World Juniors -- Anybody? Bueller?

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Anyone know what the pools like next year?

I know USA, Canada are forced together in one pool for New Year's Eve game.

So Russia and Sweden should headline other pool. I'm guessing 5th place is Denmark as the highest seed quarterfinal joins them. Slovakia goes in with US and Canada. Switzerland goes to Russia/Sweden pool and Czech goes with US Canada. Finland to Sweden group and Belarus to US?

Leaving us USA, Canada, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Belarus
Sweden, Russia, Switzerland, Denmark and Finland.

I think?

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: World Juniors -- Anybody? Bueller?

I got to hold one of the player awarded medals for USA yesterday. I was so thrilled my hands were shaking!

[CLS]

Re: World Juniors -- Anybody? Bueller?

...
... [I]f you’ve played 80 minutes of hockey or 120 minutes of soccer, you’ve had ample time to have a definitive winner identified. Any goal beyond that, while dramatic, is hardly a clear indication of the better team. It’s basically random azz chance at that point.

You seem to be confusing "definitive winner" with "better team". These are different concepts. If the game is tied, by definition you haven't had ample time to have a definitive winner. A shootout definitely provides a definitive winner, as would going to a shootout at the end of regulation or flipping a coin. We're not arguing about the need for a definitive winner. We're arguing about how that definitive winner is determined. As for a very long game not determining the better team, I agree. But I'd argue that a single, tightly contested, evenly played game doesn't determine the better team either. So what?

Not to mention the chance of injury going up as the players get tired, lose focus, are less able to protect themselves.

This has logical appeal, but I'm not sure it's backed up by data. I've seen some pretty long games, and I've heard rumors of players getting dehydrated and needing IVs, but I've never seen a fatigue-related injury. Of course the longer you play, the more likely you are to get hurt, but that would be true if you suspended the game and continued it the next day. And in overtime, players tend not to engage in the reckless play that often result in injury; penalties are just too risky. Fatigue-related brain farts (e.g. too many men penalties like we saw the other night)? Sure, but maintaining focus is a skill, just like stickhandling and defensive positioning.

It’s one thing to ask grown men being paid millions of dollars to play 90 or more minutes of high intensity hockey, it’s entirely another thing to ask unpaid kids to do it.

Who's asking who? While there's no way of settling this bet, I'd wager that if, at the conclusion of the first overtime, you asked the players and coaches, “Do you want to decide this with a shootout, or do you want to keep playing?” I'd guess, the answer would not have been just “Yes” to continuing playing, but “H E L L yes.”

As talented as the players are in the WJC, they’re still kids, who for the most part still aren’t playing hockey for a living, quite yet.

Most (admittedly not all) of them are adults in every reasonable sense of the word; they can get married, die in wars, vote, or enter into binding contracts. Heck, since the tournament was in Canada, they could probably even buy a drink.

[Split-N]

Re: World Juniors -- Anybody? Bueller?

...I was a high school basketball referee for 17 years. It is VERY political and just getting to a playoff game is a tremendous accomplishment. At least they rate you on merit now and you have a shot. Back in the day you had no chance unless you "knew" enough people....

Good point. To their credit, both USA Hockey and Hockey Canada invest significant resources in officiating development programs that roughly parallel the player development programs. Invariably, the cream rises to the top. The "old boy" network is still hanging on, especially in the east, but is losing its grip. Good riddance!

[walrus]

Re: World Juniors -- Anybody? Bueller?

Replay starts at 2pm on NHL net

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: World Juniors -- Anybody? Bueller?

This not just in: FlagDUDE reads at a 5th grade level.

The logic, which you've mangled, of course, is that college shouldn't play an unlimited number of overtime periods.

This just in: E.J. Smith doesn't recognize an obvious and sarcastic troll.

[joecct]

I’m trying to figure out what axe it is that you’re overreaching so desperately to grind. Is it just straight up Europhobia, or is it more than that? PKs and shoot out are hardly a European conspiracy against world sports. In England, in the FA Cup, if a match is tied they replay the entire match at a later date. Endurance sports are far more popular in Europe than they are here – x country skiing, cycling – Tour de France? 5 or 6 hour stages? Ring any bells? Haven’t even mentioned cricket where they can take days to play matches.

Along those lines, have you heard of this thing called television? (I’m fairly certain you’d howl if the Euros claimed that as their invention.) You don’t think TV, and its money, have anything to do with this?

Beyond that, if you’ve played 80 minutes of hockey or 120 minutes of soccer, you’ve had ample time to have a definitive winner identified. Any goal beyond that, while dramatic, is hardly a clear indication of the better team. It’s basically random azz chance at that point.

Not to mention the chance of injury going up as the players get tired, lose focus, are less able to protect themselves. It’s one thing to ask grown men being paid millions of dollars to play 90 or more minutes of high intensity hockey, it’s entirely another thing to ask unpaid kids to do it. As talented as the players are in the WJC, they’re still kids, who for the most part still aren’t playing hockey for a living, quite yet.

FA Cup final goes to PKs. T20 cricket goes to a SuperOver (ODIs and Tests play ties).

The point being the IIHF, being Eurocentric, has no trouble with GWS. USA Hockey and Hockey Canada want a playing conclusion and will play until it happens.

[St. Clown]

Re: World Juniors -- Anybody? Bueller?

Gang

North Americans have no objection to games lasting forever. None of the sports that started and are played here have a skills competition to end it. We like it and revel in marathon games.

Euros don't subscribe to our way of thinking and it shows in their championships are designed to fit in a set time slot.

Soccer champions are decided on PKs, too.

Hockey is a North American born sport, joe, and is played in North America.

Otherwise, I agree with the sentiment. It's an international tournament, and they're handling this the same way the Olympics does and the largest international sports org in the world does, FIFA, along with almost all - if not all - soccer leagues do. People need to just get over it. It's not how I'd like for a tournament winner to be declared, it's not how most people in the US and Canada want a game to end, but the sport doesn't revolve around what one or two nations want.

[Split-N]

Re: World Juniors -- Anybody? Bueller?

...So a game leading to a world championship is decided by a circus sideshow instead of by skating, shooting, stickhandling, passing, bodychecking, and all the other skills that comprise the game of hockey. I hope and pray the NCAA never stoops to this kind of nonsense to decide hockey championships.

It's bad manners to quote yourself. But for every rule there's an exception, and this is it. Without casting aspersions on the epic performances of players on both teams (even those from BU), winning a world championship by shootout is a little like doing business with a lady of the evening: It feels good but you feel a little dirty. (Not that I'd personally know anything about that .)

I'd go on to rant against the FIFA wannabes that run the IIHF but they're in a hurry to get back to the good life in Switzerland.

[E.J. Smith]

Re: World Juniors -- Anybody? Bueller?

This just in: College players should be paid because they use playoff overtime rules.

This not just in: FlagDUDE reads at a 5th grade level.

The logic, which you've mangled, of course, is that college shouldn't play an unlimited number of overtime periods.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: World Juniors -- Anybody? Bueller?

it’s entirely another thing to ask unpaid kids to do it.

This just in: College players should be paid because they use playoff overtime rules.

[E.J. Smith]

Re: World Juniors -- Anybody? Bueller?

Gang

North Americans have no objection to games lasting forever. None of the sports that started and are played here have a skills competition to end it. We like it and revel in marathon games.

Euros don't subscribe to our way of thinking and it shows in their championships are designed to fit in a set time slot.

Soccer champions are decided on PKs, too.

I’m trying to figure out what axe it is that you’re overreaching so desperately to grind. Is it just straight up Europhobia, or is it more than that? PKs and shoot out are hardly a European conspiracy against world sports. In England, in the FA Cup, if a match is tied they replay the entire match at a later date. Endurance sports are far more popular in Europe than they are here – x country skiing, cycling – Tour de France? 5 or 6 hour stages? Ring any bells? Haven’t even mentioned cricket where they can take days to play matches.

Along those lines, have you heard of this thing called television? (I’m fairly certain you’d howl if the Euros claimed that as their invention.) You don’t think TV, and its money, have anything to do with this?

Beyond that, if you’ve played 80 minutes of hockey or 120 minutes of soccer, you’ve had ample time to have a definitive winner identified. Any goal beyond that, while dramatic, is hardly a clear indication of the better team. It’s basically random azz chance at that point.

Not to mention the chance of injury going up as the players get tired, lose focus, are less able to protect themselves. It’s one thing to ask grown men being paid millions of dollars to play 90 or more minutes of high intensity hockey, it’s entirely another thing to ask unpaid kids to do it. As talented as the players are in the WJC, they’re still kids, who for the most part still aren’t playing hockey for a living, quite yet.

[Bomber]

Stayed home from my hockey to watch that.

Epic choice executed perfectly.

Chose wisely, you did. Nailed the landing.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: World Juniors -- Anybody? Bueller?

Soccer champions are decided on PKs, too.

As they are in North America. That's how the WNY Flash won this year. At least it's not a "no golden goal" situation.

[joecct]

Re: World Juniors -- Anybody? Bueller?

Gang

North Americans have no objection to games lasting forever. None of the sports that started and are played here have a skills competition to end it. We like it and revel in marathon games.

Euros don't subscribe to our way of thinking and it shows in their championships are designed to fit in a set time slot.

Soccer champions are decided on PKs, too.