UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

But let me just say this ... if the NHL, other pro leagues, NCAA, etc. aren't going to give ground on cutting WAY back on the size/bulk of the goalies' protective padding (and what they've done to date has been very limited), then the only remaining solution to the "let's get the biggest guys to fill as much of the goal as possible" problem is to add a foot to the height of the goal cages.

Very interesting and provocative proposal. Not unlike raising the basketball hoop to 12 feet in the NBA. I can vividly remember sitting behind the net about 12 rows up at the 2004 Frozen Four final at the Garden (that 1-0 Denver win over Maine after Maine's first goal was disallowed because a player's skate was a tenth of an inch into the crease - but I digress). Sitting next to me was a former prominent "old time" Division I goalie whose name will go unmentioned. Apparently he hadn't been to many games recently, because when he saw the teams come out for warmups he went on this rant about "When WE played, the equipment was all leather and heavy. It would get soaked with perspiration and weigh five times as much. Now THESE guys have this synthetic equipment that weighs nothing and covers the entire net." It was funny the way he told it (the typical "Back in the day...." story), but he had a good point.

The counter argument to that I suppose would be the fact that the synthetic sticks today are like rocket launchers. They weigh half as much as the old wood sticks and with the amount they flex there is ridiculous force applied to the shots, not to mention crazy trajectories. And you could make the same argument in golf, where players who could barely hit a drive 200 yards are now launching the ball out there 270 with this equipment.

So what's the solution? Some would say the "enhanced" goalie equipment (sorry, "GK" equipment ) is necessary to counterbalance the stick technology. One thing is for certain...we are never going backwards. We're not going back to steel shafts and persimmon heads, and we're not going back to wood sticks and leather goalie pads. I think your suggestion of widening the goals is one that probably should be given consideration.

EDIT: Lemonade...you beat me to it! ha ha

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

First ... love the "gk/GK" references, HR. I think you see that used more often in the other sports we follow.

Just going on past history, I don't see any amazing competition breaking out next season for goalie playing time. As unusual as it will be to see a kid like Clark spend his career gradually receding from first string to second string, and then to 3rd string for what projects to be his junior season - assuming he even returns? - it would be even more unusual to see a kid like Tirone (who's basically started regularly since his arrival, and now for 2 1/2 seasons overall in his UNH career) somehow get played out of anything more that spot starts by Robinson in the latter's Frosh season. Regardless of your thoughts on Tirone - and I know many of you don't hold him in the same regard as I do - it's pretty clear the only guy whose opinion counts (Umile) holds him in high esteem. I would be shocked to see Coach break long-established form and go in a different direction in what will almost certainly be his last season at UNH - Quest or no Quest.

----------

I've tried to avoid getting too opinionated on the whole goalie issue lately, as that seems to have sparked a lot of the more *passionate* disagreements between some of us on here this season. But let me just say this ... if the NHL, other pro leagues, NCAA, etc. aren't going to give ground on cutting WAY back on the size/bulk of the goalies' protective padding (and what they've done to date has been very limited), then the only remaining solution to the "let's get the biggest guys to fill as much of the goal as possible" problem is to add a foot to the height of the goal cages. At some point,, widening them should probably be considered too. But when you see these 6' 3"+ kids spending most of their time on their knees trying to simply fill four feet of vertical space with bulk, and still fitting comfortably under the crossbar ... there's something wrong, and the powers that be who govern the sport need to do something to get those kids up on their skates again.

Oh - and let's cut the size of the catching gloves down to something that reasonably approximates the size of the catching gloves from the past generation. There's never been a rash of goalie injuries in the past to justify the silliness that's led to the extension of all the extra crap that is used further down the goalie's catching wrist/arm. It's no doubt within the framework of the rules as they now stand, but if it's under the guise of "protection" then that's bogus.

I want to see the athleticism of goalies rewarded - guys like Hasek and Quick, for example. As it stands, there is an alarming trend that favors bulk over athleticism in the position. We've seen this in the past in other sports and other settings/positions ... I remember when Ken Dryden first made it to the NHL, and how large he was compared to the typical NHL goalie of the time. But if you look at the padding (and glove) he used, it's remarkable how much less bulk even he had in the goal compared to his same-size, modern-day successors.

Raise the crossbar, take away the extra trimming to purported goalie "protection", and let's see what happens.

JMHO. Now please feel free to have a go at it.

Interesting stuff....I absolutely think size is now the #1 factor when looking for goalies and its absurd. Nevermind if the kid is athletic or can stop pucks - he has to be 6'2+ nowadays or wont even get a look. I think like all positions it should be an open competition and the best player play no matter if he is a freshman or senior...returner or not...its about competition and putting the best team out on the ice. If Robinson gives them a .00000001% better chance of winning he should get the start. Nothing should be given.

Regarding the goalie pad/protection - one thing you did not mention is the advancement of technology in the player sticks. Shots are now coming in harder and more accurate than ever. I agree some of padding maybe a bit overboard but so is the technology and flex of the composite sticks nowadays.

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

I think next year with Mike Robinson coming in there will be definite competition for gk. Of course, Mike is a 'big guy' and plays a more conventional style than DT does as mentioned in your post. Not to mention D1 hockey will require a break in period and who knows if Mike gets the chance to get playing time? Soooo many variables and there's AC to consider as well. Not to impugn DT's size, style...but can't help but notice that most teams like Harvard, BU, BC etc. seem to have 'that kind' of GK; big, squares to the shot style of play.

First ... love the "gk/GK" references, HR. I think you see that used more often in the other sports we follow.

Just going on past history, I don't see any amazing competition breaking out next season for goalie playing time. As unusual as it will be to see a kid like Clark spend his career gradually receding from first string to second string, and then to 3rd string for what projects to be his junior season - assuming he even returns? - it would be even more unusual to see a kid like Tirone (who's basically started regularly since his arrival, and now for 2 1/2 seasons overall in his UNH career) somehow get played out of anything more that spot starts by Robinson in the latter's Frosh season. Regardless of your thoughts on Tirone - and I know many of you don't hold him in the same regard as I do - it's pretty clear the only guy whose opinion counts (Umile) holds him in high esteem. I would be shocked to see Coach break long-established form and go in a different direction in what will almost certainly be his last season at UNH - Quest or no Quest.

----------

I've tried to avoid getting too opinionated on the whole goalie issue lately, as that seems to have sparked a lot of the more *passionate* disagreements between some of us on here this season. But let me just say this ... if the NHL, other pro leagues, NCAA, etc. aren't going to give ground on cutting WAY back on the size/bulk of the goalies' protective padding (and what they've done to date has been very limited), then the only remaining solution to the "let's get the biggest guys to fill as much of the goal as possible" problem is to add a foot to the height of the goal cages. At some point,, widening them should probably be considered too. But when you see these 6' 3"+ kids spending most of their time on their knees trying to simply fill four feet of vertical space with bulk, and still fitting comfortably under the crossbar ... there's something wrong, and the powers that be who govern the sport need to do something to get those kids up on their skates again.

Oh - and let's cut the size of the catching gloves down to something that reasonably approximates the size of the catching gloves from the past generation. There's never been a rash of goalie injuries in the past to justify the silliness that's led to the extension of all the extra crap that is used further down the goalie's catching wrist/arm. It's no doubt within the framework of the rules as they now stand, but if it's under the guise of "protection" then that's bogus.

I want to see the athleticism of goalies rewarded - guys like Hasek and Quick, for example. As it stands, there is an alarming trend that favors bulk over athleticism in the position. We've seen this in the past in other sports and other settings/positions ... I remember when Ken Dryden first made it to the NHL, and how large he was compared to the typical NHL goalie of the time. But if you look at the padding (and glove) he used, it's remarkable how much less bulk even he had in the goal compared to his same-size, modern-day successors.

Raise the crossbar, take away the extra trimming to purported goalie "protection", and let's see what happens.

JMHO. Now please feel free to have a go at it.

[deltabravo62]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

Perhaps as a team, maybe because of their youth. Stating the obvious, their individual talent is off the charts. If they get it together as a team before half the players leave for the pros... look out!

Maybe I should have clarified that, the chatter is that their offensive schemes are similar. Yes, the talent level on that team is "Yuge", look out if they start to bring things together.

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

... From the sounds on the BU thread, their offense this season is a lot like ours. Dump and chase, 2-3 forwards behind the net, hoping for an open point to shoot directly into the goalies chest plate...

Perhaps as a team, maybe because of their youth. Stating the obvious, their individual talent is off the charts. If they get it together as a team before half the players leave for the pros... look out!

[HockeyRef]

Don't look now, but Merrimack is unbeaten in their last 6 and now tied with UNH for 7th place (Wildcats hold the tiebreaker).

Ok I won't look...Merrimack, Providence making their run. UNH being pointless in too many HE games in second half is feeling the pressure. Maybe it sparks much needed urgency.

[RENCEB]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

Doubt they wanna lose to UNH...I mean, the horror of it following the losses to Merrimack.

Don't look now, but Merrimack is unbeaten in their last 6 and now tied with UNH for 7th place (Wildcats hold the tiebreaker).

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

I think the issue with Tirone is size. He is probably 5'10 and playing the typical butterfly style with that size isnt a recipe for success therefore he has to play unconventional. If he was 6'2+ then I bet he would be a typical butterfly goalie like Woll, Oettinger, Robinson, etc.

Very good point...

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

I think next year with Mike Robinson coming in there will be definite competition for gk. Of course, Mike is a 'big guy' and plays a more conventional style than DT does as mentioned in your post. Not to mention D1 hockey will require a break in period and who knows if Mike gets the chance to get playing time? Soooo many variables and there's AC to consider as well. Not to impugn DT's size, style...but can't help but notice that most teams like Harvard, BU, BC etc. seem to have 'that kind' of GK; big, squares to the shot style of play. And of course, keeping the shots that actually get to the gk matter as well which requires a strong Dzone which we are still in the course of developing since Pesce et al left. That in itself is an entire thread to its own!

I think the issue with Tirone is size. He is probably 5'10 and playing the typical butterfly style with that size isnt a recipe for success therefore he has to play unconventional. If he was 6'2+ then I bet he would be a typical butterfly goalie like Woll, Oettinger, Robinson, etc.

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

If BU plays P.O'ed and focused it will be the first time since December...

Doubt they wanna lose to UNH...I mean, the horror of it following the losses to Merrimack.

[deltabravo62]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

db62, i am so with you on this. How many games have we started down 2 after 5 shots or less. It is never good to be down on your goalie but man can he let some stop-ables in? Yes I have seen some incredible saves all year but I also feel that he often just can't coordinate his movements with the flight of the puck. He also just rockets himself out of position, sliding way outside of the crease and just can't get back in time to make a save. He spends a lot of time on his back as you noted. While very athletic and quick, many of his great looking saves are just his reaction to being way out of position, and having to lung back across the crease. He can stone them when they are close in and he is squared up.

I didn't say anything about the Lowell game because the majority of the goals against were odd man rushes and doorstep tip ins, that is on the defense. In the Saturday game, goals against were mostly straight in shots that he should have had covered. In the late season run we just can not seem to have him and the defense having a good night together.

From the sounds on the BU thread, their offense this season is a lot like ours. Dump and chase, 2-3 forwards behind the net, hoping for an open point to shoot directly into the goalies chest plate. It will be interesting to see if we can break that trend. With Friday being an early game and on NESN, I will be watching from the comforts of my couch. For only the second time (in my viewing history) the team is said to be wearing their blue jerseys at home on Saturday. The last time the team actually "blued out BU" they won 4-3 so we will see how that goes this time around.

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

db62, i am so with you on this. How many games have we started down 2 after 5 shots or less. It is never good to be down on your goalie but man can he let some stop-ables in? Yes I have seen some incredible saves all year but I also feel that he often just can't coordinate his movements with the flight of the puck. He also just rockets himself out of position, sliding way outside of the crease and just can't get back in time to make a save. He spends a lot of time on his back as you noted. While very athletic and quick, many of his great looking saves are just his reaction to being way out of position, and having to lung back across the crease. He can stone them when they are close in and he is squared up.

I think next year with Mike Robinson coming in there will be definite competition for gk. Of course, Mike is a 'big guy' and plays a more conventional style than DT does as mentioned in your post. Not to mention D1 hockey will require a break in period and who knows if Mike gets the chance to get playing time? Soooo many variables and there's AC to consider as well. Not to impugn DT's size, style...but can't help but notice that most teams like Harvard, BU, BC etc. seem to have 'that kind' of GK; big, squares to the shot style of play.

And of course, keeping the shots that actually get to the gk matter as well which requires a strong Dzone which we are still in the course of developing since Pesce et al left. That in itself is an entire thread to its own! I think there were too many times when the D was not covering at the Vermont game; and that last goal by Mario P was a laser that most goalies would've missed (see the shot by Wyse the night before). Plus...Chanter could spend just one night out of the box...just saying. I love the fiesty stuff but he's way too volatile out there IMHO. That has been his game plan no matter how much playing time he has.

I guess it comes down to working to keep the shots down to a minimum that reach your gk, no matter who he is. Isn't that was the D is supposed to do? I know it doesn't help to be down 2-0 every game but that's also an offensive issue. So many things make up a good strong team..we haven't been able to put all of the ingredients necessary on the ice at the same time in the same year as of late. Until we do that...we will continue to miss Regionals, trips to the Garden, HE championships.

I know that's harsh to say and you all know how I feel about this program. It's just the way of it.

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

Bad news last night for the 'Cats, as BU comes up short to Harvard in the Beanpot Finals ...



... so UNH isn't going to get the "fat & happy" Terriers this weekend - it'll be the P.O.'ed and focused ones instead.

Not good for home ice in the MBPBEGAM round. And not good for The Quest either.

Surprised no one has taken a shot at the trivia question from the post-UVM update ...

This makes me nervous...and I don't mean just in the 'win the game' kind of nervous. I worry about player injury after what I have seen of a few BU players notably, McAvoy and some of his 'checks'. But I guess we are going to have to give as good as we get and I'm all for a hard hitting hockey game.

That being said it's interesting reading the comments over at the BU board after this loss. You can bet David Quinn and co. want to make a big point with us and I hope we are ready for this task. Also...in the past two seasons we have done ok with BU. Last year, while we tied/lost by 1. Year before, won/lost (and big 3-6). So...bring it and let's see what happens. Kind of wish they had won tho but am glad for Harvard. They looked very, very good last night.

ps...the ans to your question Chuck is 'who is Glenn Stewart'?

[After the Whistle]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

Bad game for the team overall but how is Tirone still in the game after the soft goals he has let in tonight. Getting beat on clean shots, on his back half the game. Mr Hyde is back!

db62, i am so with you on this. How many games have we started down 2 after 5 shots or less. It is never good to be down on your goalie but man can he let some stop-ables in? Yes I have seen some incredible saves all year but I also feel that he often just can't coordinate his movements with the flight of the puck. He also just rockets himself out of position, sliding way outside of the crease and just can't get back in time to make a save. He spends a lot of time on his back as you noted. While very athletic and quick, many of his great looking saves are just his reaction to being way out of position, and having to lung back across the crease. He can stone them when they are close in and he is squared up.

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!

... so UNH isn't going to get the "fat & happy" Terriers this weekend - it'll be the P.O.'ed and focused ones instead

If BU plays P.O'ed and focused it will be the first time since December...