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Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

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  • #31
    Re: Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

    Originally posted by Alaska Hockey View Post
    typical hick..... yap... yap..... yap .......I rest my case.
    hick?

    it was just an idea... nothing else buddy.

    and let me tell you... all these three schools need all the ideas they can get.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

      Originally posted by DrunkTrainPolka View Post
      hick?

      it was just an idea... nothing else buddy.

      and let me tell you... all these three schools need all the ideas they can get.
      DPT, they do need to think outside the box if they want to survive. I'm sure the universities are calling everyone they can to keep their programs functioning. Some people aren't open to participate in thought experiments.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

        Originally posted by TalonsUpPuckDown View Post
        Sean Pickett created a revenue/expense spreadsheet a few years back for all of the public school teams. Each school accounts for revenue and expenses differently so individual numbers may not correlate precisely, but here's what he lists as expenses for the WCHA teams in 2016 (last year data is reported). While I don't vouch for it's accuracy, it's as good as anything I've seen to date.
        Code:
        Team	2016 Expenses*
        MSU	2,362,995
        UAA	2,307,122
        NMU	2,247,306
        MTU	2,245,567
        UA	2,208,390
        BGSU	1,738,879
        BSU	1,671,666
        UAH	1,492,281
        FSU	1,470,188
        LSSU	1,183,949
        
        *Numbers taken from sheet "Yearly Hockey" column "CU - Men's Total Expenses"
        I've heard a few times how my school is "in the middle of the pack" on expenses; this seems to support that.

        https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1119207498

        And FWIW, I don't think it's one single reason this is happening. Nor is it necessarily the same reason(s) for each of the schools involved.
        Let's be honest, it probably has very little to do with the schools themselves and more to do with things that are out of the control of the schools. The instability that was created the last couple of years by the Alaska government and the University of Alabama system can't be easy for the other 7 schools. I have zero doubt in my mind that UAA, UAF and UAH are committed to hockey and are willing to put money towards their programs. I would think UAH would be less of a concern from a stability standpoint, but lets not forget that the Alabama system essentially shut them down a few years ago and the program was saved by a few very dedicated fans and boosters. Now, let's just play devil's advocate for a minute....say the worst did happen this year. We are in July of 2019 and the season starts in 3-4 months and all of a sudden the two Alaska teams are gone from college hockey. That was a realistic possibility for a time. That leaves the other schools in the conference short of 6-8 games for the year and quite possibly each of the next 3 years (2019, 2020, and maybe 2021). This was also a topic of conversation last year and it's hard to believe that it won't be a topic of conversation next year. Now, if you take the emotion out of it, at what point do the other schools say, "we can't stay in a relationship in which we don't know if others are going to walk away and leave us hanging"? At some point the other schools are going to be cold and heartless and think about how they are going to be hurt if this keeps happening.

        Essentially, you're asking the other 7 schools to hang around hoping they don't get hurt. That's a pretty big ask when it seems like it's inevitable that at least 1, if not 2 or 3, of these programs are going to fold at some point. In a perfect world, everyone would support everyone else, but in reality each of the schools has to think of themselves and make sure they survive first. I know this won't be a popular opinion, but, reading the tea leaves, it seems like this has to be what's going through the other Athletic Directors' and University Presidents' minds.
        Mess with the bull, you get the horns.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Bale View Post
          Let's be honest, it probably has very little to do with the schools themselves and more to do with things that are out of the control of the schools. The instability that was created the last couple of years by the Alaska government and the University of Alabama system can't be easy for the other 7 schools. I have zero doubt in my mind that UAA, UAF and UAH are committed to hockey and are willing to put money towards their programs. I would think UAH would be less of a concern from a stability standpoint, but lets not forget that the Alabama system essentially shut them down a few years ago and the program was saved by a few very dedicated fans and boosters. Now, let's just play devil's advocate for a minute....say the worst did happen this year. We are in July of 2019 and the season starts in 3-4 months and all of a sudden the two Alaska teams are gone from college hockey. That was a realistic possibility for a time. That leaves the other schools in the conference short of 6-8 games for the year and quite possibly each of the next 3 years (2019, 2020, and maybe 2021). This was also a topic of conversation last year and it's hard to believe that it won't be a topic of conversation next year. Now, if you take the emotion out of it, at what point do the other schools say, "we can't stay in a relationship in which we don't know if others are going to walk away and leave us hanging"? At some point the other schools are going to be cold and heartless and think about how they are going to be hurt if this keeps happening.

          Essentially, you're asking the other 7 schools to hang around hoping they don't get hurt. That's a pretty big ask when it seems like it's inevitable that at least 1, if not 2 or 3, of these programs are going to fold at some point. In a perfect world, everyone would support everyone else, but in reality each of the schools has to think of themselves and make sure they survive first. I know this won't be a popular opinion, but, reading the tea leaves, it seems like this has to be what's going through the other Athletic Directors' and University Presidents' minds.
          As for the Alaska schools, the threat that was out there a few years ago blew holes in 2 recruiting classes and affected 2 more. Not only did it affect on ice recruiting, but recall the difficulties each went through in their recent coaching searches. Then when it started to look like things were going to start to return to normal, Governor Dunleavy puts them right back in the crosshairs and pulls the trigger, not only blowing up the near futures for hockey, but the rest of both schools’ athletic departments as well. You can’t blame the coaches or school administrations, it falls squarely on the Governor and it crushed the schools’ coaches, athletes and programs in ways he likely never conceived of when kicking his political football.
          "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

            Originally posted by DrunkTrainPolka View Post
            note to self; do not hire GFM for your space mission.

            you don't dream far enough... i stand by my comment!

            the exemption? hence the point of it [cost] being shared...

            have you ever been to AK? i have...

            as a coach or program, to be able to provide students (**** the athlete side of it) an opportunity to be there... hell... like seeing a moose at the anchorage airport parking lot.

            do right! ...or never get to mars.

            GO TECH GOLD!
            I work at NASA in ISS Payload Operations. I'm #2 on the MSFC side from June through the end of next week. I can tell you that no idea is worth crap without execution. I've even got spreadsheets for previous years trying to figure out an ECAC-WCHA schedule interlock that would build the WCHA's PWR and profile. It's hard.

            GFM
            Geof F. Morris
            UAH BSE MAE 2002
            UAHHockey.com

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

              Originally posted by Lost_Husky View Post
              DPT, they do need to think outside the box if they want to survive. I'm sure the universities are calling everyone they can to keep their programs functioning. Some people aren't open to participate in thought experiments.

              You're presuming that these three schools aren't doing these things. Just because it's in private doesn't mean that it's not happening.

              GFM
              Geof F. Morris
              UAH BSE MAE 2002
              UAHHockey.com

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

                Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
                I work at NASA in ISS Payload Operations. I'm #2 on the MSFC side from June through the end of next week. I can tell you that no idea is worth crap without execution. I've even got spreadsheets for previous years trying to figure out an ECAC-WCHA schedule interlock that would build the WCHA's PWR and profile. It's hard.

                GFM
                we would make very good friends...

                ...or in the least have some very good conversations.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

                  Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
                  You're presuming that these three schools aren't doing these things. Just because it's in private doesn't mean that it's not happening.

                  GFM
                  Give that second sentence another read. We agree. I'm sure all three athletic departments are doing all they can to continue/grow their programs.

                  The "thought experiment" comment was in regards to AH.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

                    Originally posted by Lost_Husky View Post
                    Give that second sentence another read. We agree. I'm sure all three athletic departments are doing all they can to continue/grow their programs.

                    The "thought experiment" comment was in regards to AH.
                    I skipped the second sentence. Grrrr, bad me.

                    Thing is, it's a ****ty thought experiment because there are exactly zero incentives to keep it going. I remember when we couldn't get anyone to play here. I remember when we had to play Merrimack in Nashville because they wouldn't come to Huntsville and a promoter up there was willing to put the weekend together (and, I think, took a bath).

                    GFM
                    Geof F. Morris
                    UAH BSE MAE 2002
                    UAHHockey.com

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

                      Originally posted by Lost_Husky View Post
                      The "thought experiment" comment was in regards to AH.
                      That may be a battle you will end up wishing you hadn't entered.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

                        Originally posted by Bale View Post
                        Let's be honest, it probably has very little to do with the schools themselves and more to do with things that are out of the control of the schools. The instability that was created the last couple of years by the Alaska government and the University of Alabama system can't be easy for the other 7 schools. I have zero doubt in my mind that UAA, UAF and UAH are committed to hockey and are willing to put money towards their programs. I would think UAH would be less of a concern from a stability standpoint, but lets not forget that the Alabama system essentially shut them down a few years ago and the program was saved by a few very dedicated fans and boosters. Now, let's just play devil's advocate for a minute....say the worst did happen this year. We are in July of 2019 and the season starts in 3-4 months and all of a sudden the two Alaska teams are gone from college hockey. That was a realistic possibility for a time. That leaves the other schools in the conference short of 6-8 games for the year and quite possibly each of the next 3 years (2019, 2020, and maybe 2021). This was also a topic of conversation last year and it's hard to believe that it won't be a topic of conversation next year. Now, if you take the emotion out of it, at what point do the other schools say, "we can't stay in a relationship in which we don't know if others are going to walk away and leave us hanging"? At some point the other schools are going to be cold and heartless and think about how they are going to be hurt if this keeps happening.

                        Essentially, you're asking the other 7 schools to hang around hoping they don't get hurt. That's a pretty big ask when it seems like it's inevitable that at least 1, if not 2 or 3, of these programs are going to fold at some point. In a perfect world, everyone would support everyone else, but in reality each of the schools has to think of themselves and make sure they survive first. I know this won't be a popular opinion, but, reading the tea leaves, it seems like this has to be what's going through the other Athletic Directors' and University Presidents' minds.
                        This more or less sums up my thoughts regarding the Alaska schools. Twice in 5 years, we spent a Summer wondering if the program will be around 4 months later. I get that the threats to the programs came from outside the university, but they still happened. The only brush the other 7 schools had with losing a program was BGSU around a decade ago. It's a case of "Those that don't learn from history are bound to repeat it."

                        Huntsville is moving forward, albeit slowly. They also had the ax dropped, but they did come forward and put that discussion six feat under since then. It's a tough sell, but if they can get their own building, I would have no qualms about having them in conference long term.
                        It's never too early to start the Pre-game festivities

                        Go Cats!!! GO BLACKHAWKS!

                        Cuck the Fubs... Let's Go WHITE SOX!!!

                        Wildcat Born, Wildcat Bred....

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

                          So, the issue isn’t the lack of money or support for our programs, it’s future uncertainty that necessitated the seven schools to hold clandestine meetings without regard or input from the three institutions involved or even the conference commissioner.

                          Except the Magnificent 7 are now moving to a yet to be determined structure or structures that are fraught with uncertainty. It is more likely that one or two of the Magnificent 7 pull out of whatever agreement is in place and leave the not-so-magnificent remnants fend for themselves, than it was likely UAA, UAF, and UAH dropped hockey.

                          The way this was approached was chickenchit by any standards. We can only hope it blows up in their faces.
                          "Who got the Cup?"
                          UAF UAA UAA UAA UAF UAF UAA UAA UAF UAF UAF UAF UAF UAA UAA UAA UAF UAF UAF UAF UAF UAF UAF UAF UAF UAF UAF

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
                            You're presuming that these three schools aren't doing these things. Just because it's in private doesn't mean that it's not happening.

                            GFM
                            You have missiles.
                            CCT '77 & '78
                            4 kids
                            5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                            1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                            ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                            - Benjamin Franklin

                            Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                            I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

                              Originally posted by joecct View Post
                              You have missiles.
                              Shhhhh.

                              GFM
                              Geof F. Morris
                              UAH BSE MAE 2002
                              UAHHockey.com

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Alaska / UAA : the Strategic, Restructured, Combined 2019-20 Season Thread.

                                Originally posted by DrunkTrainPolka View Post

                                ...or in the least have some very good conversations.

                                All you would be doing is the yooper version of no comprende .
                                Alaska Dispatch .... Doyle Woody
                                UAF made the kind of hockey history on October 10th 2015 that no team wants to claim – the Nanooks became the first NCAA Division I victim of Arizona State.


                                Originally Posted by WeWantMore At least you guys have Packers colors.

                                I Must be Famous ....a School named their program after me

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