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  • Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
    Thatís more or less how I feel as well. To me a hold is a negative given where things stand right now. Maine needs to bring in three legit top six forwards and it sounds like that isnít happening.

    Why do you think Red has had trouble finding top six forwards? Is it more an issue of identifying the right ones or missing out on them? To be fair, heís done a great job with goalies, Dmen, and bottom six forwards. In college hockey your top two lines oftentimes determine your success though.
    At least this past season, I feel like a lot of the blame falls at the feet of the 4th line. They really were just that bad, a possesion black hole and ended up pinned in the D zone nearly instantly whenever they hit the ice. I actually thought the 3rd line was pretty darn good last year, especially late; Ryan Smith played his behind off the last several games. The second line was hot and cold, though; when they were on, they played really well, but if they were cold they could be pretty brutal to watch. Its kind of perplexing why they weren't better honestly.

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    • Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
      Thatís more or less how I feel as well. To me a hold is a negative given where things stand right now. Maine needs to bring in three legit top six forwards and it sounds like that isnít happening.

      Why do you think Red has had trouble finding top six forwards? Is it more an issue of identifying the right ones or missing out on them? To be fair, heís done a great job with goalies, Dmen, and bottom six forwards. In college hockey your top two lines oftentimes determine your success though.
      I wonder if part of not getting top forwards is Reds dump and chase grind the boards style. Those guys might prefer quicker transition and moving the puck more getting set up. Pearson fit well with Reds style, Doherty is a good scrappy board guy, Robbins was quick and could get in deep on a dump, Fossier not so much, Tralmaks is a good physical deep guy. Vessey never seemed keen on the dump and grind for example.

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      • Re: UMaine Black Bears Recruiting

        Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
        Thatís more or less how I feel as well. To me a hold is a negative given where things stand right now. Maine needs to bring in three legit top six forwards and it sounds like that isnít happening.

        Why do you think Red has had trouble finding top six forwards? Is it more an issue of identifying the right ones or missing out on them? To be fair, heís done a great job with goalies, Dmen, and bottom six forwards. In college hockey your top two lines oftentimes determine your success though.
        I'm not sure what your definition of "legit top 6 forward" is? If you are looking for forwards currently in juniors that would come in and unseat Fossier, Doherty, Tralmaks, or JSS than there is only a handful of those players that exist and they are one and done which I do not believe is a good recruiting strategy for UMaine. As it stands now I expect Breen will occupy LW on the 2nd line (top 6) and Poisson will compete with Shea for 2nd line center (top 6). I don't think Red has had a problem recruiting top talent rather depth has been the issue. Depth is the same problem that has riddled the UMaine hockey program post-Standbrook. For example the Pearson line was as good as any in Hockey East last year. Perhaps by top you refer to style of play which i believe many UMaine fans have struggled with the transition in style of play from Whitehead's post-Standrbook era style of forward to the Gendron style which is more of a late 90's early 00's Walsh/Standbrook type of forward

        Where I believe Red has struggled, in particular early on is, scholarship allocation which stemmed from: A) his decision to honor all scholarships form the previous regime and B) he and his staff's lack of experience balancing the limited scholarships available year over year which ties your hands on the recruiting trail. As fans, it is important to come to terms with the fact that parity in college hockey is such now that a half scholarship here or there makes a HUGE difference. Just look at the Holway effect from this season! It puts a team at a massive disadvantage.
        UMaine Black Bears Recruit Info Site GO BLUE!!

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        • Re: UMaine Black Bears Recruiting

          Recruit Update: Xavier Henry will lace up the skates for Chilliwack (BCHL) next year. From a development perspective this is a good move for Xavier.

          https://chilliwackchiefs.net/chiefs-...muTox2cgTl1Hug
          UMaine Black Bears Recruit Info Site GO BLUE!!

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          • Re: UMaine Black Bears Recruiting

            How about a ďtop 6Ē forward is anyone remotely capable of getting to 100 career points. Havent really seen one. Fossier should get there if he stays.

            Dont particulalry care if they get them on the rush or by cycling the puck to death but I will say the supposed emphasis on size when the rest of the country is getting swifter has backfired and moved us backwards, and probably contributed to the penalty issues.

            Maine Hockey: I want to believe
            43-21-4 (.662) in games I attended over 4 years as a student
            104-47-14 (.669) in that time
            3x FROZEN FOUR

            11-20-2 in games I've attended since. (2-2-1 under Red)

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            • Re: UMaine Black Bears Recruiting

              Originally posted by BoSox3066 View Post
              How about a ďtop 6Ē forward is anyone remotely capable of getting to 100 career points. Havent really seen one. Fossier should get there if he stays.

              Dont particulalry care if they get them on the rush or by cycling the puck to death but I will say the supposed emphasis on size when the rest of the country is getting swifter has backfired and moved us backwards, and probably contributed to the penalty issues.
              I think that is as good a definition as any actually!! Of course would need to be standardized for going pro early by averaging years active. Top line forward above 100pts (25+average) second line 75-100pts (18.75-25 average). The list looks like this sorted by average point total, freshmen excluded (too little data).

              Fossier 86pts or 3yr ave = 28.6 pts
              Pearson 78pts or 3yr ave = 26 pts
              Tralmaks 42pts or 2yr ave = 21 pts
              Doherty 40pts or 2yr ave = 21 pts
              Vesey 82 pts or 4yr ave = 20.5 pts
              UMaine Black Bears Recruit Info Site GO BLUE!!

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              • Re: UMaine Black Bears Recruiting

                Originally posted by Bhall44 View Post
                I think that is as good a definition as any actually!! Of course would need to be standardized for going pro early by averaging years active. Top line forward above 100pts (25+average) second line 75-100pts (18.75-25 average). The list looks like this sorted by average point total, freshmen excluded (too little data).

                Fossier 86pts or 3yr ave = 28.6 pts
                Pearson 78pts or 3yr ave = 26 pts
                Tralmaks 42pts or 2yr ave = 21 pts
                Doherty 40pts or 2yr ave = 21 pts
                Vesey 82 pts or 4yr ave = 20.5 pts
                301 points will probably never get replicated.

                http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=3779

                Hard to believe PK scored in one season what it would take Pearson to do in 4 years.

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                • Originally posted by Bhall44 View Post
                  I think that is as good a definition as any actually!! Of course would need to be standardized for going pro early by averaging years active. Top line forward above 100pts (25+average) second line 75-100pts (18.75-25 average). The list looks like this sorted by average point total, freshmen excluded (too little data).

                  Fossier 86pts or 3yr ave = 28.6 pts
                  Pearson 78pts or 3yr ave = 26 pts
                  Tralmaks 42pts or 2yr ave = 21 pts
                  Doherty 40pts or 2yr ave = 21 pts
                  Vesey 82 pts or 4yr ave = 20.5 pts
                  I also like the definition. The issue as your post above clearly shows is that Maine doesnít have enough quality players. To be an NCAA team I would argue you need seven top six forwards. For Maine to just swap Pearson for Breen and hope Poisson is better than Robbins isnít enough. Iíd also point out that for three straight years (Pappalardo, Holesinsky, Dawe) Maine has had someone who has been way below expectations.
                  Originally posted by BobbyBrady
                  Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

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                  • Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
                    I also like the definition. The issue as your post above clearly shows is that Maine doesnít have enough quality players. To be an NCAA team I would argue you need seven top six forwards. For Maine to just swap Pearson for Breen and hope Poisson is better than Robbins isnít enough. Iíd also point out that for three straight years (Pappalardo, Holesinsky, Dawe) Maine has had someone who has been way below expectations.
                    Dawe was below expectations due to injury trouble. I know he didn't light up the score sheet, and that is what matters in the end, but watching the games the kid was all over the place and made a lot of good plays and created chances.

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                    • Re: UMaine Black Bears Recruiting

                      Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
                      I also like the definition. The issue as your post above clearly shows is that Maine doesnít have enough quality players. To be an NCAA team I would argue you need seven top six forwards. For Maine to just swap Pearson for Breen and hope Poisson is better than Robbins isnít enough. Iíd also point out that for three straight years (Pappalardo, Holesinsky, Dawe) Maine has had someone who has been way below expectations.
                      Why stop there? Shouldn't we get 12 top 6 forwards. That makes the most sense. And 6 top 3 defensemen. And 2 top 1 goalies.

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                      • Re: UMaine Black Bears Recruiting

                        Originally posted by amkirby10 View Post
                        Dawe was below expectations due to injury trouble. I know he didn't light up the score sheet, and that is what matters in the end, but watching the games the kid was all over the place and made a lot of good plays and created chances.
                        Dawe is a gamer with heart and grit and you can't teach that...if he stays healthy he can be a added plus for Maine next season, doing all the little things people miss or don't care about...he plays each and every shift.

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                        • Re: UMaine Black Bears Recruiting

                          Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
                          I also like the definition. The issue as your post above clearly shows is that Maine doesnít have enough quality players.
                          Which is exactly what my depth thesis previously stated. Quality players = depth. However I will certainly add, as others like Drew have pointed out, there was a top 6 talent issue at one position as well! Here are this seasons predominant line combos. Three glaring weaknesses. Which highlight both a depth issue ANDa top 6 issue. Which, statistically speaking, is likely how you get an average hockey team like Maine LOL!

                          Fossier JR 28.6
                          Pearson JR 26
                          Tralmaks SO 21
                          75.6 pts

                          Robbins SR 16.25
                          Doherty SO 20
                          JSS FR 14
                          50.25 pts (ideal is 18 x 3 = 54 pts)

                          Shea JR 14.6
                          Smith JR 8.3
                          Westerlund SO 11
                          33.9 pts (shooting for 12 x 3 = 36 pts)

                          Perez SR 4.75
                          Quinlivan SO 2
                          Dawe FR 14 (7 actual pts; multiplied by 2 to project if he played full season instead of half season
                          20.75 pts (shooting for 8 x 3 = 24 pts)

                          1) 2nd line LW: a senior averaging 16 pts across his 4 years would be an above average 3rd liner vs. below average 2nd liner. As a freshmen JSS gets a pass for falling below the 18 point requirement of a second liner our metrics focus on career average and first year production is typically, though not always, your lowest career production. Overall i think consensus amongst fans is this line did not have a good year.

                          2) 3rd line RW: As it was our 3rd line often outperformed opposing teams 3rd line and was often a strength. However I like to focus on maximizing productivity. let me state that this is not a knock on Ryan Smith rather a, in my book a line combo strategy critique. Smith is an exceptional 4th line RW and PKer. He had arguably his best season at Maine. However he doesn't create offense. you need offense from your third line and pairing up Adam Dawe's playmaking vision with Shea's speed and Westerlund's one-timer would have likely led to more production from 3rd line. In fact these guys shifted on a couple of occassions this year and the dynamic potential was visible but resulted in near misses and no points. With some more time together I believe more production was inevitable. All rendered moot was Dawezy was knocked senseless against Northeastern.

                          3) 4th line production: This has been critiqued a million times across all Maine threads. The data backs it up. Nothing more to be said other than a healthy Pieper would have been immensely beneficial here.

                          Hindsight is 20/20 but to have corrected these weaknessess Red & Co would either have to:
                          A) Have recruited a more talented player than Robbins to fill the 2nd line LW spot - what I am now referring to as the "top 6 issue thesis" - which possibly would have been rectified had the Ben Meyers debacle been avoided and he arrived in Orono this past season. (a quick aside - recently the Meyers situation was replicated with Craig Needham and Red & Co has set themselves up once again next winter to have the situation resurface!!!! another example of the roster management weakness early mentioned). This would have allowed for slotting Robbins in as 3rd line LW and Westerlund as 4th line LW. Do this and Maine is improved.

                          or

                          B) Have recruited more production at 4th line LW or C than Perez or Quinlivan. Misfortune with Pieper injury did not help here either but also highlights the importance of depth. This route is certainly more easy and cheaper than luring top 6 talent. Do this and Maine improves.

                          or

                          C) Ideally we want to see both A & B be true. Which is obviously what championship teams do and what all of us UMaine fans want to see happen.... we can only hope

                          Thanks for all the great conversation, insight, and activity on the thread today. Lots of fun
                          UMaine Black Bears Recruit Info Site GO BLUE!!

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                          • Re: UMaine Black Bears Recruiting

                            Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
                            Do you think Osadick, Morrisey, or Sasson will come in next season? Where do you see Roy fitting in?
                            Boy I really wonder about Osadick after what happened to Dawe this year. Does anyone think he's too small to make it? Elite Prospects shows he's 5' 6" and 130 lbs! Yikes.

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                            • Re: UMaine Black Bears Recruiting

                              Originally posted by dogtagger View Post
                              Boy I really wonder about Osadick after what happened to Dawe this year. Does anyone think he's too small to make it? Elite Prospects shows he's 5' 6" and 130 lbs! Yikes.
                              That is outdated. He is actually 5'11" 170 as of October 2018.
                              UMaine Black Bears Recruit Info Site GO BLUE!!

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                              • Re: UMaine Black Bears Recruiting

                                Originally posted by dogtagger View Post
                                Boy I really wonder about Osadick after what happened to Dawe this year. Does anyone think he's too small to make it? Elite Prospects shows he's 5' 6" and 130 lbs! Yikes.
                                You must be thinking of Kawamura, he is small. I wonder if Kawamura ever makes it to Maine.

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