UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

[j24vt]

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

We will still be going to the games. Get to see some good hockey even if it is not on the UVM side The kids we took to the Harvard games are now excited to see Donato play in the Olympics.

[GreenCat]

I think it's awesome that actual players who have moved on seemingly have as much interest in this as we do.

The amount of effort these guys put in to make it to this level and to play at this level is tremendous and that is why they are and should be passionate about this issue. The sh1te show going on should be a huge red flag for Schulman.

[jcarter7669]

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

I think it's time to boycot the hockey games. If attendence drops to a few hundred a game the Admin will be forced to do something. Fire Schulman and Sneddon, which is too bad. I liked Schulman, he coached my daughters when they were 4 years old. Every Sat at the rink helping young children learn the game. But as much as I respect him for devoting that time, as Athletic Director this is entirely unacceptable.

Speak with the pocket books. If everyone called and said they wanted to cancel their season tickets and stopped going thing will change, as long as people are willing to cough up for tickets things will continue as they are. Don't worry, you won't have to wait to get season tickets, they are readily available already. That decade long waiting list went away 2 years ago. heck now they have to advertise the games...

[pokecheckguy2]

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

I think it's time to boycot the hockey games. If attendence drops to a few hundred a game the Admin will be forced to do something. Fire Schulman and Sneddon, which is too bad. I liked Schulman, he coached my daughters when they were 4 years old. Every Sat at the rink helping young children learn the game. But as much as I respect him for devoting that time, as Athletic Director this is entirely unacceptable.

Speak with the pocket books. If everyone called and said they wanted to cancel their season tickets and stopped going thing will change, as long as people are willing to cough up for tickets things will continue as they are. Don't worry, you won't have to wait to get season tickets, they are readily available already. That decade long waiting list went away 2 years ago. heck now they have to advertise the games...

agree! EMPTY THE GUTT! I'm no longer attending games after this and my tickets will not be renewed! enough is a enough! I hope many others do same but I feel truth of matter is too many people in the upper tax brackets use them as a way to be seen like they LA Laker fans or something or its no issue to them money wise and they just dont care about the crappy product on the ice so long as they get their free meal in the Bostwick room
Im not much of a social media guy but someone did send me links to Ted Ryans tweets yesterday about the contract
for one he sound super defensive about it no surprise there probably didnt like people telling him that the move was stupid but not his fault but hes boys with the coach and wont ever say he should be let go and second to me this is still fishy because if you agree on it why are you not saying it and then when it goes bad now use it as the vote of confidence and a big screw you to fans? seems to me they didnt want people to know and the pressure came down to both the AD and coach!
what a debacle this team is the laughingstock of college hockey great job Schulman thought you care about your schools reputation

[Catamount93]

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

Through all the ups and downs over 30 years of following UVM hockey on a game by game basis, this is the first time my enthusiasm for the team has really been challenged. Even the hazing scandals didn't feel like this for me.

Hoping it passes and I feel the excitement again.

[Vermont Ref]

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

Not going to games punishes the athletes. If you think it is their fault (which I don't think is the case) then why hurt the players, it will also hurt recruiting. Do you want to be part of the solution or problem. if you are dissatisfied then take your issues to the AD or above, including the trustees, but don't make it worse for the players, they may need us now more than ever.

What I have generally not been seeing is that extra hustle to beat the other player to the puck and 60 minutes of play; which is what often makes the difference. I don't know if that is all coaching, team leadership, or what causes it. Sometimes one or two players can bring a team down, just like one or two employees can to that. This team has talent, it just needs that extra desire. We also have a young defense, so I'm not surprised with the GAA, but am surprised we aren't scoring more.

I will continue to support the team, because I think that is what a true fan does - they are there for you no matter what.

I think it's time to boycot the hockey games. If attendence drops to a few hundred a game the Admin will be forced to do something. Fire Schulman and Sneddon, which is too bad. I liked Schulman, he coached my daughters when they were 4 years old. Every Sat at the rink helping young children learn the game. But as much as I respect him for devoting that time, as Athletic Director this is entirely unacceptable.

Speak with the pocket books. If everyone called and said they wanted to cancel their season tickets and stopped going thing will change, as long as people are willing to cough up for tickets things will continue as they are. Don't worry, you won't have to wait to get season tickets, they are readily available already. That decade long waiting list went away 2 years ago. heck now they have to advertise the games...

[VTALUM]

Not going to games punishes the athletes. If you think it is their fault (which I don't think is the case) then why hurt the players, it will also hurt recruiting. Do you want to be part of the solution or problem. if you are dissatisfied then take your issues to the AD or above, including the trustees, but don't make it worse for the players, they may need us now more than ever.

What I have generally not been seeing is that extra hustle to beat the other player to the puck and 60 minutes of play; which is what often makes the difference. I don't know if that is all coaching, team leadership, or what causes it. Sometimes one or two players can bring a team down, just like one or two employees can to that. This team has talent, it just needs that extra desire. We also have a young defense, so I'm not surprised with the GAA, but am surprised we aren't scoring more.

I will continue to support the team, because I think that is what a true fan does - they are there for you no matter what.

I won’t be attending because it’s not enjoyable to watch talented players work their asses off with no results. The Lowell color commentator mentioned a few times how disorganized and confused VT looked. It’s analogous to a marathon runner being faster and worker harder than everyone else in the race...only he’s on the wrong course. He loses every time.

[j24vt]

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

I think the constant reshuffling of the lines contributes to the on ice disorganization/confusion.

[VTALUM]

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

I think the constant reshuffling of the lines contributes to the on ice disorganization/confusion.

Absolutely agree.

[TeddySmooth]

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

What I have generally not been seeing is that extra hustle to beat the other player to the puck and 60 minutes of play; which is what often makes the difference. I don't know if that is all coaching, team leadership, or what causes it. Sometimes one or two players can bring a team down, just like one or two employees can to that. This team has talent, it just needs that extra desire. We also have a young defense, so I'm not surprised with the GAA, but am surprised we aren't scoring more.

This is what I notice more than anything. They don't win their share of puck battles. It's a 50/50 puck that they win maybe 20% of the time and that might be generous. If they even get a scoring chance, they're one and done. When they've been clicking offensively in recent years, it's because they're winning the battles and forcing turnovers on their offensive blue line.

[TovarishchLisa]

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

agree! EMPTY THE GUTT! I'm no longer attending games after this and my tickets will not be renewed! enough is a enough! I hope many others do same but I feel truth of matter is too many people in the upper tax brackets use them as a way to be seen like they LA Laker fans or something or its no issue to them money wise and they just dont care about the crappy product on the ice so long as they get their free meal in the Bostwick room
Im not much of a social media guy but someone did send me links to Ted Ryans tweets yesterday about the contract
for one he sound super defensive about it no surprise there probably didnt like people telling him that the move was stupid but not his fault but hes boys with the coach and wont ever say he should be let go and second to me this is still fishy because if you agree on it why are you not saying it and then when it goes bad now use it as the vote of confidence and a big screw you to fans? seems to me they didnt want people to know and the pressure came down to both the AD and coach!
what a debacle this team is the laughingstock of college hockey great job Schulman thought you care about your schools reputation

Honestly this is the first move Schulman's made that I 100% disagree with (maybe i'll change my mind if the lax teams don't improve or WBB still struggles once Day gets more of his recruits in). Problem is hockey is one of our major programs so that's a biiiiig error.

But this just speaks volumes about the lack of accountability here. Go back to media day, it's nothing but cliches and coachspeak, no media members holding the feet to the fire and asking good questions. And I'll accept that I'm partially to blame for this, as I was there that day (I'm still young so I'll chalk it up as a learning experience). And with this extension it seems there's no accountability from the athletic department to the coach. And from watching the games there's no accountability from the players to the coach or vice versa. One of the few results we did get this year (the draw with Brown) was with our captain in the press box, ffs!

And last night we get a commitment from an '03...why are they STILL OUT recruiting when we have big time problems NOW?

I'm still going to go to games, mostly because student admission is free. But I'm probably gonna spend more of my Gutt time at the women's games.

[jcarter7669]

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

Frankly talking to the AD doesn't seem to do much good. So that's not a viable stance. As for the players, I truly appreciate their effort but sometimes there is collateral damage. Sometimes you have to blow something up before you can rebuild it. Sneddon and Schulman should have thought about the players. Don't pin it on the fans because they don't want to watch a shoddy product.

The players should boycott a few games... the season is over anyways. Line up for the National Anthem and then refuse to play.

[Charlie Catamount]

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

I crunched some numbers that show the drop off between UVM and Sneddon's first 5 years in Hockey East, to the last 7.5 (full seasons + games through today). They are simple numbers, but I think they are telling. I only included teams that were consistently in Hockey East from the first year, to now, so these number don't really reflect the times the league was bigger with the additions of UConn and Notre Dame's time spent in the league. But again I think the numbers certainly paint a picture.

From the 2005-06 season when UVM joined HEA to the 2009-10 season UVM was 5th in overall win percentage, and 4th in HEA win percentage. They also were 4th in wins per season, and had an average league position of 5th place.

HEA 2005-2010 Overall Winning Percentage
BC .661
BU .643
UNH .623
Maine .530
Vermont .524
UMass Amherst .472
UMass Lowell .465
Northeastern .461
Providence .386
Merrimack .321

HEA 2005-2010 League Winning Percentage
UNH .677
BU .632
BC .607
Vermont .537
Maine .485
UMass Amherst .470
Northeastern .469
UMass Lowell .459
Providence .392
Merrimack .270

HEA 2005-2010 Average Wins Per Season
BC 25.4
BU 23.6
UNH 21.8
Vermont 18.4
Northeastern 17.4
Maine 16.2
UMass Amherst 16.2
UMass Lowell 15.4
Providence 11.6
Merrimack 9.2

From the 2010-11 season to present, among the 10 teams in the league at the start of UVM's admittance into HEA, UVM is 9th in overall win percentage, 9th in overall HEA win percentage, and 9th in wins per season, winning 4.3 less games per season.

HEA 2011-Present Overall Winning Percentage
BC .682
UMass Lowell .611
Providence .585
BU .577
Northeastern .510
UNH .508
Merrimack .484
Maine .464
Vermont .432
UMass Amherst .320

HEA 2011-Present League Winning Percentage
BC .716
BU .602
UMass Lowell .560
Providence .553
UNH .505
Northeastern .477
Merrimack .455
Maine .454
Vermont .373
UMass Amherst .282

HEA 2011-present Average Wins Per Season
BC 25.7
UMass Lowell 22.4
BU 20.5
Providence 17.0
UNH 17.4
Northeastern 16.3
Merrimack 15.4
Maine 14.8
Vermont 14.1
UMass Amherst 9.6

In that time frame, 6 of the 10 teams have changed coaches. 5 of those 6 schools that have changed coaches have surpassed or stayed above Vermont in each of these categories since making the changes.

So what does this tell you?

[Catamount93]

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

It tells me we are complacent and not motivated to improve.

There is very little pressure for them to improve, other than a few comments on this message board. As stated above, there are zero tough questions coming from the mainstream media....none. Reporting on the team is factual only...never any speculation about the future of the program, what it takes to do better, why they failed, etc. Our ADs seem to have always had endless patience, other ADs have next to none. It's small market thinking with small market results. North Dakota doesn't think small with their hockey program...why do we?

There is this feeling at UVM with sports that every tiny piece of athletic success is a joyous gift to be enjoyed but never expected...have fun when we win a few games because we can never expect to keep it up. Oh, we are on a good run now...lets all meet the team at the bus coming home and cheer, because we know it is unlikely to happen again soon. It was like that when I was there 30 years ago and it has been like that ever since. As long as that continues to be the lens that we look at our sports teams through, this will never change.

I live in Boston now, and I can tell you that coaches for these schools down here win or they get fired. Generally they win, but when it doesn't happen then adios.

The lack of aspiration for success is just demoralizing as an alum. UVM as an institution has exactly two (men's) sports you can follow with reasonable ease if you don't live in Vermont...basketball and hockey. If you don't try your best to be good at those, you are just alienating your alumni base. I can guarantee that any and all money spent on those two sports would come back twofold + in donations...sports are the only thing that really keep alumni attached to and thinking about their alma mater...it has been proven time and again at schools nationwide and UVM just doesn't get it.

[GreenCat]

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

I crunched some numbers that show the drop off between UVM and Sneddon's first 5 years in Hockey East, to the last 7.5 (full seasons + games through today). They are simple numbers, but I think they are telling. I only included teams that were consistently in Hockey East from the first year, to now, so these number don't really reflect the times the league was bigger with the additions of UConn and Notre Dame's time spent in the league. But again I think the numbers certainly paint a picture.

From the 2005-06 season when UVM joined HEA to the 2009-10 season UVM was 5th in overall win percentage, and 4th in HEA win percentage. They also were 4th in wins per season, and had an average league position of 5th place.

HEA 2005-2010 Overall Winning Percentage
BC .661
BU .643
UNH .623
Maine .530
Vermont .524
UMass Amherst .472
UMass Lowell .465
Northeastern .461
Providence .386
Merrimack .321

HEA 2005-2010 League Winning Percentage
UNH .677
BU .632
BC .607
Vermont .537
Maine .485
UMass Amherst .470
Northeastern .469
UMass Lowell .459
Providence .392
Merrimack .270

HEA 2005-2010 Average Wins Per Season
BC 25.4
BU 23.6
UNH 21.8
Vermont 18.4
Northeastern 17.4
Maine 16.2
UMass Amherst 16.2
UMass Lowell 15.4
Providence 11.6
Merrimack 9.2

From the 2010-11 season to present, among the 10 teams in the league at the start of UVM's admittance into HEA, UVM is 9th in overall win percentage, 9th in overall HEA win percentage, and 9th in wins per season, winning 4.3 less games per season.

HEA 2011-Present Overall Winning Percentage
BC .682
UMass Lowell .611
Providence .585
BU .577
Northeastern .510
UNH .508
Merrimack .484
Maine .464
Vermont .432
UMass Amherst .320

HEA 2011-Present League Winning Percentage
BC .716
BU .602
UMass Lowell .560
Providence .553
UNH .505
Northeastern .477
Merrimack .455
Maine .454
Vermont .373
UMass Amherst .282

HEA 2011-present Average Wins Per Season
BC 25.7
UMass Lowell 22.4
BU 20.5
Providence 17.0
UNH 17.4
Northeastern 16.3
Merrimack 15.4
Maine 14.8
Vermont 14.1
UMass Amherst 9.6

In that time frame, 6 of the 10 teams have changed coaches. 5 of those 6 schools that have changed coaches have surpassed or stayed above Vermont in each of these categories since making the changes.

So what does this tell you?

Thanks!! Those are very telling numbers...