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Michigan State Hockey 202?-202?

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  • wsummers
    replied
    Originally posted by FLHockeyMom View Post
    The announcement of the initial recruiting class of 5 has me wondering if Cole brings in another dman to complement impressive recruit Gucciardi. We have somewhat of a logjam at the position, particularly if Sr. dman Tommy Miller returns for his COVID year, and Cesana doesn't make the jump to the pros (not likely IMO). I just noticed Zane Demsey no longer shows as an MSU commit on the Dubuque USHL line chart, so he's apparently out of contention although Heisenberg doesn't reflect his decommit yet. Demsey's Dubuque teammate and fellow dman Feenstra might be an option. Or Basgall from the Lancers who's younger and has slightly better offensive stats (in Feenstra's defense, Dubuque is a bit challenged at the moment). I'm also interested to see if rarely used dman Dybicz makes the cut (my guess is a transfer is in his future).
    I don’t see very many seniors taking advantage of the 5th covid year this year unless they want a graduate degree. Otherwise they are likely to play pro hockey. I’ve mentioned Combs because he is a graduate student and he may need another year to finish his degree. I’ve always thought Dybicz was mostly an insurance player for next year in case we lose more than just Miller.

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  • FLHockeyMom
    replied
    The announcement of the initial recruiting class of 5 has me wondering if Cole brings in another dman to complement impressive recruit Gucciardi. We have somewhat of a logjam at the position, particularly if Sr. dman Tommy Miller returns for his COVID year, and Cesana doesn't make the jump to the pros (not likely IMO). I just noticed Zane Demsey no longer shows as an MSU commit on the Dubuque USHL line chart, so he's apparently out of contention although Heisenberg doesn't reflect his decommit yet. Demsey's Dubuque teammate and fellow dman Feenstra might be an option. Or Basgall from the Lancers who's younger and has slightly better offensive stats (in Feenstra's defense, Dubuque is a bit challenged at the moment). I'm also interested to see if rarely used dman Dybicz makes the cut (my guess is a transfer is in his future).

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  • wsummers
    replied
    Originally posted by FLHockeyMom View Post

    Right, this is where things come back down to reality. Based on performance to date, I would not be asking back any senior Fs other than perhaps Lewandowski and Combs (sorry, Apap, IMO your FOWs don't override your shortcomings). Next logical men up are somewhat uninspiring: the aforementioned Maatta (more of a defensive forward) and Wallace (arguably trending up since a trade to the Phantoms #freshstart); Dan Russell (MSU legacy, need I say more?); and Tiernan Shoudy. It's a shame Carter Mazur spurned MSU for Denver as he'd be a good addition.
    Thanks, I had forgotten Russell was in this class. Russell and Wallace seem to be having decent years (Wallace only since switching teams) offensively. As you mentioned, if Maatta would be brought in it would mainly be for killing penalties and on a checking line. As for Shoudy, I expect him to spend next year back in the USHL.
    Last edited by wsummers; 02-12-2021, 12:30 PM.

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  • FLHockeyMom
    replied
    Originally posted by wsummers View Post
    ,

    i agree this does appear to be the best class he has had to date. If no underclassman jumps there is room for up to 3 more forwards. One or two of those spots could be filled by 5th year players with Combs probably the most likely. Winter Wallace and Joel Maatta are also likely to be added as long as they have decent USHL years.
    Right, this is where things come back down to reality. Based on performance to date, I would not be asking back any senior Fs other than perhaps Lewandowski and Combs (sorry, Apap, IMO your FOWs don't override your shortcomings). Next logical men up are somewhat uninspiring: the aforementioned Maatta (more of a defensive forward) and Wallace (arguably trending up since a trade to the Phantoms #freshstart); Dan Russell (MSU legacy, need I say more?); and Tiernan Shoudy. It's a shame Carter Mazur spurned MSU for Denver as he'd be a good addition.

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  • wsummers
    replied
    ,
    Originally posted by FLHockeyMom View Post

    No surprise here as three of the five are OAs and, as a whole, these are the recruits who are the most D1 ready. While I expect the OAs to have lofty stats, I admit this is an uptick from prior recruiting classes and agree that Cole has reason to be optimistic. Now let's see how he rounds out the class.
    i agree this does appear to be the best class he has had to date. If no underclassman jumps there is room for up to 3 more forwards. One or two of those spots could be filled by 5th year players with Combs probably the most likely. Winter Wallace and Joel Maatta are also likely to be added as long as they have decent USHL years.

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  • FLHockeyMom
    replied
    Originally posted by wsummers View Post
    First 5 signings for next year have been announced.

    https://msuspartans.com/news/2021/2/...r-2021-22.aspx
    No surprise here as three of the five are OAs and, as a whole, these are the recruits who are the most D1 ready. While I expect the OAs to have lofty stats, I admit this is an uptick from prior recruiting classes and agree that Cole has reason to be optimistic. Now let's see how he rounds out the class.

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  • wsummers
    replied
    First 5 signings for next year have been announced.

    https://msuspartans.com/news/2021/2/...r-2021-22.aspx

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  • John J. MacInnes
    replied
    Originally posted by Johnny Danger View Post
    dennis cesana is the team's leading scorer. As a defenseman. means, there's not too much offense from the offense ;-)
    That's not necessarily always true. John-Michael Liles led the team in scoring in two straight seasons with guys like Adam Hall and Jim Slater on those rosters.

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  • FLHockeyMom
    replied
    Originally posted by wsummers View Post

    Cesana was a flip from Army, the K twins from Wisconsin, Mattson from North Dakota, Combs from BSU. Incoming Sophomores Davidson from UMassAmherst and Middendorf from CC. Middendorf and Davidson are leading their teams in scoring, but as 20 year olds they should...we’ll see if it carries over next year.

    I’m not as down on Cole as you seem to be. He has had a couple top recruits who never made it to campus. My biggest disappointment is he hasn’t so far been able to draw guys from the USA program which he used to coach. The players he has recruited (Fresh/Soph) haven’t developed offensively (at least not yet). While the previous years showed slow progress, this Year has been a slide backwards as they have a non-existent powerplay and offense that is offensively challenged at even strength.
    Add Goodsir from Denver to your foregoing "flip" list. Not that he makes the list any more attractive.

    Bottom line, I was never convinced Cole was the right hire (not experienced in a successful rebuild; too nice a guy to make the tough decisions; etc. etc.). Consequently, I have a lot further way to go to be won over. But if you re-read your post, I'm struggling to come away with anything positive that would change my position. Incoming OA recruits who arguably should dominate 02s, 03s, and the smattering of 04s in Tier 1? The ones that got away? The regression in the PP and offense? Help a girl out!

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  • wsummers
    replied
    Originally posted by FLHockeyMom View Post

    Danton Cole flipped Cesana from USMA shortly after being hired at MSU, and Cesana's shown that he's better than your average AHA player. That having been said, his development trajectory, along with most of the team, has stagnated under Cole. So it's hard to know what his ceiling really is. Since Cesana's one of the few offensive weapons, he'd be a waste on the PK at the moment.
    Cesana was a flip from Army, the K twins from Wisconsin, Mattson from North Dakota, Combs from BSU. Incoming Sophomores Davidson from UMassAmherst and Middendorf from CC. Middendorf and Davidson are leading their teams in scoring, but as 20 year olds they should...we’ll see if it carries over next year.

    I’m not as down on Cole as you seem to be. He has had a couple top recruits who never made it to campus. My biggest disappointment is he hasn’t so far been able to draw guys from the USA program which he used to coach. The players he has recruited (Fresh/Soph) haven’t developed offensively (at least not yet). While the previous years showed slow progress, this Year has been a slide backwards as they have a non-existent powerplay and offense that is offensively challenged at even strength.

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  • FLHockeyMom
    replied
    Originally posted by Johnny Danger View Post
    dennis cesana is the team's leading scorer. As a defenseman. means, there's not too much offense from the offense ;-)
    Beside that .. how is Cesana's development? is he playing on the PK?
    Danton Cole flipped Cesana from USMA shortly after being hired at MSU, and Cesana's shown that he's better than your average AHA player. That having been said, his development trajectory, along with most of the team, has stagnated under Cole. So it's hard to know what his ceiling really is. Since Cesana's one of the few offensive weapons, he'd be a waste on the PK at the moment.

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  • Johnny Danger
    replied
    dennis cesana is the team's leading scorer. As a defenseman. means, there's not too much offense from the offense ;-)
    Beside that .. how is Cesana's development? is he playing on the PK?

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  • digitalbooya
    replied
    Donovan with a horrible hit...

    Edit: I'm in the wrong thread. I apologize.

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  • FLHockeyMom
    replied
    Originally posted by Sol Diablo View Post

    I feel for you. Much of what you state applies to ASU also.
    It applies to a lot of offensively challenged D1 programs, so MSU is certainly far from alone. The problem as I see it is we hired a guy 4 years ago to cut down the program and make drastic changes, and I see little progress in that direction. Guys like Carvel, Motzko, and dare I say even Brekke at SLU have done much more in that or less time. Moral of the story: Don't hire the guy who's inexperienced in building programs.

    WSummers, Jeremy Davidson also qualifies as a USHL- and NCAA-experienced transfer recruited by Cole. I do tend to reserve a bit of judgment on PPG OAs in the USHL, since they're piling on the points vs. '02s, '03s, and even the occassional '04s. So it remains to be seen how those recruits will translate to Cole's style. After all, even Combs is closer to 1/2 PPG at the moment, and clearly we need to do better.

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  • Sol Diablo
    replied
    Originally posted by wsummers View Post

    Gotta agree. It’s impossible to put together a string of 3 or 4 wins when you’re averaging less than 2 goals a game, and have the leagues worst powerplay and most penalty minutes. An average offense would keep MSU in the middle of the pack. Unfortunately, they will be lucky to escape last place.

    While I didn’t expect this team to be an offensive force, I thought they would be around 2.5 goals a game.

    So far Cole’s best offensive players have been inherited or transferred from other programs. The top incoming forward next year is likely to be Middendorf, another transfer.
    I feel for you. Much of what you state applies to ASU also.

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