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2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

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  • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

    Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
    The Warden and I are sooo delighted that we didn't drive 3-hours to see that snooze-fest. God knows, it was bad enough on TV.
    Since I am only about an hour (driving) from Buffalo I made the trip both Thursday and Saturday. I still had a great time catching up with old friends and meeting new people who share common interests!

    Comment


    • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

      Originally posted by Hoover View Post
      I agree - we would have seen a game reminiscent of the NHL's "dead-puck era" of the late '90's when teams were playing conservatively and only tried to score on turnovers by the opposition (no offensive interest or creativity = boring hockey!).

      Since I am only about an hour (driving) from Buffalo I made the trip both Thursday and Saturday. I still had a great time catching up with old friends and meeting new people who share common interests!
      I'd hate to go back to that era, but it already seems that we have.

      If there a disincentive for young talent to play college hockey, or to stick-around for more than a year or two, we're stuck with older Junior washouts.

      Not a lot of fun to watch.

      Comment


      • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

        Originally posted by chickod View Post
        Championships won by Western schools: 52
        Championships won by Eastern schools: 19

        Longest winning streak by Western schools: 12 (1955-66)
        Longest winning streak by Eastern schools: 4 (2012-15)

        # of NCAA titles won by NCHC since league was formed: 4 out of 6

        Hockey East schools need to change their recruiting strategy. Period.
        HE this year had:
        - National coach of the year
        - National player of the year
        - National rookie of the year
        - National goalie of the year
        - Two FF teams
        - One NCG team

        There's definitely a gap between HE and the NCHC, and there's some tweaks some programs need to make but the gap is not nearly as large as you make it seem.
        ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        Comment


        • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

          Originally posted by CanalPark View Post
          As someone who has been going to UMD games since the early 80's as a little kid, I don't know how we've gotten to where we are today. There were some dark years between 1986, 1993, and 2003-2004, until we finally got it going in 2009. Personally, first one was surreal and last year was really a validation for the program, but last night was just enjoying the ride. We are going to lose some guys early and Sandelin deserves a shot at the NHL, so who knows where it all goes from here. Back to my original question I've thought about how we went from being a second tier program and one described by my Gopher friends as their ugly stepchild, to now the best program in the nation and this is what I have as factors:
          1. The obvious Sandelin figuring it out. There were some valleys in his tenure and I think the lowest was pulling scholarships from guys and still feel it was a bad look.
          2. A shift towards Minnesota kids and not just older Canadian players who didn't develop much from their freshman year.
          3. Amsoil Arena feels like a big time venue as opposed to the DECC.
          4. The biggest factor in my opinion the development of the Hermantown program. That school has been the gift that has just kept on giving us top tier talent.

          I hope St. Cloud and Mankato wins one soon!
          Had season tix in 1993. I wondered why the hell I spent that money.
          Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
          Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

          Comment


          • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

            Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
            I'd hate to go back to that era, but it already seems that we have.

            If there a disincentive for young talent to play college hockey, or to stick-around for more than a year or two, we're stuck with older Junior washouts.

            Not a lot of fun to watch.
            Not seeing a higher trend in MN kids skipping college than at any time in recent past. Some data to consider:

            -Draft picks playing in college hockey and comparisons the past 20 years
            -# of players in the NHL with college experience, average # of seasons played for the same time period
            -Etc.

            As for it being a "dead puck" era they really need to consider reducing the size of the goalie equipment. Would be curious to see average # of goals scored per game the past 10 years as well to validate if scoring is trending downward.

            [edit]

            Sorry for the lack of formatting but if teams are actually trending older are they finding more success because of it?:

            Rank Team Ave Age PWR KRACH
            1 Alaska-Anchorage 22y 9m 60 60
            2 Canisius 22y 8m 54 54
            3 Minnesota State 22y 7m 3 3
            4 American Int'l 22y 7m 31 40
            5 Army 22y 6m 52 56
            6 Bemidji State 22y 5m 35 35
            7 Air Force 22y 5m 43 48
            8 Sacred Heart 22y 5m 40 49
            9 Alabama-Huntsville 22y 5m 58 57
            10 Mercyhurst 22y 4m 53 55
            11 Northern Michigan 22y 3m 24 27
            12 RIT 22y 3m 36 46
            13 Nebraska-Omaha 22y 3m 47 37
            14 Michigan Tech 22y 2m 42 42
            15 Lake Superior 22y 2m 22 21
            16 Robert Morris 22y 2m 49 52
            17 Ferris State 22y 2m 57 53
            18 Bentley 22y 2m 39 47
            19 Maine 22y 2m 30 30
            20 Colgate 22y 2m 50 45
            21 Merrimack 22y 1m 55 51
            22 Ohio State 22y 1m 9 7
            23 Alaska 22y 1m 48 43
            24 Arizona State 22y 1m 10 15
            25 Dartmouth 22y 0m 37 38
            26 Brown 22y 0m 25 28
            27 Rensselaer 21y 11m 51 44
            28 Holy Cross 21y 11m 56 58
            29 Colorado College 21y 11m 23 23
            30 Penn State 21y 11m 16 12
            31 Clarkson 21y 11m 5 9
            32 Niagara 21y 11m 45 50
            33 St. Cloud State 21y 11m 1 1
            34 Union 21y 11m 18 20
            35 Vermont 21y 11m 41 36
            36 Yale 21y 10m 29 31
            37 Miami 21y 10m 38 34
            38 Mass.-Lowell 21y 10m 21 22
            39 Bowling Green 21y 9m 15 18
            40 Northeastern 21y 9m 6 6
            41 Western Michigan 21y 9m 17 13
            42 North Dakota 21y 6m 19 19
            43 Massachusetts 21y 6m 4 4
            44 Cornell 21y 6m 11 11
            45 Minnesota-Duluth 21y 6m 2 2
            46 Princeton 21y 5m 44 39
            47 St. Lawrence 21y 5m 59 59
            48 New Hampshire 21y 5m 34 33
            49 Michigan State 21y 5m 32 29
            50 Quinnipiac 21y 4m 7 8
            51 Providence 21y 4m 14 16
            52 Harvard 21y 3m 13 14
            53 Minnesota 21y 3m 20 17
            54 Notre Dame 21y 1m 12 10
            55 Connecticut 21y 1m 46 41
            56 Michigan 20y 11m 28 25
            57 Denver 20y 11m 8 5
            58 Boston College 20y 10m 33 32
            59 Wisconsin 20y 10m 27 24
            60 Boston University 20y 6m 26 26

            Denver was 4th youngest, 8th in PWR and 4th in KRACH.
            Quinnipiac 11th youngest, 7th and 8th.
            UMD 16th, 2nd and 2nd.
            Cornell 17th, 11th and 11th
            UMASS 18th, 4th and 4th.

            MSUM and OSU (3rd oldest and 22nd) that finished Top 10 for PWR and KRACH.

            Finally leaving out MSUM the average age rank for Top 16 teams in PWR was 41st oldest out of 60 teams - in other words on the younger end of the spectrum.
            Last edited by Slap Shot; 04-15-2019, 11:59 AM.

            Comment


            • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

              Originally posted by brassbonanza View Post
              HE this year had:
              - National coach of the year
              - National player of the year
              - National rookie of the year
              - National goalie of the year
              - Two FF teams
              - One NCG team

              There's definitely a gap between HE and the NCHC, and there's some tweaks some programs need to make but the gap is not nearly as large as you make it seem.
              no no.. let's count all the umich titles won in 1950 throw in mtu too

              go west!!
              a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

              Comment


              • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

                Originally posted by CanalPark View Post
                As someone who has been going to UMD games since the early 80's as a little kid, I don't know how we've gotten to where we are today. There were some dark years between 1986, 1993, and 2003-2004, until we finally got it going in 2009. Personally, first one was surreal and last year was really a validation for the program, but last night was just enjoying the ride. We are going to lose some guys early and Sandelin deserves a shot at the NHL, so who knows where it all goes from here. Back to my original question I've thought about how we went from being a second tier program and one described by my Gopher friends as their ugly stepchild, to now the best program in the nation and this is what I have as factors:
                1. The obvious Sandelin figuring it out. There were some valleys in his tenure and I think the lowest was pulling scholarships from guys and still feel it was a bad look.
                2. A shift towards Minnesota kids and not just older Canadian players who didn't develop much from their freshman year.
                3. Amsoil Arena feels like a big time venue as opposed to the DECC.
                4. The biggest factor in my opinion the development of the Hermantown program. That school has been the gift that has just kept on giving us top tier talent.

                I hope St. Cloud and Mankato wins one soon!
                Its pretty obvious that they are the most successful program in the past decade.
                1953 - 2009 (65 years): 3 conference titles, 3 conference tournament titles, 5 NCAA appearances, 1 NCAA runner up, 2 frozen fours, 4 hobey bakers
                2009 - 2019 (10 years): 3 conference tournament titles (1 wcha, 2 nchc), 9 NCAA appearances, 4 frozen fours, 3 NCAA championships, 1 NCAA runner up, 1 hobey baker

                So what happened? The most glaring stat in my opinion is the 9 NCAA tournaments in the last decade compared to only 5 in the previous 65 years. I think the new arena built in 2010 has helped immensely. The DECC was a wreck. AMSOIL Arena is a new, modern arena that recruits want to play in. You could also argue that their move from the WCHA to the NCHC in 2013 has helped too. The old WCHA was obviously a great conference but it had doormat teams every year. The NCHC doesn't have annual doormat teams. So maybe that move forced them to get better. Just my 2 cents.

                Comment


                • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

                  Originally posted by ThePowerConference View Post
                  Its pretty obvious that they are the most successful program in the past decade.
                  1953 - 2009 (65 years): 3 conference titles, 3 conference tournament titles, 5 NCAA appearances, 1 NCAA runner up, 2 frozen fours, 4 hobey bakers
                  2009 - 2019 (10 years): 3 conference tournament titles (1 wcha, 2 nchc), 9 NCAA appearances, 4 frozen fours, 3 NCAA championships, 1 NCAA runner up, 1 hobey baker

                  So what happened? The most glaring stat in my opinion is the 9 NCAA tournaments in the last decade compared to only 5 in the previous 65 years. I think the new arena built in 2010 has helped immensely. The DECC was a wreck. AMSOIL Arena is a new, modern arena that recruits want to play in. You could also argue that their move from the WCHA to the NCHC in 2013 has helped too. The old WCHA was obviously a great conference but it had doormat teams every year. The NCHC doesn't have annual doormat teams. So maybe that move forced them to get better. Just my 2 cents.
                  Lol. The old WCHA was the best conference in the nation year after year. If you don’t think there are doormats, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
                  Code:
                  As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                  College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                  BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                  Originally posted by SanTropez
                  May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                  Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                  I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                  Originally posted by Kepler
                  When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                  He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                  Comment


                  • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

                    Anchorage, Michigan Tech, and even Duluth were doormats in that conference for years and years. Heck, Anchorage and Michigan Tech are STILL doormats in the new WCHA and its clearly worse than it was prior to 2013.

                    Comment


                    • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

                      Had to chuckle at the headline on uscho about it being too soon to determine low attendance at frozen four. Prices are just too high, especially if you are flying in and booking a hotel room. 2003 hangover. Don't know how much has changed in Downtown Buffalo, but in 2003 there was not much happening. Our two best meals during the weekend were out in the burbs near our hotel. They knew. Why else would I have received about 50 emails and 10 phone calls urging me to get my tickets.

                      Comment


                      • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

                        I honestly didn’t have a problem with Buffalo. We had a great time. Hell, I couldn’t even drink this week and I still had fun. (Thankfully my self-imposes exile ends today and when I get home my GF and I can enjoy a glass from of one of the bottles of wine I picked up.)

                        We’re planning a return trip outside of college hockey. The vineyards just inside Canada would make for a fantastic trip. The wines I got a tiny sip of were all tremendous. We didn’t get to do much of the falls since it was iced over. A return trip would definitely include that.

                        I thought the wings were a massive letdown. But then again, I live five minutes away from D-spot so it’s going to be an uphill battle. The best we got were actually in Toronto so 🤷*♂️
                        Code:
                        As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                        College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                        BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                        Originally posted by SanTropez
                        May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                        Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                        I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                        Originally posted by Kepler
                        When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                        He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                        Comment


                        • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

                          I'm glad that you had a good trip and enjoyed the city. A lot can change in 16 years. I didn't hate the city. Saw the falls. We had a good time. Just thought the downtown area was kind of dull at that time.

                          Comment


                          • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

                            Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                            I honestly didn’t have a problem with Buffalo. We had a great time. Hell, I couldn’t even drink this week and I still had fun. (Thankfully my self-imposes exile ends today and when I get home my GF and I can enjoy a glass from of one of the bottles of wine I picked up.)

                            We’re planning a return trip outside of college hockey. The vineyards just inside Canada would make for a fantastic trip. The wines I got a tiny sip of were all tremendous. We didn’t get to do much of the falls since it was iced over. A return trip would definitely include that.

                            I thought the wings were a massive letdown. But then again, I live five minutes away from D-spot so it’s going to be an uphill battle. The best we got were actually in Toronto so ��*♂️
                            We stayed in the Burbs and had great local food in the burbs at the local establishments (no national chains), parking was cheap when compared to the Northeast, and the people were great. We drove up to Toronto and stopped at the falls on the way up (20 Canadian to park in Canada to look at waterfalls? A little nuts). The Canadian wine country does look interesting if you are into that....

                            I liked the arena and the couple of bars around the arena.
                            Yes I am the former member known as Zlax45

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ThePowerConference View Post
                              Its pretty obvious that they are the most successful program in the past decade.
                              1953 - 2009 (65 years): 3 conference titles, 3 conference tournament titles, 5 NCAA appearances, 1 NCAA runner up, 2 frozen fours, 4 hobey bakers
                              2009 - 2019 (10 years): 3 conference tournament titles (1 wcha, 2 nchc), 9 NCAA appearances, 4 frozen fours, 3 NCAA championships, 1 NCAA runner up, 1 hobey baker

                              So what happened? The most glaring stat in my opinion is the 9 NCAA tournaments in the last decade compared to only 5 in the previous 65 years. I think the new arena built in 2010 has helped immensely. The DECC was a wreck. AMSOIL Arena is a new, modern arena that recruits want to play in. You could also argue that their move from the WCHA to the NCHC in 2013 has helped too. The old WCHA was obviously a great conference but it had doormat teams every year. The NCHC doesn't have annual doormat teams. So maybe that move forced them to get better. Just my 2 cents.
                              I'm gonna borrow this stat for Twitter if that's okay.
                              tUMD Hockey

                              "And there is a banana running around the DECC." "Well you don't see that every day..."

                              Comment


                              • Re: 2019 Frozen Four: NCHC vs. Hockey East

                                Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                                Not seeing a higher trend in MN kids skipping college than at any time in recent past. Some data to consider:

                                -Draft picks playing in college hockey and comparisons the past 20 years
                                -# of players in the NHL with college experience, average # of seasons played for the same time period
                                -Etc.

                                As for it being a "dead puck" era they really need to consider reducing the size of the goalie equipment. Would be curious to see average # of goals scored per game the past 10 years as well to validate if scoring is trending downward.

                                [edit]

                                Sorry for the lack of formatting but if teams are actually trending older are they finding more success because of it?:

                                Rank Team Ave Age PWR KRACH
                                1 Alaska-Anchorage 22y 9m 60 60
                                2 Canisius 22y 8m 54 54
                                3 Minnesota State 22y 7m 3 3
                                4 American Int'l 22y 7m 31 40
                                5 Army 22y 6m 52 56
                                6 Bemidji State 22y 5m 35 35
                                7 Air Force 22y 5m 43 48
                                8 Sacred Heart 22y 5m 40 49
                                9 Alabama-Huntsville 22y 5m 58 57
                                10 Mercyhurst 22y 4m 53 55
                                11 Northern Michigan 22y 3m 24 27
                                12 RIT 22y 3m 36 46
                                13 Nebraska-Omaha 22y 3m 47 37
                                14 Michigan Tech 22y 2m 42 42
                                15 Lake Superior 22y 2m 22 21
                                16 Robert Morris 22y 2m 49 52
                                17 Ferris State 22y 2m 57 53
                                18 Bentley 22y 2m 39 47
                                19 Maine 22y 2m 30 30
                                20 Colgate 22y 2m 50 45
                                21 Merrimack 22y 1m 55 51
                                22 Ohio State 22y 1m 9 7
                                23 Alaska 22y 1m 48 43
                                24 Arizona State 22y 1m 10 15
                                25 Dartmouth 22y 0m 37 38
                                26 Brown 22y 0m 25 28
                                27 Rensselaer 21y 11m 51 44
                                28 Holy Cross 21y 11m 56 58
                                29 Colorado College 21y 11m 23 23
                                30 Penn State 21y 11m 16 12
                                31 Clarkson 21y 11m 5 9
                                32 Niagara 21y 11m 45 50
                                33 St. Cloud State 21y 11m 1 1
                                34 Union 21y 11m 18 20
                                35 Vermont 21y 11m 41 36
                                36 Yale 21y 10m 29 31
                                37 Miami 21y 10m 38 34
                                38 Mass.-Lowell 21y 10m 21 22
                                39 Bowling Green 21y 9m 15 18
                                40 Northeastern 21y 9m 6 6
                                41 Western Michigan 21y 9m 17 13
                                42 North Dakota 21y 6m 19 19
                                43 Massachusetts 21y 6m 4 4
                                44 Cornell 21y 6m 11 11
                                45 Minnesota-Duluth 21y 6m 2 2
                                46 Princeton 21y 5m 44 39
                                47 St. Lawrence 21y 5m 59 59
                                48 New Hampshire 21y 5m 34 33
                                49 Michigan State 21y 5m 32 29
                                50 Quinnipiac 21y 4m 7 8
                                51 Providence 21y 4m 14 16
                                52 Harvard 21y 3m 13 14
                                53 Minnesota 21y 3m 20 17
                                54 Notre Dame 21y 1m 12 10
                                55 Connecticut 21y 1m 46 41
                                56 Michigan 20y 11m 28 25
                                57 Denver 20y 11m 8 5
                                58 Boston College 20y 10m 33 32
                                59 Wisconsin 20y 10m 27 24
                                60 Boston University 20y 6m 26 26

                                Denver was 4th youngest, 8th in PWR and 4th in KRACH.
                                Quinnipiac 11th youngest, 7th and 8th.
                                UMD 16th, 2nd and 2nd.
                                Cornell 17th, 11th and 11th
                                UMASS 18th, 4th and 4th.

                                MSUM and OSU (3rd oldest and 22nd) that finished Top 10 for PWR and KRACH.

                                Finally leaving out MSUM the average age rank for Top 16 teams in PWR was 41st oldest out of 60 teams - in other words on the younger end of the spectrum.
                                That was a interesting post; nice job. Where did you dig that up?

                                Yeah, maybe I listened to Bucci and Melrose harp-upon the 23+ guys on UMD, but they probably don't have that right , either.

                                One thing I've noticed while watching D-3 for 19 years is that the 24 YO's often comprise the 1st and 2nd lines, and get much more TOI than the young guys. That might skew the average-age data in a meaningful way, or it might not.

                                Still, is any other NCAA sport this old, overall?
                                Last edited by Fishman'81; 04-15-2019, 09:30 PM.

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