
                                I'd be stunned if Guite comes back, given the circumstances. I could possibly see Alfie being retained though, given his work with Swayman.

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