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>>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

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  • Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

    Originally posted by Ed Trefzger View Post
    Three D-I hockey commissioners have each told me that they would support RIT and Union being allowed to offer scholarships. But the decision has to come from D-III at the NCAA, which has little incentive to do so.
    Exactly, and hence my frustration with the administration. Yes they cheer and celebrate the programs accomplishments, but the path you just describe seems impossible and that is the path they are on. The only way I can see that working is if you have a hell of a smooth and smart negotiator which if RIT has one I have not meet him. You'll have to find a way to provide that incentive otherwise this business is just academic (no pun intended). They do seem to get tunnel vision on routes that are next to impossible...

    The one thing I never get as an alumni who has basically lived in Buffalo since 1988. Rochester seems ripe for a D-I Sports school. No professional teams in a city of 200,000. You looking at 50,000 more than Syracuse and about 50,000 less than Buffalo. I've never been under the illusion that it would be easy, but it's do able. Should have had my old debate buddy from the book of face take a shot at it instead of being a town supervisor. He annoying enough to get it down

    Originally posted by Ed Trefzger View Post
    All I will offer is looking at the box, there is a name I am not surprise to see. Part of the problem is that either an AHA official will go to the ECAC or they just end up getting let go. Only really one or two exceptions I can think of off the top of my head. Also from what I would call a very "creditable" source with direct knowledge is that the AHA doesn't want to deal with officials who want to work other leagues as well. This is a real problem that affects the talent pool of officials and they don't have the best reputation to begin with.

    This is also just a problem across all NCAA sports. As some of you know I was and just recently again became an umpire of high school and amateur baseball in Western New York. While I do not have time in my life for college level ball, I do work with guys who do that level and have other friends who work DI Baseball and Softball. The requirements to get into this kind of ball is beyond ridiculous. You have to attend clinics that you have to pay for and btw, that doesn't include getting on a plane and a hotel. Even after you go to these clinics, you then have to go to "try-outs" for each group (some leagues have multiple groups who assign games) and pay another $300-$400 just to try out, and of course you don't get the money back if you do not make it. Anyone here want to interview and pay $300 for their job? Then even if you make it... This past season I had a Varsity Class AA game with a partner who was also a College Softball Umpire. This was a Friday 4pm game, as soon as it was over he throw his gear back in the car and drove from Buffalo NY to Rhode Island. Where he was staying over the next two nights with his crew (3 umpires total) in a cheap two bedroom hotel room to work two double headers on Saturday & Sunday. Millage and lodging was not paid, all though in theory it is "built" into the game fee.

    My point in all this is, besides having to be a good official who knows the rules and works his/her tail off, you have to put up with all this. Any reasonable mind would conclude that this is going to have a negative effect on your talent pool. You want to make money doing officiating, you need to make it in the professional ranks. And that takes even more talent, hard work, and putting up with more BS than I just outlined. It also involves a lot of luck. At least you get a six figure paycheck, where in reality if you get into the top DI for a sport, you might make an extra $5K-$10K a year...
    Last edited by Tom Naeger; 11-29-2018, 10:58 AM.
    Course, That's Just my Opinion, I Could Be Wrong.

    Thomas M. Naeger
    The Mule
    Rochester Institute of Technology '03


    "Good Judgment comes from experience, experience comes from Bad Judgment"

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    • Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

      Originally posted by Ed Trefzger View Post
      As things stand at present, the only way that RIT can offer scholarships is to go at least to Division II for all of its sports, a two-year move, and one that would probably see the end of some sports. Unless the NCAA opens up the rules, RIT cannot offer scholarships. (It would take a total of 11 years to go fully D-I.)

      These D-I teams at D-III schools are grandfathered, having offered scholarships before the door on them closed in the early 80s:

      Clarkson (men's and women's ice hockey)
      Colorado College (men's ice hockey and women's soccer)
      Johns Hopkins (men's and women's lacrosse)
      Rensselaer (men's and women's ice hockey)
      St. Lawrence (men's and women's ice hockey)

      These teams are D-I programs at D-III schools that cannot offer athletic scholarships:

      Franklin and Marshall (men's wrestling)
      Hobart (men's lacrosse)
      MIT (women's rowing)
      RIT (men's and women's ice hockey)
      Union College (men's and women's ice hockey)

      RIT would like to see the grandfathering expanded to these other schools since no team will be allowed to play up in the future. Even the RIT women's team would have been blocked except for RIT successfully making the case to elevate them: https://www.uscho.com/2012/03/20/rit...to-division-i/

      Three D-I hockey commissioners have each told me that they would support RIT and Union being allowed to offer scholarships. But the decision has to come from D-III at the NCAA, which has little incentive to do so.
      Interesting.
      Franklin and Marshall, Hobart and MIT would be in a bind if they did get grandfathered and wanted to offer scholarships. Title IX would require them to have athletic scholarship opportunities available to athletes of the opposite gender. But with no more play-ups allowed that wouldn't happen. They can't grandfather anyone out of following the law.
      So that may only impact RIT and Union, or maybe just RIT. Union voted against the grandfathering of any play-ups from D-III a number of years ago. If their stance were still the same, they might not even want to take advantage.
      Last edited by TigerFan86-87; 11-29-2018, 12:49 PM.
      Can't we all just get along?
      Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

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      • Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

        Originally posted by TigerFan86-87 View Post
        Interesting.
        Franklin and Marshall, Hobart and MIT would be in a bind if they did get grandfathered and wanted to offer scholarships. Title IX would require them to have athletic scholarship opportunities available to athletes of the opposite gender. But with no more play-ups allowed that wouldn't happen. They can't grandfather anyone out of following the law.
        So that may only impact RIT and Union, or maybe just RIT. Union voted against the grandfathering of any play-ups from D-III a number of years ago. If their stance were still the same, they might not even want to take advantage.
        I could have sworn William Smith had a D1 team somewhere, but I can't find it. Nonetheless, if these teams got a special rule passed, it just means Hobart will not be able to take advantage of it.

        BTW, Ed left off Hartwick -- D1 men's soccer and D1 women's field hockey.
        Russell Jaslow
        [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
        U.S. College Hockey Online

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        • Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

          Originally posted by Tom Naeger View Post
          The one thing I never get as an alumni who has basically lived in Buffalo since 1988. Rochester seems ripe for a D-I Sports school. No professional teams in a city of 200,000. You looking at 50,000 more than Syracuse and about 50,000 less than Buffalo. I've never been under the illusion that it would be easy, but it's do able. Should have had my old debate buddy from the book of face take a shot at it instead of being a town supervisor. He annoying enough to get it down
          Before RIT went D1 in hockey, Rochester was the largest city in America without a major league sports franchise or a D1 college team.
          Russell Jaslow
          [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
          U.S. College Hockey Online

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          • Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

            Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
            BTW, Ed left off Hartwick -- D1 men's soccer and D1 women's field hockey.
            Looks like men's soccer just dropped down to D3 this year. Wow. That was a longstanding traditional, and sometimes very successful, D1 program. Sad to see them unable to keep that up. Oneonta was D1 soccer for a very long time as well, but finally gave up the ghost about 5+ years ago.

            And the field hockey team has been D3 for awhile, so now I can't remember which Hartwick women's program was D1 because I can't find one going back a few years.
            Russell Jaslow
            [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
            U.S. College Hockey Online

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            • Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

              Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
              Looks like men's soccer just dropped down to D3 this year. Wow. That was a longstanding traditional, and sometimes very successful, D1 program. Sad to see them unable to keep that up.
              Sad. They went from a 7-9-2 Sun Belt D-I (Hartwick, NY in the Sun Belt... really?) team to an 0-14 Empire 8 D-III team (while scoring only 4 goals). Must not have had much time to recruit after announcing they were relegating themselves.
              Can't we all just get along?
              Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

              Comment


              • Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

                Originally posted by Tom Naeger View Post
                Exactly, and hence my frustration with the administration. Yes they cheer and celebrate the programs accomplishments, but the path you just describe seems impossible and that is the path they are on. The only way I can see that working is if you have a hell of a smooth and smart negotiator which if RIT has one I have not meet him. You'll have to find a way to provide that incentive otherwise this business is just academic (no pun intended). They do seem to get tunnel vision on routes that are next to impossible...

                The one thing I never get as an alumni who has basically lived in Buffalo since 1988. Rochester seems ripe for a D-I Sports school. No professional teams in a city of 200,000. You looking at 50,000 more than Syracuse and about 50,000 less than Buffalo. I've never been under the illusion that it would be easy, but it's do able. Should have had my old debate buddy from the book of face take a shot at it instead of being a town supervisor. He annoying enough to get it down
                Joining DII to get to DI would add extra costs - and I'm not referring to scholarships. I just compared RIT and Lemoyne's mens basketball schedules. RIT does not leave NY during the regular season thanks to being in the Liberty League. By playing in Northeast 10 like Lemoyne, you are taking essentially RIT hockey's travel expenses and putting that on basketball and other sports. I don't know if the numbers add up for that to make sense for RIT. It would be outstanding for the hockey programs, but would it hurt the remaining sports. That's the question that really needs to be answered regarding moving the whole athletic department.

                I don't see any incentive for DIII to allow scholarships for teams that are playing up since there as so few that do. If the NCAA allowed play ups and DIII did that - I would love to see some old DIII rivals take advantage and do so.
                2006-07 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
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                • Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

                  Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
                  Before RIT went D1 in hockey, Rochester was the largest city in America without a major league sports franchise or a D1 college team.
                  I always found that fact and the way it has been stated / framed by the sports media in town over the years intriguing.
                  As far as major league sports (lacrosse and women's soccer notwithstanding - too small time), Rochester really has never struck me as a major league sports city. I know similar and even smaller markets do support teams (Buffalo, Green Bay, etc), but it is a struggle in today's sports landscape. There just aren't enough wealthy sports fans or corporate entities here willing to shell out the funds needed for the many luxury boxes needed to support modern new stadiums. Heck, Buffalo struggled to sell all theirs in the seriously out-dated New Era Field. If and when they build a new stadium, I believe they'll find it very difficult to meet those demands in Western NY.

                  When it comes to D-I sports, the crying from the media / fans is kind of misplaced. Schools are either D-I or D-III (or D-II) schools or they're not. It has very little or nothing at all to do with the population of the metro area where they are located. It has much more to do with the size and values of the school itself. The student body and alumni base is what supports athletic departments usually more than the "locals". There are naturally exceptions to that, but when you look at the megalopolis state schools (see B1G and Big-XII), many are located in small metro areas - East Lansing, Madison, Iowa City, Ames, Linclon, Norman, Waco, Champaign, Bloomington, State College, East Brunswick, Lubbock, Stillwater, etc. Rochester is larger than many of these types of cities that have D-I schools, but does virtually nothing to support their only D-I program (granted it's not football or bball, but nonetheless). UR, Brockport, Geneseo, Fisher, Nazareth, and Roberts Wesleyan are not D-I schools and never will be without major changes to their values, vision, etc. RIT is currently transitioning to more of a national research university type school, but for many years was in the same category as the others. Who knows if that transition will translate to the athletic department or not. Even if it does, it will be a long long time before that could become a reality. The local media and many of the sports fans here don't have any idea what transitioning from D-III to D-I actually means as far as investments in facilities, scholarships, staff, travel, conference fees, insurance, etc. It's just not that easy... and again... not in any way related to market size.
                  Last edited by TigerFan86-87; 11-30-2018, 01:29 PM.
                  Can't we all just get along?
                  Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

                  Comment


                  • Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

                    Well...

                    Air Force is coming into this weekend off of what was I believe their worst performance weekend in their history of D1 Hockey. I say RIT splits but would love to see a sweep! Go TIGERS!
                    R I T HOCKEY
                    Frozen Four
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                    Elite Eight
                    2015
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                    • Originally posted by Rochester View Post
                      Well...

                      Air Force is coming into this weekend off of what was I believe their worst performance weekend in their history of D1 Hockey. I say RIT splits but would love to see a sweep! Go TIGERS!
                      Well your split prediction is still a possibility. 😀
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                      • Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

                        That was a flat out awful performance. Much like every other Friday night performance this year, seemingly. They scored against the run of play and completely lost their shape in their own end afterward, even before Air Force finally broke through. Drackett is fortunate he didn't end up with a misconduct following the 2nd Air Force goal, though he played well overall.

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                        • Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

                          Originally posted by jflory81 View Post
                          That was a flat out awful performance. Much like every other Friday night performance this year, seemingly. They scored against the run of play and completely lost their shape in their own end afterward, even before Air Force finally broke through. Drackett is fortunate he didn't end up with a misconduct following the 2nd Air Force goal, though he played well overall.
                          There's been a few hallmarks of Tiger teams the past 5 or so years, and **** poor Friday performances is one of them. Not sure how the roster has turned over so many guys and this is STILL a problem.
                          RIT

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                          • Originally posted by jflory81 View Post
                            That was a flat out awful performance. Much like every other Friday night performance this year, seemingly. They scored against the run of play and completely lost their shape in their own end afterward, even before Air Force finally broke through. Drackett is fortunate he didn't end up with a misconduct following the 2nd Air Force goal, though he played well overall.
                            He’s lucky he didn’t get a game DSQ. I was shocked the ref let him get away with that.
                            Russell Jaslow
                            [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                            U.S. College Hockey Online

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                            • Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

                              Well it didn't get any better on Saturday.
                              RIT

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                              • Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

                                Originally posted by rit winters View Post
                                well it didn't get any better on saturday.
                                boooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

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