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WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conference

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  • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

    Originally posted by purpleinnebraska View Post
    In fairness to the Gophers, they do have 4 in-state non-conference teams that they make every effort to schedule, including road games. They are also once again playing traditional rival NoDak, and usually host their own tournament. There aren't a lot of openings on their dance card. As for Wisconsin? Yeah, that's just because Wisconsin is a bunch of jerks.
    I partly don't blame WisconSIN for not wanting to leave their rink as they do have 10,000+ capacity and put a good number of butts in seats. That said, WisconSIN shouldn't go all the way to Houghton or Marquette to return the favors.

    Tech should be able to make the argument for a home and home as we draw a good crowd. I think the real reason they don't want to play in Houghton is they know Tech realistically can beat them, especially during the school year when the Mac is rocking.

    This is hockey, most schools are in remote locations. They made your life easier by "making" "remote" conferences (WCHA, ECAC, and AH), the least they (bigger programs) can do is make one trip to their rink a season.

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    • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

      Originally posted by Lost_Husky View Post

      This is hockey, most schools are in remote locations. They made your life easier by "making" "remote" conferences (WCHA, ECAC, and AH), the least they (bigger programs) can do is make one trip to their rink a season.
      Meh. I think whatever debt they owed us is paid. I guess I'm not all that wound up about this issue because as I noted, the Gophers have been pretty fair to us on this, SCSU and UMD have both been to Mankato more than once since they left the WCHA, and there isn't any other team that would draw more than Generic Opponent A (Well, NoDak, but they bring their own crowd, I don't know that they bring out any more locals.). For all the talk in this thread about "prestige" and "traditional hockey power" or other such terms, there's no reason to believe Denver, Wisconsin, Michigan, CC, etc. would draw any more people to Mankato than Brown, Western Michigan, or any AH team.

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      • Lol at the last one, now that would be a long "road" trip.
        Just to be clear. My disinterest in this team became of the Uni's disinterest. Without the success of the hockey team, the other teams would not be where they are. Way to pay back the hockey team. **** UAA.

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        • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

          Originally posted by purpleinnebraska View Post
          Meh. I think whatever debt they owed us is paid. I guess I'm not all that wound up about this issue because as I noted, the Gophers have been pretty fair to us on this, SCSU and UMD have both been to Mankato more than once since they left the WCHA, and there isn't any other team that would draw more than Generic Opponent A (Well, NoDak, but they bring their own crowd, I don't know that they bring out any more locals.). For all the talk in this thread about "prestige" and "traditional hockey power" or other such terms, there's no reason to believe Denver, Wisconsin, Michigan, CC, etc. would draw any more people to Mankato than Brown, Western Michigan, or any AH team.
          SMH. That is because Mankato is an easy 4+ lane highway drive between those in-state/former WCHA schools. Try getting a home and home out of WisconSIN. As stated before they will go to Green Bay, and no farther.

          If Mankato wasn't in a league with Tech, would your team travel to Tech, LSSU, or NMU for a NC home and home series?

          IMO, UMD has been fair with Tech for NC games.

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          • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

            Originally posted by Lost_Husky View Post
            SMH. That is because Mankato is an easy 4+ lane highway drive between those in-state/former WCHA schools. Try getting a home and home out of WisconSIN. As stated before they will go to Green Bay, and no farther.

            If Mankato wasn't in a league with Tech, would your team travel to Tech, LSSU, or NMU for a NC home and home series?

            IMO, UMD has been fair with Tech for NC games.
            "If Mankato wasn't in a league with Tech, would your team travel to..."

            i think it has been made very obvious that MNSU does NOT want to be in a league with "...Tech, LSSU, or NMU."

            which i guess is understandable with with many other quality schools at a much shorter drive-time.
            Last edited by DrunkTrainPolka; 06-05-2018, 07:39 AM.

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            • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

              Originally posted by Lost_Husky View Post
              SMH. That is because Mankato is an easy 4+ lane highway drive between those in-state/former WCHA schools. Try getting a home and home out of WisconSIN. As stated before they will go to Green Bay, and no farther.

              If Mankato wasn't in a league with Tech, would your team travel to Tech, LSSU, or NMU for a NC home and home series?

              IMO, UMD has been fair with Tech for NC games.
              Part of my point is that we really don't want a home and home with Wisconsin. We certainly don't need one. Why beg and grovel and take table scraps from a program that isn't going to put one more butt in the seats? I can honestly say, in the last 5 years, I haven't heard a single Kato fan say "I miss Wisconsin" or "I miss Denver." If they don't want to give us a home and home, we're not going to play them.
              In the last few years, we've traveled to RPI, UAH (before they were in the WCHA), UConn, and Boston. So yeah, I think we'd travel to the UP for games.

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              • Originally posted by purpleinnebraska View Post
                Part of my point is that we really don't want a home and home with Wisconsin. We certainly don't need one. Why beg and grovel and take table scraps from a program that isn't going to put one more butt in the seats? I can honestly say, in the last 5 years, I haven't heard a single Kato fan say "I miss Wisconsin" or "I miss Denver." If they don't want to give us a home and home, we're not going to play them.
                In the last few years, we've traveled to RPI, UAH (before they were in the WCHA), UConn, and Boston. So yeah, I think we'd travel to the UP for games.
                Have played at Princeton and Providence as well, flying to Arizona State (tournament) this year, etc.

                The Mavs are trying to schedule the nationís top teams in the non conference now more than ever though, partly to grow the program and show the commitment to top tier D-1 hockey, and part because they need to strengthen their own schedule as much as possible to get into the NCAAs due to the bottom half of the WCHA.

                Agreed, why schedule Wisconsin when you can play the following:

                2018-2019: Minnesota, North Dakota, Boston University, and ASU/UMD/Clarkson

                2017-2018: BU, SCSU, UMD, etc.

                2016-2017: SCSU, MN, Princeton

                2015-2016: SCSU (x3), MN(x3), UNO

                2014-2015: UNO, UMD, Princeton, MN

                2013-2014: Providence, UMD, SCSU, MN, UCONN

                Thereís no need to get Wisconsin on the schedule.
                AF 99

                M-A-V-E-R-I-C-K-S, MAVERICKS, MAVERICKS, GOOOOO STATE!

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                • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                  Originally posted by MavHockey14 View Post
                  Have played at Princeton and Providence as well, flying to Arizona State (tournament) this year, etc.

                  The Mavs are trying to schedule the nationís top teams in the non conference now more than ever though, partly to grow the program and show the commitment to top tier D-1 hockey, and part because they need to strengthen their own schedule as much as possible to get into the NCAAs due to the bottom half of the WCHA.

                  Agreed, why schedule Wisconsin when you can play the following:

                  2018-2019: Minnesota, North Dakota, Boston University, and ASU/UMD/Clarkson

                  2017-2018: BU, SCSU, UMD, etc.

                  2016-2017: SCSU, MN, Princeton

                  2015-2016: SCSU (x3), MN(x3), UNO

                  2014-2015: UNO, UMD, Princeton, MN

                  2013-2014: Providence, UMD, SCSU, MN, UCONN

                  Thereís no need to get Wisconsin on the schedule.
                  Playing good teams isn't the priority for PWR, playing teams from good conferences that you can beat consistently is...far more important to win than play a good team...if you could do it your best bet is to play the worst teams in NCHC, HEA, B1G, ECAC (depending on the year)...
                  Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                  Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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                  • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                    Originally posted by purpleinnebraska View Post
                    Part of my point is that we really don't want a home and home with Wisconsin. We certainly don't need one. Why beg and grovel and take table scraps from a program that isn't going to put one more butt in the seats? I can honestly say, in the last 5 years, I haven't heard a single Kato fan say "I miss Wisconsin" or "I miss Denver." If they don't want to give us a home and home, we're not going to play them.
                    In the last few years, we've traveled to RPI, UAH (before they were in the WCHA), UConn, and Boston. So yeah, I think we'd travel to the UP for games.
                    I don't blame MSU for that assessment, but how can you not want a crack at WisconSIN? I grew up with a strong dislike of WisconSIN in my mouth and a friendly rivalry with Iowa. Then again, I grew up a Golden Gopher sports fan and a Mankato State's automotive department fan.

                    For Tech, when said school is the closest B1G program, we have a reasonable student/alumni base in that neighboring state, former WCHA team,... it makes for a good opponent.

                    I do commend MSU for going and getting good/diverse non-conference opponents.

                    Comment


                    • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                      Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                      Playing good teams isn't the priority for PWR, playing teams from good conferences that you can beat consistently is...far more important to win than play a good team...if you could do it your best bet is to play the worst teams in NCHC, HEA, B1G, ECAC (depending on the year)...
                      no sure if i agree...

                      we [tech] should play as many better teams as possible - not necessarily the best but better. and not loose to the the ones we play that are worse then we are. IMO, the reason we didn't make the NCAA after the first time with mel was because we were swept at home by UAA.

                      and if its telling [besides me liking numbers] this is the end of season PWR-wise;

                      russell 2004 better then mel 2013
                      russell 2005 better then mel 2012-2014
                      ruseell 2006 better then mel 2013
                      russell 2007 better then mel 2012-2014 & 2017
                      russell 2008 better then mel 2012-2014 & 2017

                      russell only beats joe in 2007
                      mel only beats joe in 2015 & 2016

                      both joe and mel beat russell on his last three years of 2009-2011

                      i think you expect russell's numbers to be worse...
                      Last edited by DrunkTrainPolka; 06-05-2018, 02:02 PM.

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                      • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                        Originally posted by DrunkTrainPolka View Post
                        no sure if i agree...

                        we [tech] should play as many better teams as possible - not necessarily the best but better. and not loose to the the ones we play that are worse then we are. IMO, the reason we didn't make the NCAA after the first time with mel was because we were swept at home by UAA.

                        and if its telling [besides me liking numbers] this is the end of season PWR-wise;

                        russell 2004 better then mel 2013
                        russell 2005 better then mel 2012-2014
                        ruseell 2006 better then mel 2013
                        russell 2007 better then mel 2012-2014 & 2017
                        russell 2008 better then mel 2012-2014 & 2017

                        russell only beats joe in 2007
                        mel only beats joe in 2015 & 2016

                        both joe and mel beat russell on his last three years of 2009-2011

                        i think you expect russell's numbers to be worse...
                        how are you comparing things? We're talking about who any team should play to maximize their PWR. The PWR calculation changed around the time Russell left/Mel joined so that isn't apples to apples. Opponent's Opponent's W% is the most important # so playing (and beating) Michigan State, Wisconsin, Vermont, Merrimack, UNH, CC, Miami would have been the best way to improve your PWR last season. Trust me...I spent way too much time looking at this stuff... The reason we want to play UAH, FSU, UA_, UAA, LSSU less isn't because they're bad, its because they're bad, and they play a lot of games against bad teams the other 5...so both the Opp% and Opp%Opp% are lower than other possible opponents.
                        Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                        Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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                        • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                          Originally posted by Lost_Husky View Post
                          I don't blame MSU for that assessment, but how can you not want a crack at WisconSIN? I grew up with a strong dislike of WisconSIN in my mouth and a friendly rivalry with Iowa. Then again, I grew up a Golden Gopher sports fan and a Mankato State's automotive department fan.

                          For Tech, when said school is the closest B1G program, we have a reasonable student/alumni base in that neighboring state, former WCHA team,... it makes for a good opponent.

                          I do commend MSU for going and getting good/diverse non-conference opponents.
                          I looked back to see if indifference to Wisconsin is just recent, or if we got more amped for those games than I'm remembering. For comparison, attendance the last 5 times MN has come to Mankato:4612, 5134, 4854, 5156, 5048. Last 5 Wisconsin games in Mankato: 4357, 3656, 4051, 3468, 3826. So, the largest Wisconsin crowd was smaller than the smallest Gopher crowd.
                          Admittedly, these aren't totally apples to apples - The 2 most recent Gopher games were after their departure from the WCHA, and the oldest Wisconsin game goes back to 2009, when we weren't good. But the last 2 Wisconsin games, both under 4000 in attendance, were in Coach Hastings' first year, when we were very competitive. So I think my recollection of Wisco not being a hot ticket is pretty accurate.

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                          • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                            Originally posted by purpleinnebraska View Post
                            I looked back to see if indifference to Wisconsin is just recent, or if we got more amped for those games than I'm remembering. For comparison, attendance the last 5 times MN has come to Mankato:4612, 5134, 4854, 5156, 5048. Last 5 Wisconsin games in Mankato: 4357, 3656, 4051, 3468, 3826. So, the largest Wisconsin crowd was smaller than the smallest Gopher crowd.
                            Admittedly, these aren't totally apples to apples - The 2 most recent Gopher games were after their departure from the WCHA, and the oldest Wisconsin game goes back to 2009, when we weren't good. But the last 2 Wisconsin games, both under 4000 in attendance, were in Coach Hastings' first year, when we were very competitive. So I think my recollection of Wisco not being a hot ticket is pretty accurate.
                            From what I saw looking at attendance, it seems pretty important to compare Friday to Friday/Saturday to Saturday, etc. It's a complicated thing, not to menion comparing 2009 to 2015 is silly. How are those numbers compared to the season average of the given year?
                            Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                            Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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                            • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                              Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                              how are you comparing things? We're talking about who any team should play to maximize their PWR. The PWR calculation changed around the time Russell left/Mel joined so that isn't apples to apples. Opponent's Opponent's W% is the most important # so playing (and beating) Michigan State, Wisconsin, Vermont, Merrimack, UNH, CC, Miami would have been the best way to improve your PWR last season. Trust me...I spent way too much time looking at this stuff... The reason we want to play UAH, FSU, UA_, UAA, LSSU less isn't because they're bad, its because they're bad, and they play a lot of games against bad teams the other 5...so both the Opp% and Opp%Opp% are lower than other possible opponents.
                              i am not arguing how the PWR works... and its not perfect but its the same 'math' for everyone, so its fair enough. its biggest fault is the fact that not enough inter-conference games are played.

                              my reason to compare russell to joe and/or mel is to bring up the fact of what being in a stronger conference can mean. i suffered tons through russell... but PWR-wise, it was not THAT BAD besides the last three seasons.

                              so maybe i should pose this in a question;

                              should we just be quiet and keep things as they are; what got us in the NCAA the last two seasons, hardware included, was not the PWR...

                              besides re-arranging conferences, i think creating two regions (creating more NC opportunities) and playing the likes of UMD, SCCU, MN, and UW would do wonders...

                              Comment


                              • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                                Originally posted by DrunkTrainPolka View Post
                                i am not arguing how the PWR works... and its not perfect but its the same 'math' for everyone, so its fair enough. its biggest fault is the fact that not enough inter-conference games are played.

                                my reason to compare russell to joe and/or mel is to bring up the fact of what being in a stronger conference can mean. i suffered tons through russell... but PWR-wise, it was not THAT BAD besides the last three seasons.

                                so maybe i should pose this in a question;

                                should we just be quiet and keep things as they are; what got us in the NCAA, hardware included, was not the PWR...

                                besides re-arranging conferences, i think creating two regions (creating more NC opportunities) and playing the likes of UMD, SCCU, MN, and UW would do wonders...
                                And I'm telling you, you can't compare the Russell era to pearson/present because the calculation had a major overhaul in there somewhere.
                                As for the conference schedule...playing less conference games doesn't help WCHA teams unless we can win more games, or end up in the better half of the conference...We're actually going to invest some time this summer in analyzing PWR a few different ways including doing something drastic like Conference USA Basketball. I also want to invest some time in figuring out what other conferences are doing with their NC games. Who are they playing and where...It will never happen, nor should it happen from a competitive standpoint but playing ZERO non-conference games is actually the best for the WCHA to get more teams into the tournament.
                                Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                                Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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