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Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

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  • Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

    Originally posted by TeamPoland View Post
    I just think with how mamy creative minds we have out there we could at least find a semi-solution. Not great, but acceptable.
    Welcome back my friend, to thread that never ends. We're so glad you could attend. Come inside, come inside.

    Appreciate your attempt to be creative with the Permanent Sites idea. And you're correct, lots of good people have participated in this conversation -- both in this thread & over the years.

    The issue endures because the problem is so daunting; at least in the Western half of the College Hockey world. A nice summary from davyd83:

    Originally posted by davyd83 View Post
    One of the problems the Regionals face, in any format, is that a good percentage of their target market has just spent money on the conference tournaments. Only a certain percentage can afford both their conference tourneys, then make a last minute trip to regionals, especially if a flight is involved. And of those that can, they’re more likely to wait and see if their team makes the Frozen Four.
    Leading some of us to believe that the first round games should held on campus sites.

    Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
    Not saying “higher seed hosts” is the answer (it isn’t)...
    But in the spirit of creativity, would you consider letting Conference Champs host? In previous editions of this thread, I've laid out this idea in considerable detail. With your indulgence, here's how my format would have played out in 2019:

    Organizing The Tournament Field
    1. Home ice is awarded to the 6 tournament champions, plus the top 2 teams at-large teams in the Pairwise.
    2. Seed the Home teams #1 through #8, according to their Final Pairwise score.
    3. The remaining at-large teams are the Visitors. Seed them #9 through #16, again according to Pairwise scores.
    4. Pairings maximize bracket integrity: #1 vs. #16; #2 vs. #15; and so on.
    5. Trades are allowed for the purpose of avoiding intra-conference match-ups. But no trades are needed in 2019.

    2019 First Round Pairings
    #16 Bowling Green @ #1 St. Cloud State University
    # 9 Quinnipiac @ #8 American International College


    #13 Cornell @ #4 UMass Amherst
    #12 Arizona State @ #5 Clarkson


    #15 Providence @ #2 Minnesota-Duluth
    #10 Denver @ #7 Notre Dame


    #14 Harvard @ #3 Minnesota State
    #11 Ohio State @ #6 Northeastern



    Possible Second Round Sites
    Gold & Purple Finals the following Saturday in St. Paul.
    Red & Maroon Finals the following Sunday in Boston.


    I truly believe that this format would create great excitement at the 8 host schools, fill lots of seats, and make for a wonderful two rounds of hockey. It's also my belief that the conference tournaments would be greatly enhanced, given the additional prize of NCAA Home Ice.

    My two cents; FWIW. If anyone wants to discuss further, I'd be glad to do so. Otherwise, I'll keep the peace & just enjoy this weekend's telecasts.

    Comment


    • Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

      @evegoe: I've seen questions about NCAA Regional requirements & confirmed some info.

      A financial guarantee of $150k is required to host. After $150k+expenses covered, 80% goes to NCAA, 20% to host.

      Also, host needs a 5,000+ seat arena w/playing conditions of championship caliber.
      CCT '77 & '78
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      - Benjamin Franklin

      Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

      I want to live forever. So far, so good.

      Comment


      • Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

        Originally posted by joecct View Post
        @evegoe: I've seen questions about NCAA Regional requirements & confirmed some info.

        A financial guarantee of $150k is required to host. After $150k+expenses covered, 80% goes to NCAA, 20% to host.

        Also, host needs a 5,000+ seat arena w/playing conditions of championship caliber.
        Was just gonna post this. And Vegoe is in the know. Trusted source.
        Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
        Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

        Comment


        • Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

          No wonder no one bids...
          "If you leave ignorance and stupidity alone, ignorance and stupidity will think it's ok."
          -Gallagher

          R.I.P.
          Grandpa G. ~ Feb 11, 1918-Oct. 6, 1999
          Grandma ~ Jan 2004
          Dad ~ Nov. 4, 1958-April 21, 2008
          Grandpa S. ~ June 21, 1932-November 11, 2013

          SCSU 2015-16 scoring by class through 40 games
          Seniors: 210 points (71G, 139A) from 5 players
          Juniors: 39 points (8G, 31A) from 4 players
          Sophomores: 99 points (49G, 50A) from 5 players
          Freshmen: 129 points (43G, 86A) from 8 players

          Comment


          • Originally posted by The Rube View Post
            Was just gonna post this. And Vegoe is in the know. Trusted source.
            The handbook for every championship are readily available on the Mothwr Ship’s website. The spatial requirements are also quite extensive. It’s an interesting read.

            r

            Comment


            • Originally posted by pgb-ohio View Post
              Welcome back my friend, to thread that never ends. We're so glad you could attend. Come inside, come inside.

              Appreciate your attempt to be creative with the Permanent Sites idea. And you're correct, lots of good people have participated in this conversation -- both in this thread & over the years.

              The issue endures because the problem is so daunting; at least in the Western half of the College Hockey world. A nice summary from davyd83:

              Leading some of us to believe that the first round games should held on campus sites.

              But in the spirit of creativity, would you consider letting Conference Champs host? In previous editions of this thread, I've laid out this idea in considerable detail. With your indulgence, here's how my format would have played out in 2019:

              Organizing The Tournament Field
              1. Home ice is awarded to the 6 tournament champions, plus the top 2 teams at-large teams in the Pairwise.
              2. Seed the Home teams #1 through #8, according to their Final Pairwise score.
              3. The remaining at-large teams are the Visitors. Seed them #9 through #16, again according to Pairwise scores.
              4. Pairings maximize bracket integrity: #1 vs. #16; #2 vs. #15; and so on.
              5. Trades are allowed for the purpose of avoiding intra-conference match-ups. But no trades are needed in 2019.

              2019 First Round Pairings
              #16 Bowling Green @ #1 St. Cloud State University
              # 9 Quinnipiac @ #8 American International College


              #13 Cornell @ #4 UMass Amherst
              #12 Arizona State @ #5 Clarkson


              #15 Providence @ #2 Minnesota-Duluth
              #10 Denver @ #7 Notre Dame


              #14 Harvard @ #3 Minnesota State
              #11 Ohio State @ #6 Northeastern



              Possible Second Round Sites
              Gold & Purple Finals the following Saturday in St. Paul.
              Red & Maroon Finals the following Sunday in Boston.


              I truly believe that this format would create great excitement at the 8 host schools, fill lots of seats, and make for a wonderful two rounds of hockey. It's also my belief that the conference tournaments would be greatly enhanced, given the additional prize of NCAA Home Ice.

              My two cents; FWIW. If anyone wants to discuss further, I'd be glad to do so. Otherwise, I'll keep the peace & just enjoy this weekend's telecasts.
              One of the big problems is arena availability, For instance, the Verizon Center in Mankato, MN has a concert tonight.
              "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

              Comment


              • Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

                I don't know if this is true, but it's my perception that arenas built nowadays are in use pretty much 365 days a year. I don't know that an economic model allows for a 50-100 million dollar building to sit idle for very many days a year.

                I think that is one of the reasons keeping the "regional" system in place but moving to a top-4 seeds host model is not being pursued. There are so many rinks that would have trouble accommodating 4 teams, and especially on short notice. Some pretty good programs probably fall into that group. If we were to require all 60 teams to either be able to host 4 teams in the event they are a 1 seed, or find a suitable alternative, I doubt that is possible. There is no way Ferris State is going to pay to block out Van Andel for 3 or 4 days every March in the event they needed it. You'd have to pay the venue enough to sit idle in situations where you don't use it because it isn't like they could secure alternate, paying customers for something on just a few days notice.

                I like having 16 teams. I like single elimination. I think top 4 seeds hosting regionals might be the only way we have to consistently generate both revenue and excitement (at least for one game in each region) AND keep at least most of the current TV availability. I don't know how to do it. The women do it for basketball, but basketball teams are half the size and don't have nearly the equipment requirements. That alone makes it a bit easier for a basketball team to host, but I would assume there are at least a few teams who have a realistic shot at hosting first and second round games that play in sub-standard spaces. Does anyone here know what those teams might do?

                Comment


                • Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

                  Originally posted by cetihcra View Post
                  The handbook for every championship are readily available on the Mothwr Ship’s website. The spatial requirements are also quite extensive. It’s an interesting read.

                  r
                  Those docs are definitely interesting. I've always enjoyed reading the FF Participant's Manual myself.
                  Originally posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010
                  The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

                    Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
                    I don't know if this is true, but it's my perception that arenas built nowadays are in use pretty much 365 days a year. I don't know that an economic model allows for a 50-100 million dollar building to sit idle for very many days a year.

                    I think that is one of the reasons keeping the "regional" system in place but moving to a top-4 seeds host model is not being pursued. There are so many rinks that would have trouble accommodating 4 teams, and especially on short notice. Some pretty good programs probably fall into that group. If we were to require all 60 teams to either be able to host 4 teams in the event they are a 1 seed, or find a suitable alternative, I doubt that is possible. There is no way Ferris State is going to pay to block out Van Andel for 3 or 4 days every March in the event they needed it. You'd have to pay the venue enough to sit idle in situations where you don't use it because it isn't like they could secure alternate, paying customers for something on just a few days notice.

                    I like having 16 teams. I like single elimination. I think top 4 seeds hosting regionals might be the only way we have to consistently generate both revenue and excitement (at least for one game in each region) AND keep at least most of the current TV availability. I don't know how to do it. The women do it for basketball, but basketball teams are half the size and don't have nearly the equipment requirements. That alone makes it a bit easier for a basketball team to host, but I would assume there are at least a few teams who have a realistic shot at hosting first and second round games that play in sub-standard spaces. Does anyone here know what those teams might do?
                    I don't know how you solve the short notice scheduling issue if you want to have home site hosting in the first round. I will say one of the big problems the NCAA has with NCAA playoff hockey attendance is going up against basketball. I remember in 1992, NMU was playing Michigan in Detroit (JLA) and it was up against a Michigan NCAA Tournament basketball game. JLA should have been packed with Michigan fans, but it was virtually empty. The Michigan fans that were there hung out in the concourse watching the basketball game. (Okay, NMU did get their ***** handed to them).
                    Look at this weekend. Big weekend for college hockey, but all anyone is talking about is the sweet 16 in basketball. I am not disrespecting basketball, but clearly hockey can't compete against it for fan interest. I realize there is no simple solution here, and any solution is fought with holes, but is is worthy of discussion.
                    “They are a **** site better than the U.S. Army, at least we know that they will be there in the morning.”
                    – Lewis B. Chesty Puller
                    when a journalist asked him about being surrounded by 22. enemy divisions

                    Comment


                    • Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

                      Originally posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
                      No wonder no one bids...
                      That was my exact first thought after seeing that.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

                        But yet schools do bid so what is their reasoning for doing it and what do they have to gain from doing it?
                        Obviously if they make the tournament they are then in a regional in their home state but what else?

                        Comment


                        • Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

                          Originally posted by Hockeybuckeye View Post
                          But yet schools do bid so what is their reasoning for doing it and what do they have to gain from doing it?
                          Obviously if they make the tournament they are then in a regional in their home state but what else?
                          For the good of the game, mostly (I imagine).

                          They still stand to make a little money...if they sell 5000 tickets at $100, after the NCAA's cut they clear $70k, not including concessions. Not a monster payday, but not entirely negligible for some athletic departments.

                          Who knows?

                          r

                          Comment


                          • Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

                            Originally posted by devildog View Post
                            but clearly hockey can't compete against it for fan interest.
                            Then why do they try? That's what bothers me. For example, they moved the Frozen Four back a week to avoid the BB Final Four. To me, that extra week kills a lot of momentum (not to mention it goes up against the Masters, which many here don't care about but it affects me when I have to travel to the FF - I can't see both). Besides, typically that only applies to a small sample of schools (mostly B1G schools). I mean, I don't think St. Lawrence, Colgate, any of the Ivy League schools, or even any of the Hockey East schools (except for Connecticut) are going to the Final Four anytime soon. Neither is Colorado College, North Dakota, Denver or St. Cloud. Hockey is a niche sport and they should trying to RETAIN those of us who consider it our primary sport instead of appeasing everyone else.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

                              Alcohol being served here in Manchester. Good luck to arena staff dealing with UMass fans.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

                                So many Harvard fans in Manchester. All that red is blinding.

                                Oh...those are empty seats...

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