Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

I'm curious what you midwesterners think would be good "west" and "midwest" sites. I know they obviously have to bid but taking that out of it, what would be good for you guys?

Twin Cities and Detroit are the only major cities with multiple teams nearby. Denver to a lesser extent. Not sure what other 6-15,000 seat arenas they have nearby, or if we can only use Xcel/Little Ceasar’s.

Beyond that, I’m curious if any of the rinks around Chicago could ever get a look. Not close to many teams (Wisconsin and Notre Dame are slightly close, but that’s pretty much it), but verrrrry easy to get to by plane.

[cetihcra]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

Twin Cities and Detroit are the only major cities with multiple teams nearby. Denver to a lesser extent. Not sure what other 6-15,000 seat arenas they have nearby, or if we can only use Xcel/Little Ceasar’s.

Beyond that, I’m curious if any of the rinks around Chicago could ever get a look. Not close to many teams (Wisconsin and Notre Dame are slightly close, but that’s pretty much it), but verrrrry easy to get to by plane.

Denver area options: 1stBank Center (7500; Broomfield, CO; Had a CHL team a while back), Budweiser Event Center (5289; Loveland, CO; Current AHL tenant), Denver Coliseum (8140; Denver, CO; Had a CHL team for a couple years recently. Building is older than dirt (1951)).

Once CC builds their home arena, Broadmoor World Arena will probably host regionals occasionally. Other than that, I doubt you'll see anybody bid for a regional at any of the above front range arenas.

r

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

MN got screwed. Wait, wrong thread.

Don't like the sites? Get your city/school to bid on it. Period.

100% this. I get a laugh out of Pennsylvania being a midwest regional, but the answer is simple. We need more teams bidding.

[davyd83]

Twin Cities and Detroit are the only major cities with multiple teams nearby. Denver to a lesser extent. Not sure what other 6-15,000 seat arenas they have nearby, or if we can only use Xcel/Little Ceasar’s.

Beyond that, I’m curious if any of the rinks around Chicago could ever get a look. Not close to many teams (Wisconsin and Notre Dame are slightly close, but that’s pretty much it), but verrrrry easy to get to by plane.

Mikwaukee has potential to be a good Regional site. The AHL Milwaukee Admirals moves into UWMilwaukee Panther Arena (the former Mecca) and a lot of work has been done there and it now seats about 9900 for hockey. It’s a very reasonable drive for the Minnesota schools. Wisconsin, most of the Michigan and Ohio schools are all within a day’s drive. Great city and plenty of bars, restaurants and hotels within walking distance of the arena.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

They should just do like football in Europe and crown a champion at the end of the regular season. No tournaments, no playoffs. Congratulations St Cloud. Now we're all spared three weeks of whining.

I'm in.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

Minnesota State was the 4th team. To say the place wasn't half full is far too kind. As Notre Dame was sleepwalking through their 17-1 loss to St.Cloud (OK it just seemed that bad, I think it might have been 5-1) I got tremendously bored and counted the "crowd." Twice. Once late in the second period and once early in the third period. Both times I counted around 800 people. The boxscore attendance for that game is sheer fantasy. No way 3000 people paid inflated NCAA regional ticket prices and then did not show up. They made up the number. It was a complete disaster.

For the life of me I can't imagine why anyone bids on an NCAA regional. Anyone who has ever read the host manual knows why I think that. You have to guarantee the NCAA a minimum amount of money and if you don't sell enough tickets or merchandise to do so, you pay out of your own pocket. After you reach the minimum guarantee, it isn't like you get to keep the rest. No, you have to share most of the revenue you generated with the NCAA. After you give them their cut of left over revenue after you met the minimum, hopefully you have enough left over to pay all of the expenses. If not, your loss. If by some miracle you actually then still have some money left over, the sharing ain't over yet. You STILL have to share some of it with the NCAA.

Notre Dame has hosted two of these and the first was awful, in Fort Wayne and even with Miami and Michigan, no one showed up. They got smart when they hosted again at the Compton, which the NCAA allowed because due to their greed and the extreme niche status of our sport. They charged their entire season ticket base $45 for NCAA tickets. They generated nearly $100,000 doing so. But due to Notre Dame crapping the bed that season, Notre Dame was golfing while their rink was hosting. Did fans get a refund? Of course not. The games were still played. By my count there weren't a dozen season ticket holders in the building for both games. As anyone with eyes knows, 95% of the fans out there are almost exclusively fans of their team, not of the sport. Years ago I remember going to plenty of conference or NCAA tournament events in different sports with multiple games and 4 or 8 teams. You often saw plenty of people stay for the whole event, or at the very least I would see basketball fans stay for at least 2 of four games. Not anymore. And people spending less time in the building means fewer concessions get sold.

For me, if I'm in the building I'd rather have packed stands and a great atmosphere. And that means campus sites for higher seeds. But I also know if there were twice as many sites, and the tournament wasn't single elimination the TV coverage would suffer greatly. It isn't perfect now, but it allows you to watch at least parts of all the games, and most or all of most of them. It's a great three days, in my opinion and the play far outclasses the men's basketball tournament. Our tournament has become one of the best things going, with the mix of teams that can win, and all of the upsets. 1500 people in an 8000 seat arena sucks, but 99% of us will watch this on TV and not in person, so I have come to accept it.

Excellent post

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

I think ultimately travel is the only major factor for these things.

Having SCSU in St Paul doesn’t make or break numbers, but having the Gophers there sure does. See also: Wisconsin in Green Bay, Michigan in Grand Rapids, etc.

Might as well add the Sioux in there. They travel better than most teams. A pestilence upon the cities. But at least they spend their hard-earned beet money here.

[Biddco]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

Denver area options: 1stBank Center (7500; Broomfield, CO; Had a CHL team a while back), Budweiser Event Center (5289; Loveland, CO; Current AHL tenant), Denver Coliseum (8140; Denver, CO; Had a CHL team for a couple years recently. Building is older than dirt (1951)).

Once CC builds their home arena, Broadmoor World Arena will probably host regionals occasionally. Other than that, I doubt you'll see anybody bid for a regional at any of the above front range arenas.

r

I heard a rumor that Denver bid on a regional in the Denver area. Perhaps that will become a site?

Good question. Tough one because, as EODS notes, almost no Western schools are that close to each other. Kato's 2 closest opponents are both over an hour away, and in different conferences. The upside to that is that we're used to driving more than 90 minutes to see a game.

I really liked Sioux Falls last year. A number of schools are at least as close as NoDak, and could host there. Other possibilities:
Des Moines - Wells Fargo is home to an AHL team
Quad Cities - Hosted an ECHL team until this year. Hotels, amenities perhaps not as good as other sites.
Rockford, IL - Has the IceHogs. Rockford isn't my favorite town in the world, but it's no worse than Toledo or Worcester.
Green Bay - Home of the USHL's Gamblers. I know it's been tried before. Would really need Wisco or a UP team for attendance
Rosemont - Home of the Chicago Wolves, and very accessible with its proximity to O'Hare.

These are good suggestions, although I beileve Green Bay is out because they host the Wisconsin Girls State Basketball Tournament.

I don't know why other teams don't try to host at the X as well. The Gophers are busy with other sports to host but it's available so why not?

[davyd83]

I heard a rumor that Denver bid on a regional in the Denver area. Perhaps that will become a site?


These are good suggestions, although I beileve Green Bay is out because they host the Wisconsin Girls State Basketball Tournament.

I don't know why other teams don't try to host at the X as well. The Gophers are busy with other sports to host but it's available so why not?

You’re right. Green Bay is unavailable.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Mikwaukee has potential to be a good Regional site. The AHL Milwaukee Admirals moves into UWMilwaukee Panther Arena (the former Mecca) and a lot of work has been done there and it now seats about 9900 for hockey. It’s a very reasonable drive for the Minnesota schools. Wisconsin, most of the Michigan and Ohio schools are all within a day’s drive. Great city and plenty of bars, restaurants and hotels within walking distance of the arena.

Travel for non-Badger fans isn’t a gimme, but it would probably be somewhere between Madison and Green Bay for attendance success.

That said: it’s been a very well reviewed location for Frozen fours (rightfully so, I love downtown Milwaukee) and the UWM Arena is across the street from where the Bradley Center once stood.

In fact, I have other, more deeply absurd ideas for what might work in Milwaukee: https://twitter.com/exileondaytonst/status/1110888635463843840?s=21

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

Actual averages for regional attendance since we went to 16 teams for the 2003 tourney:

City	Games	Avg. Attendance
Albany, NY	15	4613
Allentown, PA	3	6702
Amherst, MA	3	3562
Ann Arbor, MI	3	6792
Bridgeport, CT	15	6623
Cincinnati, OH	9	4837
Colorado Springs, CO	6	5881
Denver, CO	3	11183
Fargo, ND	6	5265
Fort Wayne, IN	3	3823
Grand Forks, ND	3	11266
Grand Rapids, MI	15	4404
Green Bay, WI	9	5161
Madison, WI	3	9917
Manchester, NH	21	7360
Minneapolis, MN	9	8764
Providence, RI	12	6425
Rochester, NY	3	3765
Sioux Falls, SD	3	8000
South Bend, IN	3	3982
st. Louis, MO	3	5024
St. Paul, MN	12	7625
Toledo, OH	3	2812
Worcester, MA	27	7090
Grand Total	192	6330

I understand these are boxscore numbers but I have to believe that numbers at Notre Dame were at least similar to other regionals, and the number 3982 had no basis in reality as far as butts in seats. It is, on the other hand, a believable number if we talk tickets sold. I was at all three games and can accurately estimate the number of people in the building with one of my eyes closed. There were perhaps 1500 in there on the first day when the place was most full, from the 3rd period of the first game through the 1st period of the second. The final was attended by perhaps 1200. But keep in mind as I posted elsewhere, Notre Dame season ticket holders were required to purchase tickets, so around 2200 tickets were sold that way. And also as I posted elsewhere I saw perhaps a dozen of the regulars in the crowd, and at the time I recognized, at least by face, many hundreds of our season ticket base. People just don't want to watch anyone but their own team.

[Kepler]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

Regionals are fine except hosts are bullsh-t.

[TeamPoland]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

Shootin from the hip here.
How about we assign semi-permanent regions for the west and midwest, but rotate them.
Here is a plan, just an idea.
West regional rotates between fargo and target center(mpls). Midwest region rotates between excel (stp) and any location in wisc/mich/ohio/indiana depending on what school(s) host. The west regional in fargo is all und. When it rotates to target duluth and kato host. The midwest in excel is hosted by gophers and scsu. When rotates out to the 4 states schools can open bid (keeping 1 location somewhat open). Und in Fargo is obvious, they wont get every year, but every other. Umd and kato have target center. They were picked due to location, different conferences, and 1 team has history of a championship. Gophers and scsu to seperate umd and scsu(same conf) with gophs having the championships. This would help to reduce cost for all schools, provide logical centered locations(allentown?) and hopefully provide(eventually) decent attendance. They would never fill the big arenas got it, but we need to do something instead of whinning. This option is feasible with cooperation and patience.
You may go ahead and shhot it up.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

That’s more or less how it works out east. There’s generally five sites that see regionals on a somewhat regular basis, with a few other locations here and there.

That said, there isn’t really a good solution for the difference in density (for lack of a better term) of teams out here.

[TeamPoland]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

Agreed. In my scenario colorado teams will always travel, not that i hate them, just trying to find the sweet spot. I just think with how mamy creative minds we have out there we could at least find a semi-solution. Not great, but acceptable.