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RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

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  • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

    Originally posted by Scott Biggar View Post
    Home ice advantage, or lack there of, is a bit more nuanced that what you have implied.
    You think my description lacked nuance, but you're the one who boils "home ice advantage" down to a simple comparison of records.

    I meant much more by my statement than a simple description of the trend in home record, though that does factor into it, of course.


    Powers &8^]

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    • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

      Originally posted by LtPowers View Post
      You think my description lacked nuance, but you're the one who boils "home ice advantage" down to a simple comparison of records.

      I meant much more by my statement than a simple description of the trend in home record, though that does factor into it, of course.


      Powers &8^]
      Comparing the home vs. road records within each season makes more sense.
      Just as examples:
      That 11-12 team was much better than many that have come since then, so of course their home record would be better. Their road record (too lazy to look it up) probably wasn't all that bad either.
      This year's team was not stellar on the road, but still much better than they were at home. In this calendar year, they are 2-9 at home and 4-3-1 on the road.
      Now that is a serious lack of "home ice advantage", whatever that entails.
      Last edited by TigerFan86-87; 03-05-2018, 11:31 AM.
      Can't we all just get along?
      Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

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      • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

        Originally posted by komey1 View Post
        the team went 4-7 against the bottom 4 teams in the conference.
        It's actually a bit worse than that:
        1-1 vs AIC
        0-1-1 vs NU
        0-2 vs Bentley
        2-3 vs SHU

        That's 3-7-1.
        The only reason that the record against all teams below RIT in the standings (7-7-1) doesn't look as bad compared to the record against the teams above them (7-9) is the 4 game sweep against Robert Morris.
        Can't we all just get along?
        Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

        Comment


        • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

          Did anyone else notice that during the pregame, the video board had the Tiger head and the SHU logos up with the scroll behind it reading Rochester Institute of Technology vs Ryerson University?

          Is Ryerson, by some chance, the Tigers' Canadian exhibition and first game next season? That's the only thing I could think of as to how that got on there.
          Can't we all just get along?
          Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

          Comment


          • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

            Originally posted by TigerFan86-87 View Post
            Did anyone else notice that during the pregame, the video board had the Tiger head and the SHU logos up with the scroll behind it reading Rochester Institute of Technology vs Ryerson University?

            Is Ryerson, by some chance, the Tigers' Canadian exhibition and first game next season? That's the only thing I could think of as to how that got on there.
            The women's team played Ryerson for their exhibition this year. could have been just been a mistake.
            Atlantic Hockey Composite schedule: www.tinyurl.com/AHAcomp2
            College Hockey America (Women) Composite Schedule: www.tinyurl.com/CHAWcomp

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            RIT Tigers
            Men's Atlantic Hockey Champions 2010 2015 2016
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            • Originally posted by komey1 View Post
              And yet only 2 years ago, we were enjoying a 2nd straight NCAA tournament appearance.

              Coach Wilson has earned a long leash based on what he has done. Honestly, RIT is lucky they have had him as long as they did. I know quite a few of us were concerned he would be poached after the Frozen Four run. I would not be surprised if some schools had interest.

              Now if there are no tournament or conference regular season championships in the next four years, then we can talk.
              So well be talking in four years then?

              On a more serious note, I dont know if Id necessarily advocate for firing him now (though I wont shed any tears if he is), more that Im advocating for letting him walk in 2022.

              He earned a long leash, but 12 years is a lot of leash to choke yourself with.

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              • Double posted, ignore this

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                • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                  https://www.democratandchronicle.com...hips/22651989/

                  I truly believe that this program is extremely limited by having no scholarships. RIT is in the worst conference and is an extremely expensive school. Wayne and company have done a great job trying to find gems but the AHC is just getting better. What collegiate athlete wants to graduate with almost $200,000 in debt when they can get up to a full ride... Also attendance has dropped considerably...

                  What are the chances of RIT actually winning this scholarship debate?

                  Enjoy your offseason Tiger fans from all around.
                  R I T HOCKEY
                  Frozen Four
                  2010
                  Elite Eight
                  2015
                  NCAA Tournament
                  2010-2015-2016
                  RIP-Mikita Dan Barrows

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                  • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                    Originally posted by Rochester View Post
                    What collegiate athlete wants to graduate with almost $200,000 in debt when they can get up to a full ride...
                    I would be stunned if any men's hockey player had to take out $200k in loans. RIT does everything they legally can to get financial aid to these student-athletes.


                    Also attendance has dropped considerably...
                    This is a problem too, and part of what I was referring to with the loss of our home-ice advantage. We've lost something that packed the Ritter.


                    Powers &8^]

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                    • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                      Originally posted by LtPowers View Post
                      I would be stunned if any men's hockey player had to take out $200k in loans. RIT does everything they legally can to get financial aid to these student-athletes.

                      Powers &8^]
                      A loan is a loan...even if it's 40K, (using the 200K example, the student-athlete gets 15K 'grant' a year over four years for 60K total, parents cash flow around 100K give or take and the student-athlete has a 40K loan to pay back on future ECHL or similar wages). Or the student-athlete can take a look at one of the other AHC schools that offer scholarships and are increasing their hockey scholarship numbers to eventually be 18. So what does the RIT Hockey Program offer that the student-athlete can't get at another school? A easier path to the NHL? A small fish bowl rink that sells out every game and has rabid fans that intimidate the opposing team? Nope. I think those ships have sailed, yes Tanev from RIT is in the NHL, and so is Conacher from Canisius, and the Ritter is no more, replaced with the opponent friendly GPC.

                      I don't envy what our RIT coaching staff has to do to recruit top level talent, I've written before that maybe they need to take a page out of the recruitment book that Union uses as they seem to have a good pipeline of talent using the same rules...

                      Without scholarships it's only going to get harder, still not impossible to continue to bring in top talent but definitely harder. The playing field has shifted and maybe the writing is on the wall and Munson knows this.

                      Winters mentioned that Munson has been putting effort into the D3 programs. If that is the case is it in an effort to bring the entire school to D1 sometime in the next few years?
                      Last edited by Downstate_RIT_Fan; 03-05-2018, 10:01 PM.
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                      • Originally posted by Rochester View Post
                        https://www.democratandchronicle.com...hips/22651989/

                        I truly believe that this program is extremely limited by having no scholarships. RIT is in the worst conference and is an extremely expensive school. Wayne and company have done a great job trying to find gems but the AHC is just getting better. What collegiate athlete wants to graduate with almost $200,000 in debt when they can get up to a full ride... Also attendance has dropped considerably...

                        What are the chances of RIT actually winning this scholarship debate?

                        Enjoy your offseason Tiger fans from all around.
                        One huge mistake in this article.

                        Union CHOSE to not give scholarships out. They were part of the grandfather rule put in place when the rule to not allow schools with single sports playing up to give scholarships out was passed.

                        That is why Clarkson, SLU, RPI, Hartwick soccer, etc. still give scholarships. At the time, RIT had not yet moved their hockey teams up. Union was already D1 in hockey, but they chose not to take advantage of the grandfather rule, and in fact fought against the grandfather rule in the first place.

                        Im also pretty darn sure Hobart lacrosse was already D1, so they also chose to continue to not give scholarships away.
                        Russell Jaslow
                        [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                        U.S. College Hockey Online

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                        • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                          Originally posted by Downstate_RIT_Fan View Post
                          A loan is a loan...even if it's 40K, (using the 200K example, the student-athlete gets 15K 'grant' a year over four years for 60K total, parents cash flow around 100K give or take and the student-athlete has a 40K loan to pay back on future ECHL or similar wages). Or the student-athlete can take a look at one of the other AHC schools that offer scholarships and are increasing their hockey scholarship numbers to eventually be 18. So what does the RIT Hockey Program offer that the student-athlete can't get at another school? A easier path to the NHL? A small fish bowl rink that sells out every game and has rabid fans that intimidate the opposing team? Nope. I think those ships have sailed, yes Tanev from RIT is in the NHL, and so is Conacher from Canisius, and the Ritter is no more, replaced with the opponent friendly GPC.

                          I don't envy what our RIT coaching staff has to do to recruit top level talent, I've written before that maybe they need to take a page out of the recruitment book that Union uses as they seem to have a good pipeline of talent using the same rules...

                          Without scholarships it's only going to get harder, still not impossible to continue to bring in top talent but definitely harder. The playing field has shifted and maybe the writing is on the wall and Munson knows this.

                          Winters mentioned that Munson has been putting effort into the D3 programs. If that is the case is it in an effort to bring the entire school to D1 sometime in the next few years?
                          I doubt many recruits would look at Ritter vs GPC and think Ritter was the better place to be. Sure, it was packed...but it was also kind of a dump (in a loveable way). GPC has all kinds of amenities and creature comforts for the players that would certainly be more attractive to them than how full the stands are.

                          I'm not sure we know what Union does differently to recruit better talent. However, it definitely goes back to the conference discussion. They play in a more prestigious conference and frequently play far more prestigious opponents which not only raises their national profile but also raises their value to recruits. There's a much better chance of NHL scouts seeing you play if you're playing for Union than for RIT.

                          My sense from Munson has not been an interest in D1, but a simple desire to see our school be more than a mediocre D1 hockey school. He wants sustained, championship-level success at lacrosse, basketball, baseball, etc. And based on how these teams have been doing lately, this seems like a much more attainable goal than getting scholarships for the hockey program.

                          Moving to the ECAC for that matter seems like a more readily attainable goal than getting scholarships and would over time still prove to be a boon for us, I think. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see us offer scholarships, I just don't think it is very likely anytime soon/ever. If it were to happen, I think we'd have a good shot at quickly becoming a perennial top dog in AHC like we were back when none of the other schools were really trying.
                          Last edited by RIT Winters; 03-06-2018, 07:14 AM.
                          RIT

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                          • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                            Originally posted by RIT Winters View Post
                            I doubt many recruits would look at Ritter vs GPC and think Ritter was the better place to be. Sure, it was packed...but it was also kind of a dump (in a loveable way). GPC has all kinds of amenities and creature comforts for the players that would certainly be more attractive to them than how full the stands are.
                            I think if RIT was in the Ritter, the team's record would be worse because they would not be able to get some of the best players that have come. Back when RIT started in Atlantic Hockey, the Ritter was better than at least half the arenas in the conference. That would no longer be the case. It would be near the bottom if not the bottom arena from a player's perspective.

                            I'm not sure we know what Union does differently to recruit better talent. However, it definitely goes back to the conference discussion. They play in a more prestigious conference and frequently play far more prestigious opponents which not only raises their national profile but also raises their value to recruits. There's a much better chance of NHL scouts seeing you play if you're playing for Union than for RIT.
                            Conference affiliation is important because of two factors: NCAA championship opportunities and chance to be seen by scouts. Atlantic Hockey has been a 1 bid league almost every year it's been in existence and that's going to be hard to change in the near future. I'm not saying it won't happen, but it won't happen very often. So basically, there is a 1/11 chance of making the big tournament. And because the conference is a lower level conference, it's hard to judge how good a player is based on accomplishments in Atlantic Hockey.
                            My sense from Munson has not been an interest in D1, but a simple desire to see our school be more than a mediocre D1 hockey school. He wants sustained, championship-level success at lacrosse, basketball, baseball, etc. And based on how these teams have been doing lately, this seems like a much more attainable goal than getting scholarships for the hockey program.
                            I think this is a great goal, Athletics at RIT should be more than just hockey. One of the best ways to instill school spirit is to have winning sports teams. It should be important to have multiple high caliber teams. Hockey will probably always be the flagship sport at RIT, but it should not be the only sport that gets the school's attention.
                            Moving to the ECAC for that matter seems like a more readily attainable goal than getting scholarships and would over time still prove to be a boon for us, I think. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see us offer scholarships, I just don't think it is very likely anytime soon/ever. If it were to happen, I think we'd have a good shot at quickly becoming a perennial top dog in AHC like we were back when none of the other schools were really trying.
                            I would agree that a move to ECAC would be a boon long term. However, don't expect that RIT could just jump in that league and be a contender. They probably would need a couple recruiting cycles just to get to a point of consistently having home ice in the first round of their playoffs. In terms of scholarships, I don't think it would change all that much the type of players RIT can get right now. Are you suggesting that other teams are consistently getting better players than RIT?
                            2006-07 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
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                            • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                              Originally posted by komey1 View Post
                              I would agree that a move to ECAC would be a boon long term. However, don't expect that RIT could just jump in that league and be a contender. They probably would need a couple recruiting cycles just to get to a point of consistently having home ice in the first round of their playoffs. In terms of scholarships, I don't think it would change all that much the type of players RIT can get right now. Are you suggesting that other teams are consistently getting better players than RIT?
                              I think that having scholarships pretty much automatically improves the quality of recruits, especially to a program that already receives so much support and resources from the school. How many kids won't even consider us because of the financial burden for doing so?

                              I don't think it's unlikely that RIT would be able to steal away some quality recruits that normally sign on to teams in better conferences by promising them bigger minutes and a potentially more likely path to the NCAA tournament (compared to middle/bottom tier teams in those leagues at least). Even within AHC we're seeing more and better scholarship recruits in the league...it's hard to imagine RIT wouldn't be a more alluring destination than Niagara, Holy Cross, etc. if we could match them dollar for dollar.
                              RIT

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                              • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                                Originally posted by LtPowers View Post
                                We've lost something that packed the Ritter.
                                Powers &8^]
                                Although attendance has been down a bit, it's never been that great relative to the size of the GPC to begin with. It's not surprising that as the teams fortunes dip, so will attendance. However, most, if not all, of the GPC crowds are significantly larger than the Ritter can even hold. At the end of Ritter's time, the crowds were dipping to consistently less than sellout levels because of the quality of the team itself. So the attendance is still greatly improved since then.
                                What needs to be done is to find a way to make the GPC a bit more like the Ritter relative to it being an uncomfortable place for opponents to play in. I have no idea what the solution is aside from getting about 3 times as many students in the building on a regular basis and somehow magically make the seating bowl steeper and closer to the ice. I was probably one of many who suggested in our post-season survey from the GPC a couple seasons ago that more general admission was needed for students, but then they added GA seats behind the Tigers' goal. I was proposing adding more GA to extend the section around the opponents' goal and let students sit in GA closer to and at center ice, especially on the bench side (where TV cameras can see - like Duke does with basketball). That could intensify the atmosphere in there as well as make it look from TV like there are actually people there. When you watch the broadcast, it looks like a library in there. Of course that would only help if more students attended. Lower the student ticket prices even more and make them free occasionally (giveaways at various campus events, maybe) and try to do whatever you can to get them in the house with a host of sections set aside just for them. Let the "wealthy" alumni that can afford center ice reserved seats to sit on the penalty box side of center ice.
                                Can't we all just get along?
                                Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

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