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UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
    IIRC Grasso hasn't exactly been lighting it up recently. I don't think Salvaggio or McNicholas have done anything to deserve getting knocked down (just yet). I mean, we're not talking MacDonald or Smith here. Kelleher hasn't missed a beat so far this season, even after both of his linemates from last season (Correale and what's his name?) moved on. Keeping Salvaggio and McNick together also arguably sets things up to keep them together next season, while plugging in Kelleher's replacement (?!) to slot in with both of them.

    Grasso and TyK on the power play is one thing ... two undersized guys together on the same line at full strength, heading into the meat of the HE schedule, I don't think that's in the best interests of the team (although *maybe* it pads Kelleher's stats). Entertaining, yes. Successful winning (or at least competitive) two-way hockey? Unlikely. JMHO.



    Nothingness, no. Underappreciated, definitely. I can guarantee you, in 10 or 20 years from now, no one on here is going to be waxing poetic about how wonderful and exciting the final years of the Umile era were. This era will be forgotten as quickly as it takes Souza or his successor to return the 'Cats to where they were during the apex of the Holt and Umile eras. And underappreciated players - like Roy, or Richmond and Rossetti in the final years of the Holt era, or like Micflikier, Goumas and probs Kelleher more recently - are the ones whose best efforts were overlooked because of the excellence that surrounded them, or bypassed by the mediocrity surrounding them. Or just because they were very good players when not as many folks were paying attention.

    The true legends of UNH Hockey history were the ones who did great things in big games ... Clark-Hislop-Cox, Ralph Cox, Mark Mowers, Jason Krog, Eric Boguniecki, Darren Haydar and more, they all fit the bill. It's why I always throw out the name of Steve Saviano when these things come up (and maybe Mike Ayers should get more play too, except for a couple of FF games he habitually gets tagged for - one quite unfairly BTW) ... maybe they weren't top tier UNH legends, but they were the guys who stood up when UNH won their only 2 HE Tourney championships. So I'll throw Saviano and Ayers into the "underappreciated" discussion as well.
    Yeah I get what you are saying the big dogs did big things in big games and as for the rest? Not so much given the rest of the story. Right players; wrong team but still deserving even if they don't get to play in the big one!

    So in 10 years we will not remember or speak the name Kelleher? Gawd I hope not...Newbie fans like myself will have to keep that flame burning I guess memorable games or not. So if the best thing we can say is "member the time we beat Providence twice in the HE playoffs" is the best we have during his tenure well so be it. Doubt that's going to come up in 10 years but hey it's all we have!!

    Still for me I can truly say it's been a pleasure to watch him and have my fingers crossed for a good second half for him (as well as for the team) and a well deserved Hobey nomination.

    I guess that's all we really will have unless something miraculous happens as you say! Like you said...it's a crying shame, really. Man I hope I get to experience all that fun of going deep in the post season like so many of you have. Pretty lucky considering the many teams in this board who never have. And yeah it's small consolation given the heartbreaks along the way.

    You tube only goes so far...🙄 That is the lot of a fan...and the price one pays (86 years for the Sox anyone?) when you follow a team you just gotta keep coming back!

    Guess I have somewhat of a soft spot for these Seniors as they were the first group I've followed for 4 years; already kind of wondering if I will put in the time next season. (Yeah right)🙄
    Last edited by HockeyRef; 12-17-2016, 01:33 PM.
    Here we go 'Cats!!

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    • #77
      Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

      Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
      And underappreciated players - like Roy, or Richmond and Rossetti in the final years of the Holt era, or like Micflikier, Goumas and probs Kelleher more recently - are the ones whose best efforts were overlooked because of the excellence that surrounded them, or bypassed by the mediocrity surrounding them. Or just because they were very good players when not as many folks were paying attention.

      The true legends of UNH Hockey history were the ones who did great things in big games ... Clark-Hislop-Cox, Ralph Cox, Mark Mowers, Jason Krog, Eric Boguniecki, Darren Haydar and more, they all fit the bill. It's why I always throw out the name of Steve Saviano when these things come up (and maybe Mike Ayers should get more play too, except for a couple of FF games he habitually gets tagged for - one quite unfairly BTW) ... maybe they weren't top tier UNH legends, but they were the guys who stood up when UNH won their only 2 HE Tourney championships. So I'll throw Saviano and Ayers into the "underappreciated" discussion as well.
      Chuck, clarification first. Frank Roy, the greatest player ever to come out of Berlin, played for UNH in Charlie Holt's glory days of the late 70's. Despite 174 career points, he never made an All American team, mostly because the teams he played on had the likes of Miller, Cox, Lumley, Gould, Crowder, etc. But he was a big time player, an adept stickhandler and passer, and a tenacious forechecker. He is my definition of un (or under) appreciated. McFlikier is in the same boat in my mind, with 150 career points but somehow overshadowed by the likes of Radja, Fornataro, and Brett Hemingway. And although you are spot on as to how valuable Saviano and Ayers were back then, I'll remind you that both received their dues as first team All Americans and deservedly so. My guess is Kelleher will be an All American this year, unless he drops completely off the table.

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      • #78
        Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

        Originally posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
        Chuck, clarification first. Frank Roy, the greatest player ever to come out of Berlin, played for UNH in Charlie Holt's glory days of the late 70's. Despite 174 career points, he never made an All American team, mostly because the teams he played on had the likes of Miller, Cox, Lumley, Gould, Crowder, etc. But he was a big time player, an adept stickhandler and passer, and a tenacious forechecker. He is my definition of un (or under) appreciated. McFlikier is in the same boat in my mind, with 150 career points but somehow overshadowed by the likes of Radja, Fornataro, and Brett Hemingway. And although you are spot on as to how valuable Saviano and Ayers were back then, I'll remind you that both received their dues as first team All Americans and deservedly so. My guess is Kelleher will be an All American this year, unless he drops completely off the table.
        Yeah, Roy was someone who fit into the "overlooked because of the excellence that surrounded them" category. Not all that unlike Saviano a generation later. Richmond and Rossetti fell into the "bypassed by the mediocrity surrounding them" category a few years later.

        You would know the answer to this one better than most ... but have qualifications for being an "All-American" changed over the years? One needs only to scan the All-American photo gallery at The Whitt to see many more recent AA's than back in the day, and some glaring omissions from the Holt era. On the surface - and not to discredit recent UNH designees - it just seems easier numbers-wise to earn AA status these days. True or false?
        Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
        Montreal Expos Forever ...

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        • #79
          Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

          Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
          IIRC Grasso hasn't exactly been lighting it up recently. I don't think Salvaggio or McNicholas have done anything to deserve getting knocked down (just yet). I mean, we're not talking MacDonald or Smith here. Kelleher hasn't missed a beat so far this season, even after both of his linemates from last season (Correale and what's his name?) moved on.
          Correale and that other guy were actually his linemates for the better part of the last two seasons, I'm happy to see him overcome the problem of having to adjust to two completely new linemates at the same time with the production he has had to this point.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by deltabravo62 View Post
            Correale and that other guy were actually his linemates for the better part of the last two seasons, I'm happy to see him overcome the problem of having to adjust to two completely new linemates at the same time with the production he has had to this point.
            Oh to still have that other guy....😳
            Here we go 'Cats!!

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            • #81
              Originally posted by deltabravo62 View Post
              Correale and that other guy were actually his linemates for the better part of the last two seasons, I'm happy to see him overcome the problem of having to adjust to two completely new linemates at the same time with the production he has had to this point.
              Having to adjust to two new linemates was a given. But, why not include a skater on his line who can get open and snipe?

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              • #82
                Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

                Originally posted by Snively65 View Post
                Having to adjust to two new linemates was a given. But, why not include a skater on his line who can get open and snipe?
                So who would you pull off the line?
                Here we go 'Cats!!

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
                  Yeah, Roy was someone who fit into the "overlooked because of the excellence that surrounded them" category. Not all that unlike Saviano a generation later. Richmond and Rossetti fell into the "bypassed by the mediocrity surrounding them" category a few years later.

                  You would know the answer to this one better than most ... but have qualifications for being an "All-American" changed over the years? One needs only to scan the All-American photo gallery at The Whitt to see many more recent AA's than back in the day, and some glaring omissions from the Holt era. On the surface - and not to discredit recent UNH designees - it just seems easier numbers-wise to earn AA status these days. True or false?
                  Memory is a bit hazy but I think back in the day that there were no second team All American selections. Also,,you have to remember that UNH was emerging back then and didn't get their first All American until 1974 when Gordie Clark and Cap Raeder were selected. Then there were Cliff Cox and Hislop in 1976, Miller, Ralph Cox and Burke in 1977, Cox and Gould in 1979. So we had our share. Of course, we got to the eighties and, except for Brickley, it was all downhill until 1992 when I think Amodeo and Jeff Levy were second team All Americans. I think the bottom line is that they now choose 12 players from the east, 12 from the west and back then it was only six per region.

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                  • #84
                    Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

                    Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
                    Oh to still have that other guy....😳
                    ... or maybe - just maybe - Kelleher was really the guy who made that line go, and when what's his name got injured and/or lost his fire in the second half of the season (y'know, when he decided he was gonna go pro and was done with UNH), that dragged the whole line down? And now that he's got the full commitment of his linemates again, maybe Kelleher's showing that he was the pick of the litter after all?

                    Reminds me of the Bekar/Krog combination in '98 (although Beks never quit, and was the best UNH player on the ice in their sad 4-0 loss in the FF semis to Michigan), and how many folks thought Krog would be lost without his running mate in '99 ... all Krog did was to win the Hobey, and lead his team to the FF Finals, where they lost in OT. Krog also went on to have the better pro career, by some margin.

                    Maybe I'm being unfair to what's his name ... but all things being equal, give me Kelleher every time.
                    Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                    Montreal Expos Forever ...

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                    • #85
                      Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

                      Originally posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
                      Memory is a bit hazy but I think back in the day that there were no second team All American selections. Also,,you have to remember that UNH was emerging back then and didn't get their first All American until 1974 when Gordie Clark and Cap Raeder were selected. Then there were Cliff Cox and Hislop in 1976, Miller, Ralph Cox and Burke in 1977, Cox and Gould in 1979. So we had our share. Of course, we got to the eighties and, except for Brickley, it was all downhill until 1992 when I think Amodeo and Jeff Levy were second team All Americans. I think the bottom line is that they now choose 12 players from the east, 12 from the west and back then it was only six per region.
                      That seems to make sense. Thanks!
                      Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                      Montreal Expos Forever ...

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
                        ... or maybe - just maybe - Kelleher was really the guy who made that line go, and when what's his name got injured and/or lost his fire in the second half of the season (y'know, when he decided he was gonna go pro and was done with UNH), that dragged the whole line down? And now that he's got the full commitment of his linemates again, maybe Kelleher's showing that he was the pick of the litter after all?

                        Reminds me of the Bekar/Krog combination in '98 (although Beks never quit, and was the best UNH player on the ice in their sad 4-0 loss in the FF semis to Michigan), and how many folks thought Krog would be lost without his running mate in '99 ... all Krog did was to win the Hobey, and lead his team to the FF Finals, where they lost in OT. Krog also went on to have the better pro career, by some margin.

                        Maybe I'm being unfair to what's his name ... but all things being equal, give me Kelleher every time.
                        I wouldn't call this unfair, so much as I'd call it garbage. This is probably your worst post ever and that's saying something in a month where you claimed Lazzarro would be UNHs primary back up for at least one full season, maybe two, and sold out everything you believe in just for a chance to whine about NEW extra-attacker strategies/analytics and insisted that Saviano is underrated because the rest of us don't consider him the all-time, top-five UNH forward that you do...

                        Good players can play together and both be good, FYI. Incidentally, that other guy is leading his AHL team in points, assists and is second in goals while playing first line center as a rookie 22 year old...

                        Also, while Bekar's departure was forecasted as detrimental to the team, NO ONE ever said Krog would struggle without him. Just as no one doubted Kelleher would struggle without AP (nor would the opposite be true)...

                        Finally, you're continued labeling of players leaving for professional opportunities as quitters is not only unfair but childish.

                        You have always been one to argue that the sky is red if you felt it would prove your point, but your recent postings have done nothing to dispel the idea that you barely follow UNH hockey...

                        Your posting has been bad and needs to be better. Or, perhaps I should consider the idea that Bobo simply carried you back in the old USCHO days and this is who you've always been. So much for childhood message board heroes...
                        Last edited by Dan; 12-17-2016, 09:54 PM.
                        Live Free or Die!!
                        Miami University '03

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                        • #87
                          Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

                          Originally posted by Dan View Post
                          I wouldn't call this unfair, so much as I'd call it garbage. This is probably your worst post ever and that's saying something in a month where you claimed Lazzarro would be UNHs primary back up for at least one full season, maybe two, and sold out everything you believe in just for a chance to whine about NEW extra-attacker strategies/analytics and insisted that Saviano is underrated because the rest of us don't consider him the all-time, top-five UNH forward that you do...

                          Good players can play together and both be good, FYI. Incidentally, that other guy is leading his AHL team in points, assists and is second in goals while playing first line center as a rookie 22 year old...

                          Also, while Bekar's departure was forecasted as detrimental to the team, NO ONE ever said Krog would struggle without him. Just as no one doubted Kelleher would struggle without AP (nor would the opposite be true)...

                          Finally, you're continued labeling of players leaving for professional opportunities as quitters is not only unfair but childish.

                          You have always been one to argue that the sky is red if you felt it would prove your point, but your recent postings have done nothing to dispel the idea that you barely follow UNH hockey...

                          Your posting has been bad and needs to be better. Or, perhaps I should consider the idea that Bobo simply carried you back in the old USCHO days and this is who you've always been. So much for childhood message board heroes...
                          Bobo was/is the greatest - we can set that one aside as an area of 100% agreement.

                          Saviano was a proven winner. I don't think I ever said he should be a Hobey or top 5 all time UNH forward.

                          I'd take Kelleher over his former linemate every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. JMHO.

                          I don't remember taking a big stand on Lazzarro being a definite second stringer? Possible, yes. Just sifting through some scenarios (and that was pre-Commesso). I mean, who would have predicted Regan would have been the primary back-up for most of last season? And if it comes to pass, will you apologize?

                          I'm happy to continue - especially on the empty net/multiple goals/regular season silliness, where I did respond but never got an answer - but it's hard to take any of this seriously when the phrase "childhood hero" gets added to the discussion. I mean, I'm flattered (I guess?), but I didn't realize we were posting for grades?

                          Anyway, I promise I'll try harder going forward. I might even show up at the next game early to catch the greatness I've apparently been missing all along with Clark's total awesomeness in the pre-game warm-ups.
                          Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                          Montreal Expos Forever ...

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                          • #88
                            Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

                            Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
                            Saviano was a proven winner. I don't think I ever said he should be a Hobey or top 5 all time UNH forward.
                            Saviano played with Collins, Aikins, Callendar, Micflickier, Martz, Winnik, Hemingway (X2), Yandle, Mounsey, Ayers, Gare, Abbott, Haydar, etc. Poturalski played with Kelleher. Saviano doesn't 'win' anything with the current roster and it doesn't diminish his ability as a player one bit. Poturalski doesn't hold back the teams of the past one iota. Teams win as a group.

                            I'd take Kelleher over his former linemate every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. JMHO
                            That's fine, but that's not what you said. You responded to Ref's post with the SOLE intent of taking a shot at Poturalski. Who you have continuously called a quitter. I'm sure you'll argue that you prefer players who stay all four years (the purity of amateur athletics, after all!), but that is transparent BS and you are fooling no one. You think Poturalski owed it to you to perform through injury/constant double teams and most importantly to stay for four seasons. And because he didn't you attack him as a person again and again. Because he didn't possess your prefered style of play, its fair game to question him as a person, right? I find this type of ignorance pathetic.

                            I don't remember taking a big stand on Lazzarro being a definite second stringer? Possible, yes. Just sifting through some scenarios (and that was pre-Commesso). I mean, who would have predicted Regan would have been the primary back-up for most of last season? And if it comes to pass, will you apologize?
                            As for your ignorance of UNH hockey and its roster make-up, I just find that amusing. Lazzarro played one year of PG prep hockey at Phillips Exeter. Jamie Regan played/started two seasons of junior hockey and it STILL took a last minute legal issue for Umile to turn over the back-up role to Regan (for HALF a season). Then he rushed a second scholarship goalie into school at the semester break (i.e. ASAP). UNH will recruit another goalie between Robinson and Comesso. But, if I'm wrong Ill certainly apologize if that's what you need. I won't cheat you out of your poster points/grade...

                            I'm happy to continue - especially on the empty net/multiple goals/regular season silliness, where I did respond but never got an answer
                            It wasn't worth responding, because you don't care about facts/analysis/discussion - only spinning whatever reality you wish to see. Again, you never argued once that you didn't think pulling the goalie was the right call for UNH or any other team. You simply spotted an opening to push your desired reality. The first words out of your mouth were blaming it on Patrick Roy, analytics and lazy coaches (never mind the FACT that Roy hates analytics). Not one word escaped your finger tips to actually discuss the situation. I find that line of posting extremely dull. If you ever want to discuss something with an open mind, a reasonable objectivity and based on actual reality, I'd be glad to. But that's never been your M.O.


                            but it's hard to take any of this seriously when the phrase "childhood hero" gets added to the discussion. I mean, I'm flattered (I guess?), but I didn't realize we were posting for grades?

                            Anyway, I promise I'll try harder going forward. I might even show up at the next game early to catch the greatness I've apparently been missing all along with Clark's total awesomeness in the pre-game warm-ups.
                            I know you don't comprehend anything without emoji's, but don't worry, this was not serious in the least. Only you - and you're ego - would even imagine this throw-away line had any seriousness to it. I never considered you a hero - although I certainly view you as a 'message board hero'. No, no one posts for grades here - though you mention this enough I have to wonder if you're keeping score somehow. But, thankfully, I don't know anyone else who posts here primarily to hear themselves speak. I've never thought much of your posting other than you clearly think you are a lot funnier and more clever than the rest of us do.

                            As for your Clark comment - I wont hold my breath for you to (actually) attend a game, let alone arrive for warm-ups. If you actually did, I bet you'd notice I was right on the money with my comment that all you had to do was watch warm-ups to notice how little net Tirone covers and how often he is beat clean, one on one, by even his less skilled teammates (much more than most goalies - but that would require following the entire sport when you can barely keep up with one team). It was part of an extensive argument on his overall game - but as usual you ignored the bulk of my post and focused on the one thing you thought you could use.

                            I'm sure I have ruffled feathers here by being critical of players/coaches performance, but unlike yourself, I have never and will never root against any UNH player/alum. Including Tirone, I applaud and respect his playing much better of late (and the work, focus it must have taken) and hope it continues. Would Clark have performed if he was ever given the same leash or proven confidence in his abilities? We'll probably never know...

                            Oh well, good talk, Chuck. You may now return to your regular schedule of finding glee in the perceived professional shortcomings of the alumni who leave early and personal attacks on Poturalski and the AD's wife...
                            Last edited by Dan; 12-18-2016, 01:13 AM.
                            Live Free or Die!!
                            Miami University '03

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Snively65 View Post
                              Having to adjust to two new linemates was a given. But, why not include a skater on his line who can get open and snipe?
                              I hear you Snively - but just as there were better options last season (in my opinion) than Correale as long as the line is producing Umile won't consider making a change. And one could easily argue that he's right not to. I might argue that.

                              I do however think this team needs more scoring to compete with the better teams they'll see in the second half - and just like last year - more scoring depth. Right now the second line just isn't doing the job. If I was going to make a change to the first line - I'd drop McNicholas down in hopes his playmaking ability would jumpstart Vela. Grasso has played center, but the likely candidate to get McNicholas' spot would be Blackburn.

                              I think the much more likely scenario, however, is the first line stays intact. So, I'd like to see them jumble the remaining groups. I think a second line of Grasso, Vela and Blackburn should be experimented with. If Vela can get going and Grasso/Blackburn continue to adjust and perform that could be a good group.

                              I'd love to see a third line of Eiserman, Nazarian and Hill. I think this would be a fast group that plays with an edge, can be physical and provide some occasional pop.

                              Mille/BVR/Cefalu/Sacco/Fregona can mix and match on the fourth line...
                              Last edited by Dan; 12-18-2016, 12:52 AM.
                              Live Free or Die!!
                              Miami University '03

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Dan View Post
                                I hear you Snively - but just as there were better options last season (in my opinion) than Correale as long as the line is producing Umile won't consider making a change. And one could easily argue that he's right not to. I might argue that.

                                I do however think this team needs more scoring to compete with the better teams they'll see in the second half - and just like last year - more scoring depth. Right now the second line just isn't doing the job. If I was going to make a change to the first line - I'd drop McNicholas down in hopes his playmaking ability would jumpstart Vela. Grasso has played center, but the likely candidate to get McNicholas' spot would be Blackburn.

                                I think the much more likely scenario, however, is the first line stays intact. So, I'd like to see them jumble the remaining groups. I think a second line of Grasso, Vela and Blackburn should be experimented with. If Vela can get going and Grasso/Blackburn continue to adjust and perform that could be a good group.

                                I'd love to see a third line of Eiserman, Nazarian and Hill. I think this would be a fast group that plays with an edge, can be physical and provide some occasional pop.

                                Mille/BVR/Cefalu/Sacco/Fregona can mix and match on the fourth line...
                                Sure, I would be fine with any of these line changes as experiments, and maybe DU has tried some of these in practice? As HR noted, the Brown game would be a good time to try out some of these changes, or even the OOC game with Maine in Manchvegas to see if some of these changes might be useful against UML. I have observed that Miller, Hill, and Grasso have all shown that they can accelerate on the ice this season, but Grasso is the one who can finish by putting the puck in the net. I agree that more scoring is needed, whether that be TyK with linemates who can get open, or distributed across reconstituted lines. I am still not able to comprehend Eiserman falling to the fourth line. I have been pleasantly surprised by our imorovement on the blue line, and think that Cleland is worthy of Hobey consideration along with TyK. Hoping that Tirone can continue to stay on his feet as he has done better recently.

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