UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

[Dan]

You pull the goalie because if you think you have even the slightest chance to win - or a better chance to win - by doing so, you owe it to your team. This is college and you play to win the game. At times you might not pull your goalie down three - thinking that getting three before the other team gets one is unlikely. On Saturday, Umile must have felt that a quick goal might give them a chance.

Assuming he felt they had a chance why wouldn't he try? What would we say if the team decided "why bother" and quit for the last two minutes?

Chuck has always been a moral victory guy, hanging his hat on puck possession, goal differential, and shots on goal, but I give credit to Umile for understanding that a 3 or 4 goal loss both result in the same outcome.

It's also nice to send a message to your team sometimes, that even in tough situations you believe in them. "It's long odds, why bother", doesn't quite send the same message...

---

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9nyuGoxYzNQ

Down four with 12 to go - they probably should have just left the ice and headed back to Ohio. Especially since they ended up losing. Someone definitely should have told Belpedio "why bother" before he blew out his shoulder...

I know what I like best about college sports is watching a close game come down to the "why bother" determination. As a Miami alum I certainly took no pride in their fight to the finish. It definitely disrespected the game...

[Snively65]

You pull the goalie because if you think you have even the slightest chance to win - or a better chance to win - by doing so, you owe it to your team. This is college and you play to win the game. At times you might not pull your goalie down three - thinking that getting three before the other team gets one is unlikely. On Saturday, Umile must have felt that a quick goal might give them a chance.

Assuming he felt they had a chance why wouldn't he try? What would we say if the team decided "why bother" and quit for the last two minutes?

Chuck has always been a moral victory guy, hanging his hat on puck possession, goal differential, and shots on goal, but I give credit to Umile for understanding that a 3 or 4 goal loss both result in the same outcome.

It's also nice to send a message to your team sometimes, that even in tough situations you believe in them. "It's long odds, why bother", doesn't quite send the same message...

---

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9nyuGoxYzNQ

Down four with 12 to go - they probably should have just left the ice and headed back to Ohio. Especially since they ended up losing. Someone definitely should have told Belpedio "why bother" before he blew out his shoulder...

I know what I like best about college sports is watching a close game come down to the "why bother" determination. As a Miami alum I certainly took no pride in their fight to the finish. It definitely disrespected the game...

Sure, I get the extra attacker advantage. But, in this game we were clearly playing better 5-5 than on our two power plays. I might add that it is the dump and chase into the corners on the PP and EA situation that baffles me.

[Snively65]

This is just such a cool story, Snively65. Love these stories. So how the heck, with such proximity to the school and the program, did you end up "south of the border" for school?!?! 😄

As a townie, I did go to UNH, and lived at home, because I could not afford to pay to live on campus, or pay tuition and room & board at Dartmouth or Cornell, which is why chickod's demeaning post in our last thread touched a raw nerve. But, it all worked out, except for the university of no hardware chants.

[Dan]

Sure, I get the extra attacker advantage. But, in this game we were clearly playing better 5-5 than on our two power plays. I might add that it is the dump and chase into the corners on the PP and EA situation that baffles me.

I take more of an issue with the idea that coaches shouldn't bother pulling their goalies unless down only one and with well under a minute to play - otherwise why bother. The coach should do whatever he thinks gives the team the best - or any - chance to win. It really is that simple. And a loss is a loss. Period.

I take no issue with your honest question - and if you felt that UNH had a better chance to win playing even-strength with a goalie in the net than its fair to raise the question.

I suppose Unile would argue that the odds were long either way and he felt the team had the best chance going a man-up to get a quick goal and spark a rally. He probably also felt he had to do so early since the deficit was three. Finally, I think Umile probably put stock in how well the PP has produced this year and felt that the games small PP sample was an aberration.

I was at the DU game - so you'd have to tell me if you thought Dartmouth was playing the PK in a manner that would consistently stifle the UNH PP or if the units just weren't clicking to that point. UNH does boast a top-ten PP and three of the top seven PP goal scorers in the country, so I can't fault him for his thought process.

As far as dumping the puck on the PP - I don't love it either. Though, there is something to be said for expecting your team to win the board battle with the extra man. The best PPs mix up their approaches and take advantage of an ability to both carry and dump the puck on the PP.

UNH has historically had the ability to carry pucks into the zone across all PP units. With the top unit stacked this season, they are certainly capable. I'm not sure about the second group. I'd be interested in paying closer attention to the dump/carry ratio of each group. The second group is probably better off banging the boards and slot for ugly goals than trying to match up to the skilled strategies of the first unit.

At Denver, for example, their top unit features features four forwards, including all of their top skill players - Borgstrom, Gambrell, Terry, Lukosevices/Marcinew and Butcher at the point. They play a dynamic 1-3-1, carry the puck to enter the zone often and play an uptempo, high-low PP. they're terrific. And yet, Montgomery tries to play the same way with the second group and its a disaster...

When you watched UNH this weekend, did you see the two units playing in a different fashion or was the top unit dumping primarily also? I would agree that it certainly doesn't seem like top-strategy when you're sending Kelleher, Grasso and McNicholas to chase the loose puck...

[wildcatdc]

As a townie, I did go to UNH, and lived at home, because I could not afford to pay to live on campus, or pay tuition and room & board at Dartmouth or Cornell, which is why chickod's demeaning post in our last thread touched a raw nerve. But, it all worked out, except for the university of no hardware chants.

Ahhhhhh, that's right. The Bentley hat always confuses me.

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

I take more of an issue with the idea that coaches shouldn't bother pulling their goalies unless down only one and with well under a minute to play - otherwise why bother. The coach should do whatever he thinks gives the team the best - or any - chance to win. It really is that simple. And a loss is a loss. Period.

I take no issue with your honest question - and if you felt that UNH had a better chance to win playing even-strength with a goalie in the net than its fair to raise the question.

I suppose Unile would argue that the odds were long either way and he felt the team had the best chance going a man-up to get a quick goal and spark a rally. He probably also felt he had to do so early since the deficit was three. Finally, I think Umile probably put stock in how well the PP has produced this year and felt that the games small PP sample was an aberration.

I was at the DU game - so you'd have to tell me if you thought Dartmouth was playing the PK in a manner that would consistently stifle the UNH PP or if the units just weren't clicking to that point. UNH does boast a top-ten PP and three of the top seven PP goal scorers in the country, so I can't fault him for his thought process.

As far as dumping the puck on the PP - I don't love it either. Though, there is something to be said for expecting your team to win the board battle with the extra man. The best PPs mix up their approaches and take advantage of an ability to both carry and dump the puck on the PP.

UNH has historically had the ability to carry pucks into the zone across all PP units. With the top unit stacked this season, they are certainly capable. I'm not sure about the second group. I'd be interested in paying closer attention to the dump/carry ratio of each group. The second group is probably better off banging the boards and slot for ugly goals than trying to match up to the skilled strategies of the first unit.

At Denver, for example, their top unit features features four forwards, including all of their top skill players - Borgstrom, Gambrell, Terry, Lukosevices/Marcinew and Butcher at the point. They play a dynamic 1-3-1, carry the puck to enter the zone often and play an uptempo, high-low PP. they're terrific. And yet, Montgomery tries to play the same way with the second group and its a disaster...

When you watched UNH this weekend, did you see the two units playing in a different fashion or was the top unit dumping primarily also? I would agree that it certainly doesn't seem like top-strategy when you're sending Kelleher, Grasso and McNicholas to chase the loose puck...

Good insights, Dan. I think that our two PP units do play differently, with TyK commonly ending up on the left side of the ice wheeling and dealing with the puck, glued to his stick, usually drawing at least two opposing players, which one would think should leave two of his line mates open, no? And, the guy who was usually able to get open for him early in the season was Grasso, hence Grasso's 6 PPGs. But, nothing was clicking on Saturday night in Hanover, no one was getting open, albeit there were only those two PP opportunities. UNH rang the post twice 5 on 5. Of course, Dartmouth rang Ty Rone's friend the post twice also. Because TyK seems perfectly comfortable playing from the left side, which is where I have seen him play a lot this season on the PP, I would like to see Grasso on right side of the first line, just as an experiment, if nothing else. Might have made the difference in the Cornell and Dartmouth games.

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

... I have no idea the thought process behind Saturday's decision. However it would seem to me that it would be a good time to work on such a thing. You can just lay down on your belly and play out the string or you can make the best of a bad situation. Who knows, perhaps they will see something during film review, work on it, and somewhere down the road, when they really need an EAG, they will get one. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Good point. Pretty much the only (realistic) reason I can see to do something like that.

Then again ... one could argue that with so much time spent with teams playing up (OR down) a man this season, the time could be used almost as productively experimenting with different line combinations at 5 v. 5 full strength, *maybe* throwing an extra forward onto the backline, etc. Granted, you hate to see it just used as the equivalent of "garbage time" in hoops with a flood of 3rd and 4th liners soaking up extra minutes in low impact situations ... but there is something to be said for sparing your front line players from needless (or fluke) injuries when a RS game has basically been settled.

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

You pull the goalie because if you think you have even the slightest chance to win - or a better chance to win - by doing so, you owe it to your team. This is college and you play to win the game. At times you might not pull your goalie down three - thinking that getting three before the other team gets one is unlikely. On Saturday, Umile must have felt that a quick goal might give them a chance.

Assuming he felt they had a chance why wouldn't he try? What would we say if the team decided "why bother" and quit for the last two minutes?

Chuck has always been a moral victory guy, hanging his hat on puck possession, goal differential, and shots on goal but I give credit to Umile for understanding that a 3 or 4 goal loss both result in the same outcome.

It's also nice to send a message to your team sometimes, that even in tough situations you believe in them. "It's long odds, why bother", doesn't quite send the same message...

I put the in there for you 'cuz I know you missed it. Sarcasm is tough to discern on the Internet sometimes.

So ... following that logic, let's say your team is down 2 goals in a regular season game with 3 minutes left, and you decide to pull your goalie. That's legit, no question. 30 seconds later, the opposing team scores an ENG, and now you're down 3 goals with 2.5 minutes left to play. 99% of the coaches will immediately return the goalie to their crease and leave them in there for the duration. 1% of the time, you manage to score another goal, and you're back down by only 2 goals with 1-2 minutes left, so you pull the goalie again.

Isn't it still "giving up/why bother?" when you put your goalie back in after you've surrendered that first ENG?

Doesn't that send the message, "Hey, I tried, you failed, it didn't work, let's warm up the bus now, fellas"? Or "I really believed in you guys until that ENG, now I don't any more?"

If we're going to venture off into the world of "messages", then shouldn't the messages be consistent???

The bigger the gap I see when coaches do stuff like this in the RS, the more it feels like posturing with token moves they're just copycatting from the other guys in their profession. "Can't look bad now, can I?"

At least the NHL coaches know half the teams won't make the playoffs, so the RS does have more value to them. In D-1 hockey, not only does basically everyone qualify for at least the MBPBEGAM league tourney "playoffs" ... winning the tourney gets you an invitation to the D-1 tourney. RS basically matters only for the "bubble" teams for the at-large D-1 bids. And the late season RS games are weighted more than anything being played right now. Just sayin' ...

[Red Hockey]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

As a townie, I did go to UNH, and lived at home, because I could not afford to pay to live on campus, or pay tuition and room & board at Dartmouth or Cornell, which is why chickod's demeaning post in our last thread touched a raw nerve. But, it all worked out, except for the university of no hardware chants.

The funny thing about this is that with the Ivy League's generous financial aid policies nowadays, it may be a different story for someone that is in the situation you experienced. Then again, I can only think of two people from New Hampshire when I was a student, one went to Exeter Academy and the other was a women's hockey player.

[Whalers]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

RE: Pulling the goalie when down multiple goals late in a game, I get the concept of trying to spark a comeback. Makes sense and sends a lot of messages. But then someone posits the argument that Patrick Roy started the concept and brought it in to vogue while coaching. This would mean that the concept is a new wrinkle to the game AND we know that DU doesn't try anything new, save for the intro of the turtle neck.

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

which is why chickod's demeaning post in our last thread touched a raw nerve.

As I explained previously, it wasn't meant to be "demeaning." We didn't have a lot of money, either. I lived at home for four years after graduating because I couldn't afford to live on my own. My point was that "in general" I would assume that the "average" Cornell grad is in a financially better position than the "average" UNH grad. Most of these guys work in NYC or in the financial industry, or in science and engineering for big corporations with endless resources.

I don't know what else I need to say to convince you. I'm sorry if it came off that way...it was NOT meant to.

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

TvR gets the 'Hawks on the board against the Rangers!!!

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

TvR gets the 'Hawks on the board against the Rangers!!!

Four UNH alums score a goal in less than 10 days?

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

WIS Productions brings you the Christmas Break '16 edition of "Umile's Last Stand - The _____ for 600".

"Umile's Last Stand - The Quest for 600"

Coach Umile's current career wins total: 579
Wins Remaining to the next round number: 21
*Games Remaining (Next 2 Seasons - Min.): 55
Win Pct. Required to Hit Target: 38%
WIS Estimated Likelihood of Success: 65%
2016/2017 Cupcake Conversion Ratio (CCR): 7/13 (53.8%)

* - minimum games remaining assumes 34 regular season games, and at least 2 games in the MBPBEGAM "playoffs"

The cross-state trip to the Upper Valley this past weekend didn't quite work out as we'd hoped, as the "Champions of December" couldn't consolidate an impressive home-and-home sweep over archrivals UMaine with a road win against their former "Riverstone" rivals, hacking up a hairball in dropping a decisive 5-1 result to a very beatable Ivy opponent. If nothing else, it just shows that this UNH team is still a work in progress, and can't be counted on to win the games they should be winning. That this latest loss *might* barely scrape into the top (bottom?) 5 performances so far this up-and-down season (see Bentley, Colorado College, Sacred Heart and ASFU) only reinforces the point. Even Coach Umile admitted in the media this past weekend that additional wins were to have been expected. An 8-7-2 record is nothing to be ashamed of ... but that only tells half the story, and with the cupcake section of the schedule soon to be in the rear view mirror, the "other" half now looms increasingly large and imminent.

Let's not forget ... this time last season, UNH was hovering around the .500 mark, and seemed to be trending up, with some excitement about Hobey candidates to add to the mix. Then came the break, and things slipped badly upon their return and the arrival of the iron of Hockey East in regular doses, while both Hobey candidates saw their production pretty much cut in half. One of those Hobey candidates remains, and seems determined to write a different ending to this year's story. WIS wants to go on the record with its admiration of this undersized yet determined and highly talented 4 year player, and will predict that not only will he get a Hobey nomination, he'll also get to the Frozen Four as part of the "Hobey Hat Trick" set of finalists. Too bad he won't be there with his teammates, though.

The Big Picture - WIS experts' projection that Coach Umile's Wildcats would amass at least 10 wins in the opening 18 games of the season is now officially dead, and will not be attained. Two more non-conference meetings after the break against UMaine at Manchester, and then against Brown at Providence, pretty much shape up as "must wins" - especially with Coach Bazin's Riverhawks coming to visit us in between. WIS has looked at the rest of the UNH in-conference schedule, and has set the line at 3.5 additional HE wins, and sets a line of 1.5 wins in the MBPGEGAM "playoffs". Seeing that Coach Umile needs to find a way to the 14-15 win range this season to keep things on track with The Quest ending on a happy note in Winter 2018, you can see how important taking W's out of the final two OOC games becomes. The Dartmouth loss takes a couple of points off the likelihood Coach successfully reaches the next round number.

Prediction:

Friday (Dec. 30th): @ UNH 4 UMaine 4

NEXT (LAST?) CUPCAKE ON THE SHELF: 1/7/17 @ Brown

IS BS35+4 PAYING ATTENTION YET?

Yes and no. With football season over, and his brand-new stadium deemed a smashing success by pretty much everyone (putting aside some of the scoreboard funding related drama), and with the Men's Hoops team in nosebleed territory at 7-3 our boy has earned the right to rest on his laurels over the holiday season. And no one does laurel-resting better than BS35+4. "Should Men's Hockey have won a few more games? Sure, no doubt ... but, why worry? Dick has a winning record, and my spies tell me that he hasn't been taking too much heat over at USCHO in recent weeks. Apparently, even the clown who writes about The Quest or whatever seems to think my master plan to get my paisan to the next round number is gonna work more often than not. And Dick's nephew just landed a pair of blue chip recruits!! God, I'm a genius. Hon ... can you get me some more eggnog? (buurrrrpppp) Now ... let's see, how do we get Daniel Webster and Wheelock onto the Men's Hockey schedule next season? Geez, Herrion's cupcakes are even tastier than Umile's ... and Bill isn't even a paisan!"

Anyway ... Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and Happy Holidays to all. And "Let's Make UNH Great Again!!!"

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

WIS Productions brings you the Christmas Break '16 edition of "Umile's Last Stand - The _____ for 600".

"Umile's Last Stand - The Quest for 600"

Coach Umile's current career wins total: 579
Wins Remaining to the next round number: 21
*Games Remaining (Next 2 Seasons - Min.): 55
Win Pct. Required to Hit Target: 38%
WIS Estimated Likelihood of Success: 65%
2016/2017 Cupcake Conversion Ratio (CCR): 7/13 (53.8%)

* - minimum games remaining assumes 34 regular season games, and at least 2 games in the MBPBEGAM "playoffs"

The cross-state trip to the Upper Valley this past weekend didn't quite work out as we'd hoped, as the "Champions of December" couldn't consolidate an impressive home-and-home sweep over archrivals UMaine with a road win against their former "Riverstone" rivals, hacking up a hairball in dropping a decisive 5-1 result to a very beatable Ivy opponent. If nothing else, it just shows that this UNH team is still a work in progress, and can't be counted on to win the games they should be winning. That this latest loss *might* barely scrape into the top (bottom?) 5 performances so far this up-and-down season (see Bentley, Colorado College, Sacred Heart and ASFU) only reinforces the point. Even Coach Umile admitted in the media this past weekend that additional wins were to have been expected. An 8-7-2 record is nothing to be ashamed of ... but that only tells half the story, and with the cupcake section of the schedule soon to be in the rear view mirror, the "other" half now looms increasingly large and imminent.

Let's not forget ... this time last season, UNH was hovering around the .500 mark, and seemed to be trending up, with some excitement about Hobey candidates to add to the mix. Then came the break, and things slipped badly upon their return and the arrival of the iron of Hockey East in regular doses, while both Hobey candidates saw their production pretty much cut in half. One of those Hobey candidates remains, and seems determined to write a different ending to this year's story. WIS wants to go on the record with its admiration of this undersized yet determined and highly talented 4 year player, and will predict that not only will he get a Hobey nomination, he'll also get to the Frozen Four as part of the "Hobey Hat Trick" set of finalists. Too bad he won't be there with his teammates, though.

The Big Picture - WIS experts' projection that Coach Umile's Wildcats would amass at least 10 wins in the opening 18 games of the season is now officially dead, and will not be attained. Two more non-conference meetings after the break against UMaine at Manchester, and then against Brown at Providence, pretty much shape up as "must wins" - especially with Coach Bazin's Riverhawks coming to visit us in between. WIS has looked at the rest of the UNH in-conference schedule, and has set the line at 3.5 additional HE wins, and sets a line of 1.5 wins in the MBPGEGAM "playoffs". Seeing that Coach Umile needs to find a way to the 14-15 win range this season to keep things on track with The Quest ending on a happy note in Winter 2018, you can see how important taking W's out of the final two OOC games becomes. The Dartmouth loss takes a couple of points off the likelihood Coach successfully reaches the next round number.

Prediction:

Friday (Dec. 30th): @ UNH 4 UMaine 4

NEXT (LAST?) CUPCAKE ON THE SHELF: 1/7/17 @ Brown

IS BS35+4 PAYING ATTENTION YET?

Yes and no. With football season over, and his brand-new stadium deemed a smashing success by pretty much everyone (putting aside some of the scoreboard funding related drama), and with the Men's Hoops team in nosebleed territory at 7-3 our boy has earned the right to rest on his laurels over the holiday season. And no one does laurel-resting better than BS35+4. "Should Men's Hockey have won a few more games? Sure, no doubt ... but, why worry? Dick has a winning record, and my spies tell me that he hasn't been taking too much heat over at USCHO in recent weeks. Apparently, even the clown who writes about The Quest or whatever seems to think my master plan to get my paisan to the next round number is gonna work more often than not. And Dick's nephew just landed a pair of blue chip recruits!! God, I'm a genius. Hon ... can you get me some more eggnog? (buurrrrpppp) Now ... let's see, how do we get Daniel Webster and Wheelock onto the Men's Hockey schedule next season? Geez, Herrion's cupcakes are even tastier than Umile's ... and Bill isn't even a paisan!"

Anyway ... Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and Happy Holidays to all. And "Let's Make UNH Great Again!!!"

Hey Chuck

Since you won't have to be doing much figuring on "The Quest" over the next couple of weeks, what is your best guess as to which team (basketball or hockey) gets to 10 wins first? Seems like a pretty close call to me, although I think this stretch of the b-ball schedule might be even more saccharine laced than the hockey version.

No worries if you aren't interested in setting that line. I can always call on our more expert friends over at Eagle Action to do it....