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**Ralph Baer** · 03-14-2021, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post

Interesting. Of course, I highly doubt it was WMU's choice that they did not play any other Michigan teams (and of course, could have played Michigan teams in tournament play).

Hopefully the Belt doesn't end up in the hands of a team that drops hockey. They'll have it forever. ; )

Do you think that Cornell will drop hockey? RPI certainly could which would affect two of the Play-up belts, however then I would leave here.

**Fighting Sioux 23** · 03-14-2021, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post

Do you think that Cornell will drop hockey? RPI certainly could which would affect two of the Play-up belts, however then I would leave here.

I certainly hope not...for any of the above-referenced hypothetical future events.

That being said, if we're not stripping the Belt from teams that are not playing, then we could run into such a scenario down the road where a team holds the Belt (or any of the belts), drops hockey, and then would hold onto such belt in perpetuity.

**Ralph Baer** · 03-14-2021, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post

I certainly hope not...for any of the above-referenced hypothetical future events.

That being said, if we're not stripping the Belt from teams that are not playing, then we could run into such a scenario down the road where a team holds the Belt (or any of the belts), drops hockey, and then would hold onto such belt in perpetuity.

In either situation we would have to start a new belt. The question is when.

We have had several cases of teams having belts and then not being eligible. E.g. Notre Dame had the HEA belt when they left. Also MSU had the WCHA Belt when they went to the CCHA. In both cases a new belt was started but the team that left eventually lost the original. I don't recall a team having a belt and then dropping hockey.

**Fighting Sioux 23** · 03-14-2021, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post

In either situation we would have to start a new belt. The question is when.

We have had several cases of teams having belts and then not being eligible. E.g. Notre Dame had the HEA belt when they left. Also MSU had the WCHA Belt when they went to the CCHA. In both cases a new belt was started but the team that left eventually lost the original. I don't recall a team having a belt and then dropping hockey.

Yeah, it presents difficulties no matter what route is selected. In other belt-contested sports, in the event the titleholder is stripped of the title, there is a title match shortly thereafter. We don't really have that in college hockey, unless we were to strip Cornell at the start of the NCAA Tournament, hold it vacant, and then award it to whoever wins the NCAA Tournament.

I guess I just struggle with the idea that whoever wins the NCAA Tournament doesn't get the Belt (just an alternate). But, of course, I suppose the same could happen any season if the beltholder fails to qualify for its conference tournament.

**Ralph Baer** · 03-14-2021, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post

Yeah, it presents difficulties no matter what route is selected. In other belt-contested sports, in the event the titleholder is stripped of the title, there is a title match shortly thereafter. We don't really have that in college hockey, unless we were to strip Cornell at the start of the NCAA Tournament, hold it vacant, and then award it to whoever wins the NCAA Tournament.

I guess I just struggle with the idea that whoever wins the NCAA Tournament doesn't get the Belt (just an alternate). But, of course, I suppose the same could happen any season if the beltholder fails to qualify for its conference tournament.

Several times the Belt holder did not make the NCAA tourney, and and an alternate was created: 1949, 1951, 1952, 1959, 1975, 1980, 1982, and 1986. I note that three of those are North Dakota which explains why you are finding fault. :-D See the early posts on this thread. I personally regard those alternate belts as more significant than those awarded for shootouts. Also the lack of interleague play this year makes most everything suspect.

Lastly, I have no real love for Cornell. I entered RPI in the fall of 1964. So the Juniors and Seniors remembered Harkness and regarded him as a traitor and this was passed on to the entering classes. Things have mellowed over the years, and after Harkness retired from hockey he was honored by RPI on a couple of occasions. One of my fondest memories was in the fall of 1968-69 when RPI upset a Harkness-coached Cornell in overtime. RPI duplicated the feat two years later, but Harkness was no longer coach.

**Fighting Sioux 23** · 03-14-2021, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post

Several times the Belt holder did not make the NCAA tourney, and and an alternate was created: 1949, 1951, 1952, 1959, 1975, 1980, 1982, and 1986. I note that three of those are North Dakota which explains why you are finding fault. :-D See the early posts on this thread. I personally regard those alternate belts as more significant than those awarded for shootouts. Also the lack of interleague play this year makes most everything suspect.

Lastly, I have no real love for Cornell. I entered RPI in the fall of 1964. So the Juniors and Seniors remembered Harkness and regarded him as a traitor and this was passed on to the entering classes. Things have mellowed over the years, and after Harkness retired from hockey he was honored by RPI on a couple of occasions. One of my fondest memories was in the fall of 1968-69 when RPI upset a Harkness-coached Cornell in overtime. RPI duplicated the feat two years later, but Harkness was no longer coach.

Well, I guess if North Dakota can continue its tradition of winning alternate belts/national titles, I'll let the Cornell Belt fiasco slide. : - p

**Ralph Baer** · 03-14-2021, 09:50 PM

Sunday update

Code:

                   Current Holder         Next Defense
The Belt           Cornell                2021-22
The Belt Alt 3x3   Wisconsin              Penn State 03/15/2021
The Belt Alt SO    Mass Lowell            Boston College 03/17/2021
AHC Belt           Army                   Canisius 03/19/2021
B1G Belt           Wisconsin              Penn State 03/15/2021
B1G Belt Alt 3x3   Minnesota              Michigan 03/15/2021
BIG Belt SO        Penn State             Wisconsin 03/15/2021
ECAC Belt          Cornell                2021-22
HEA Belt           Mass Lowell            Boston College 03/17/2021
NCHC Belt          Minnesota Duluth       St. Cloud 03/15/2021
WCHA Belt          Northern Michigan      Minnesota State 03/19/2021
Ivy Belt           Cornell                2021-22
New England Belt   Mass Lowell            Boston College 03/17/2021
Connecticut Belt   Quinnipiac             NCAA Tourney at earliest
Massachusetts Belt Mass Lowell            Boston College 03/17/2021
Michigan Belt      Michigan Tech          WCHA Tourney at earliest
Minnesota Belt     Minnesota              NCAA Tourney at earliest
New York Belt      Cornell                2021-22
D II Play up Belt  Minnesota State        WCHA Tourney at earliest
D II P u Alt SO    American International AHA Tourney at earliest
D III Play up Belt Rensselaer             2021-22
Play up Belt       Rensselaer             2021-22

Corrections are always appreciated.
The winner of the NCAA tourney will get an alternate Belt because Cornell won't be defending. The two existing alternates, held by UW and UML, should be absorbed into it. Also the winner of the ECAC tourney will get an alternate ECAC Belt.

**Ralph Baer** · 03-15-2021, 11:15 PM

Monday update

Code:

                   Current Holder         Next Defense
The Belt           Cornell                2021-22
The Belt Alt 3x3   Wisconsin              Minnesota 03/16/2021
The Belt Alt SO    Mass Lowell            Boston College 03/17/2021
AHC Belt           Army                   Canisius 03/19/2021
B1G Belt           Wisconsin              Minnesota 03/16/2021
B1G Belt Alt 3x3   Minnesota              Wisconsin 03/16/2021
ECAC Belt          Cornell                2021-22
HEA Belt           Mass Lowell            Boston College 03/17/2021
NCHC Belt          St. Cloud              North Dakota 03/16/2021
WCHA Belt          Northern Michigan      Minnesota State 03/19/2021
Ivy Belt           Cornell                2021-22
New England Belt   Mass Lowell            Boston College 03/17/2021
Connecticut Belt   Quinnipiac             NCAA Tourney at earliest
Massachusetts Belt Mass Lowell            Boston College 03/17/2021
Michigan Belt      Michigan Tech          2021-22
Minnesota Belt     Minnesota              NCAA Tourney at earliest
New York Belt      Cornell                2021-22
D II Play up Belt  Minnesota State        Northern Michigan 03/19/2021
D II P u Alt SO    American International AHA Tourney at earliest
D III Play up Belt Rensselaer             2021-22
Play up Belt       Rensselaer             2021-22

Corrections are always appreciated.
The winner of the NCAA tourney will get an alternate Belt because Cornell won't be defending. The existing alternates will be absorbed into it. Also the winner of the ECAC tourney will get an alternate ECAC Belt.

**Ralph Baer** · 03-16-2021, 11:41 PM

Tuesday update

Code:

                   Current Holder         Next Defense
The Belt           Cornell                2021-22
The Belt Alt 3x3   Minnesota              NCAA Tourney
The Belt Alt SO    Mass Lowell            Boston College 03/17/2021
AHC Belt           Army                   Canisius 03/19/2021
B1G Belt           Minnesota              NCAA Tourney at earliest
ECAC Belt          Cornell                2021-22
HEA Belt           Mass Lowell            Boston College 03/17/2021
NCHC Belt          North Dakota           NCAA Tourney at earliest
WCHA Belt          Northern Michigan      Minnesota State 03/19/2021
Ivy Belt           Cornell                2021-22
New England Belt   Mass Lowell            Boston College 03/17/2021
Connecticut Belt   Quinnipiac             NCAA Tourney at earliest
Massachusetts Belt Mass Lowell            Boston College 03/17/2021
Michigan Belt      Michigan Tech          2021-22
Minnesota Belt     Minnesota              NCAA Tourney at earliest
New York Belt      Cornell                2021-22
D II Play up Belt  Minnesota State        Northern Michigan 03/19/2021
D II P u Alt SO    American International AHA Tourney at earliest
D III Play up Belt Rensselaer             2021-22
Play up Belt       Rensselaer             2021-22

Corrections are always appreciated.
The winner of the NCAA tourney will get an alternate Belt because Cornell won't be defending. The existing alternates will be absorbed into it. Also the winner of the ECAC tourney will get an alternate ECAC Belt.

**Ralph Baer** · 03-18-2021, 12:33 AM

Wednesday update

Code:

                   Current Holder         Next Defense
The Belt           Cornell                2021-22
The Belt Alt 3x3   Minnesota              NCAA Tourney
The Belt Alt SO    Mass Lowell            Massachusetts 03/20/2021
AHC Belt           Army                   Canisius 03/19/2021
B1G Belt           Minnesota              NCAA Tourney at earliest
ECAC Belt          Cornell                2021-22
HEA Belt           Mass Lowell            Massachusetts 03/20/2021
NCHC Belt          North Dakota           NCAA Tourney at earliest
WCHA Belt          Northern Michigan      Minnesota State 03/19/2021
Ivy Belt           Cornell                2021-22
New England Belt   Mass Lowell            Massachusetts 03/20/2021
Connecticut Belt   Quinnipiac             NCAA Tourney at earliest
Massachusetts Belt Mass Lowell            Massachusetts 03/20/2021
Michigan Belt      Michigan Tech          2021-22
Minnesota Belt     Minnesota              NCAA Tourney at earliest
New York Belt      Cornell                2021-22
D II Play up Belt  Minnesota State        Northern Michigan 03/19/2021
D II P u Alt SO    American International AHA Tourney at earliest
D III Play up Belt Rensselaer             2021-22
Play up Belt       Rensselaer             2021-22

Corrections are always appreciated.
The winner of the NCAA tourney will get an alternate Belt because Cornell won't be defending. The existing alternates will be absorbed into it. Also the winner of the ECAC tourney will get an alternate ECAC Belt.

**Ralph Baer** · 03-19-2021, 10:48 PM

Friday update

Code:

                   Current Holder         Next Defense
The Belt           Cornell                2021-22
The Belt Alt 3x3   Minnesota              NCAA Tourney
The Belt Alt SO    Mass Lowell            Massachusetts 03/20/2021
AHC Belt           Canisius               American International 03/20/2021
B1G Belt           Minnesota              NCAA Tourney at earliest
ECAC Belt          Cornell                2021-22
HEA Belt           Mass Lowell            Massachusetts 03/20/2021
NCHC Belt          North Dakota           NCAA Tourney at earliest
WCHA Belt          Northern Michigan      Lake Superior State 03/20/2021
Ivy Belt           Cornell                2021-22
New England Belt   Mass Lowell            Massachusetts 03/20/2021
Connecticut Belt   Quinnipiac             NCAA Tourney at earliest
Massachusetts Belt Mass Lowell            Massachusetts 03/20/2021
Michigan Belt      Michigan Tech          2021-22
Minnesota Belt     Minnesota              NCAA Tourney at earliest
New York Belt      Cornell                2021-22
D II Play up Belt  Northern Michigan      Lake Superior State 03/20/2021
D II P u Alt SO    American International NCAA Tourney at earliest
D III Play up Belt Rensselaer             2021-22
Play up Belt       Rensselaer             2021-22

Corrections are always appreciated.
The winner of the NCAA tourney will get an alternate Belt because Cornell won't be defending. The existing alternates will be absorbed into it. Also the winner of the ECAC tourney will get an alternate ECAC Belt.

**Ralph Baer** · 03-21-2021, 12:26 AM

Saturday update

Code:

                   Current Holder         Next Defense
The Belt           Cornell                2021-22
The Belt Alt 3x3   Minnesota              NCAA Tourney
The Belt Alt SO    Massachusetts          NCAA Tourney
AHC Belt           American International 2021-22
B1G Belt           Minnesota              NCAA Tourney at earliest
ECAC Belt          Cornell                2021-22
ECAC Alt Belt      St. Lawrence           NCAA Tourney at earliest
HEA Belt           Massachusetts          NCAA Tourney at earliest
NCHC Belt          North Dakota           NCAA Tourney at earliest
WCHA Belt          Lake Superior State    NCAA Tourney at earliest
Ivy Belt           Cornell                2021-22
New England Belt   Massachusetts          NCAA Tourney at earliest
Connecticut Belt   Quinnipiac             NCAA Tourney at earliest
Massachusetts Belt Massachusetts          NCAA Tourney at earliest
Michigan Belt      Michigan Tech          2021-22
Minnesota Belt     Minnesota              NCAA Tourney at earliest
New York Belt      Cornell                2021-22
D II Play up Belt  Lake Superior State    NCAA Tourney at earliest
D II P u Alt SO    American International NCAA Tourney at earliest
D III Play up Belt Rensselaer             2021-22
Play up Belt       Rensselaer             2021-22

Corrections are always appreciated.
The winner of the NCAA tourney will get an alternate Belt because Cornell won't be defending. The existing alternates will be absorbed into it.

**Ralph Baer** · 03-21-2021, 10:58 PM

added known next games

Code:

                   Current Holder         Next Defense
The Belt           Cornell                2021-22
The Belt Alt 3x3   Minnesota              Nebraska Omaha 03/27/2021
The Belt Alt SO    Massachusetts          Lake Superior 03/26/2021
AHC Belt           American International 2021-22
B1G Belt           Minnesota              NCAA Tourney at earliest
ECAC Belt          Cornell                2021-22
ECAC Alt Belt      St. Lawrence           2021-22
HEA Belt           Massachusetts          NCAA Tourney at earliest
NCHC Belt          North Dakota           NCAA Tourney at earliest
WCHA Belt          Lake Superior State    NCAA Tourney at earliest
Ivy Belt           Cornell                2021-22
New England Belt   Massachusetts          NCAA Tourney at earliest
Connecticut Belt   Quinnipiac             2021-22
Massachusetts Belt Massachusetts          NCAA Tourney at earliest
Michigan Belt      Michigan Tech          2021-22
Minnesota Belt     Minnesota              NCAA Tourney at earliest
New York Belt      Cornell                2021-22
D II Play up Belt  Lake Superior State    NCAA Tourney at earliest
D II P u Alt SO    American International NCAA Tourney at earliest
D III Play up Belt Rensselaer             2021-22
Play up Belt       Rensselaer             2021-22

Corrections are always appreciated.
The winner of the NCAA tourney will get an alternate Belt because Cornell won't be defending. The existing alternates will be absorbed into it.

**Ralph Baer** · 03-27-2021, 12:39 AM

Friday update

Code:

                   Current Holder         Next Defense
The Belt           Cornell                2021-22
The Belt Alt 3x3   Minnesota              Nebraska Omaha 03/27/2021
The Belt Alt SO    Massachusetts          Bemidji State 03/27/2021
AHC Belt           American International 2021-22
B1G Belt           Minnesota              2021-22
ECAC Belt          Cornell                2021-22
ECAC Alt Belt      St. Lawrence           2021-22
HEA Belt           Massachusetts          NCAA Tourney at earliest
NCHC Belt          North Dakota           Minnesota Duluth 03/27/2021
WCHA Belt          Lake Superior State    2021-22
Ivy Belt           Cornell                2021-22
New England Belt   Massachusetts          NCAA Tourney at earliest
Connecticut Belt   Quinnipiac             2021-22
Massachusetts Belt Massachusetts          NCAA Tourney at earliest
Michigan Belt      Michigan Tech          2021-22
Minnesota Belt     Minnesota              NCAA Tourney at earliest
New York Belt      Cornell                2021-22
D II Play up Belt  Lake Superior State    2021-22
D II P u Alt SO    American International 2021-22
D III Play up Belt Rensselaer             2021-22
Play up Belt       Rensselaer             2021-22

Corrections are always appreciated.
The winner of the NCAA tourney will get an alternate Belt because Cornell won't be defending. The existing alternates will be absorbed into it.

**Fighting Sioux 23** · 03-27-2021, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post

Friday update

Code:

 Current Holder Next Defense
The Belt Cornell 2021-22
The Belt Alt 3x3 Minnesota Nebraska Omaha 03/27/2021
The Belt Alt SO Massachusetts Bemidji State 03/27/2021
AHC Belt American International 2021-22
B1G Belt Minnesota 2021-22
ECAC Belt Cornell 2021-22
ECAC Alt Belt St. Lawrence 2021-22
HEA Belt Massachusetts NCAA Tourney at earliest
NCHC Belt North Dakota NCAA Tourney at earliest
WCHA Belt Lake Superior State 2021-22
Ivy Belt Cornell 2021-22
New England Belt Massachusetts NCAA Tourney at earliest
Connecticut Belt Quinnipiac 2021-22
Massachusetts Belt Massachusetts NCAA Tourney at earliest
Michigan Belt Michigan Tech 2021-22
Minnesota Belt Minnesota NCAA Tourney at earliest
New York Belt Cornell 2021-22
D II Play up Belt Lake Superior State 2021-22
D II P u Alt SO American International 2021-22
D III Play up Belt Rensselaer 2021-22
Play up Belt Rensselaer 2021-22

Corrections are always appreciated.
The winner of the NCAA tourney will get an alternate Belt because Cornell won't be defending. The existing alternates will be absorbed into it.

NCHC Belt on the line this afternoon, as North Dakota takes on Minnesota Duluth.

Also, and I apologize if this has been asked before, but what is the most number of belts played for in any one particular game? We could have a 6-belt melee in the National Title game if its Boston College v. Massachusetts, with the following on the line:

The Belt Alternate (newly created for the NCAA Tournament Champion)
The Belt Alt 3x3 (obviously would ultimately be merged) - would be in BC's possession heading into title game
The Belt Alt SO (also ultimately merged) - would be in Massachusetts' possession heading into title game
HEA Belt - would be in Massachusetts' possession heading into title game
Massachusetts Belt - would be in Massachusetts' possession heading into title game
New England Belt - would be in Massachusetts' possession heading into title game

Hopefully it doesn't come to this, but I was curious. ; )

Further, what is the criterion for tracking a state belt? At least x number of teams? Someone cares enough to have done the research to track it down?

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