Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New WCHA is dead

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: New WCHA is dead

    Originally posted by moose97 View Post
    I largely agree with you, btw, and I misremembered the SCSC weekend. But either way, the NCHC is the one who formed their conference over Pairwise concerns. The nCCHA is, as mentioned, not about the Pairwise. Its about travel costs
    I'm partially in agreement about creation of the NCHC over Pairwise concerns but it's more of a result that a specific reason.

    It was a financial resources decision. The schools that created the NCHC have a history of prioritizing hockey over other sports. And they followed that up with significant monetary support. When the B1G was announced, that left an even number of rich vs less rich schools. The rich schools were seeing they were losing the pull they were used to in the WCHA and they didn't want to be controlled by schools that weren't as interested in increased travel costs, bigger budgets, and more expenses.

    Generally, yes you can say that those less rich schools are going to traditionally be lower in the pairwise. Year-to-year, that's usually the case, although there are obviously going to be exceptions each year as teams fluctuate and do well.

    Comment


    • Re: New WCHA is dead

      Originally posted by cF[Authentic] View Post
      I'm partially in agreement about creation of the NCHC over Pairwise concerns but it's more of a result that a specific reason.

      It was a financial resources decision. The schools that created the NCHC have a history of prioritizing hockey over other sports. And they followed that up with significant monetary support. When the B1G was announced, that left an even number of rich vs less rich schools. The rich schools were seeing they were losing the pull they were used to in the WCHA and they didn't want to be controlled by schools that weren't as interested in increased travel costs, bigger budgets, and more expenses.

      Generally, yes you can say that those less rich schools are going to traditionally be lower in the pairwise. Year-to-year, that's usually the case, although there are obviously going to be exceptions each year as teams fluctuate and do well.
      I agree with this. The above example about Bemidji moving from 12 to 17 (or whatever it is) by flipping one win to a loss......That's going to happen with almost any school in the 10-20 range. The problem isn't a loss against a lower team. The RPI calculation doesn't distinguish between these 2 things:
      1) Win at home at #20 in the RPI, loss at home against #59 in the RPI or...
      2) Loss at home against #20, win against #59.

      The real issue there is that margins are soooo tight in that range of the RPI. Basically, wherever you are right now, if your RPI is between .52 and .535, and you win your next 2 games, your RPI will rise to about .53 or .545. So, there really isn't much conclusion which can be formed about that.

      Now, in general, the WCHA teams right now will start the conference season lower in the PWR rankings, because of the usual sub-.500 non-con record. So, there is 'drag' on the top schools because the lower schools don't have as good of results. But, it's not the losses, per se, which pull the Mankato's and Bemidji's down. It's the schedule in the first place.

      And, that is a discussion for the 'accounting guys', because the reality is that all the tiny tweeks in the RPI calc are more evidence that it's a poor system. As has been said on this site numerous times, the best system would be a modified KRACH (I call it the Bradley-Terry method), with the further parameter of a nationwide home-ice advantage. And, you can find that under KASA on the RPI (the school) website.

      However, as stated above, the move by NCHC wasn't because of PWR. It was because of being the schools which emphasize hockey to the extent they do...

      Comment


      • Re: New WCHA is dead

        Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
        The biggest problem for the Selective Seven is that they're not good enough to destroy UAH and UAA. Want to not hurt your PWR? Finish the job.

        It hasn't been a problem for Minnesota State to drill UAH game after game. It wasn't for Tech until they began to lose their edge.

        Bowling Green gave a truly terrible UAH team their first WCHA win. Bemidji State gave them their second.

        There's a reason that the WCHA isn't that great — its best teams aren't good enough to withstand losing to one of the truly terrible teams in this league.

        UAH has sucked for 15 years, outside of last season. The run of 20 losses is unending; they'll hit 30 this year unless they do another sniper job. And yet UAH picks off a second-tier WCHA team or two every season.

        Do the incoming CCHA teams think that beating the crap out of each other is going to fly? That having LSSU and FSU to kick around is going to be enough? These people have never had a mathematics book with them in the same room for the last decade, much less had one hit them upside of the head or attempt a rectal incursion, both of which are sorely needed.

        [Note: if you accept UAH as the eighth team, I'll delete this post.]

        GFM
        This is hockey. Rarely does a team, even a horrid team, go 0-fer on the season. Every league is going to have its bottom feeder(s).

        Tech fans know what it is like to be in UAH's situation and know a thing or two about math. The rest of the CCHA-7 thinks 2 plus 2 always makes 5.

        Comment


        • Re: New WCHA is dead

          Originally posted by moose97 View Post
          @thebrain - what are the odds they play football at the new MLS soccer stadium? Isn't that just down the road?
          Zero. The Loons fanbase would be livid if Minnesota United decided to have a renter on their ground. A game is one thing but a whole schedule is another animal. I may be wrong but I don't see it happening.
          Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
          dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
          wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

          Comment


          • Re: New WCHA is dead

            Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
            Zero. The Loons fanbase would be livid if Minnesota United decided to have a renter on their ground. A game is one thing but a whole schedule is another animal. I may be wrong but I don't see it happening.
            Yes, because decisions are made based on what fans want. If its financially beneficial enough for them to resod the field 6 times a year and host UST football, the fans will just have to get over it.
            Current NCAA D-I rinks I've been to:

            AHA:
            B1G: UMinn, UWisc
            ECAC:
            HEA: UMass, Notre Dame
            NCHC: UMD, UND, SCSU, WMU
            WCHA: UAH, BSU, FSU, LSSU, MSU, MTU, NMU

            Inactive: BSU, UMD, UND, NMU, Notre Dame

            Comment


            • Re: New WCHA is dead

              Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
              Also… no more D-II play ups unless the NCAA reclassifies hockey like they did with the women’s side.
              Where are you getting this? DII playups are allowed in hockey because NCAA doesn't sponsor a championship unless Im missing some rule change?
              Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

              Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

              Comment


              • Re: New WCHA is dead

                Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                Where are you getting this? DII playups are allowed in hockey because NCAA doesn't sponsor a championship unless Im missing some rule change?
                I think that's a grandfather issue. The more appropriate statement may have been that no additional DII playups will be allowed.
                bigmrg74: "You can't drink the day away if you don't start early!"
                SledDog: "UncleRay seems to be the most sensible one here tonight."
                All great men are dead and I'm not feeling well.
                A Margarita! in every hand and another Margarita! in the other hand!

                And stay off the lawn!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                  Where are you getting this? DII playups are allowed in hockey because NCAA doesn't sponsor a championship unless Im missing some rule change?
                  Didn't they change that a while ago, that you can only participate in the D1 championship if you're a full D1 school now unless you've been grandfathered in?

                  Comment


                  • Re: New WCHA is dead

                    My problem with this is that even bad teams win games...when the rest of the conference plays the bottom 60+ times, the bottom is bound to win 6+ times minimum. Going 4-0 against a bad team is hard. And when a conference consistently has 3 teams in the bottom 10 in pairwise and the rest of the country has 30 games against those teams and the WCHA has 84, its going to hurt because all those wins count very little in PWR and a loss is crushing.
                    Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                    Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

                    Comment


                    • Re: New WCHA is dead

                      Originally posted by amkirby10 View Post
                      Didn't they change that a while ago, that you can only participate in the D1 championship if you're a full D1 school now unless you've been grandfathered in?
                      for D3, not for D2...because NCAA doesn't support a D2 Hockey Championship, NCAA can't stop a D2 school from starting a D1 hockey team.
                      Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                      Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

                      Comment


                      • Re: New WCHA is dead

                        DII schools that are not currently playing DI can't play up. Not sure whether they can play down to DIII as there are several DII schools playing in DIII leagues that don't compete in the tourneys.
                        bigmrg74: "You can't drink the day away if you don't start early!"
                        SledDog: "UncleRay seems to be the most sensible one here tonight."
                        All great men are dead and I'm not feeling well.
                        A Margarita! in every hand and another Margarita! in the other hand!

                        And stay off the lawn!

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X