UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

So, with Vela the only announced injury, can we presume McNicholas and Hill are under some unannounced team sanction?

Prior years the complaint was too much ice time for seniors. Be careful what we ask for.

[HockeyRef]

We will win some games this year including a significant upset or 2, but my expectation going into each game is a loss until the play convinces me otherwise so my weekend prediction is 0 - 2.

Unless a player or 2 steps up the scoring we will be fortunate to average 2.5 goals/game this season.

That's a given...are we looking to Frosh like Grasso to be the one? Need Vela back...Nazarian has shown he can out it in the net too . Man hoping for some type of positives for the sake of the team....Love your comment about Lazarro (sp) but imagine DT gets the nod...

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

This morning, I'll do a "clear the decks" series of responses to a few issues hanging out there. But first, as a matter of preliminaries, a quick response to JvR's biggest fan, who overstates the case for his man *just* a wee bit ...

He's actually done it a couple of times when healthy. It's to the point where I think you can safely assume that's who he is. He entered the league at a fairly young age, I don't think he's hit his prime yet. AND he's put up those numbers while playing for, wait for it, the freaking Toronto Maple Leafs, one of the most inept, bottom dwellers in the league for the entire time he's been there. It's not like he's been surrounded by all star talent that gets him the puck or takes attention off of him. Put him on, I don't know, the Sharks, with Joe Thornton feeding him the puck the past few years and it's not a stretch to say he could be putting up 40 goals a year.

Bottom line imo, JVR is easily a top 6 forward in the league for the next 10 years, and that's probably selling him short. Don't get me wrong on TVR, I want him to succeed and have been very happy for him - UNH kid, obviously worked hard to get where he has, etc. - but to me he feels more like a second pairing D at best and much more like a 3rd pairing guy. Yes, he's playing a lot for the Hawks, aka a team hard up against the cap who has to play younger, cheaper guys and hope that the superstars around them keep the play at a high level.

Now, if you had said Pesce, I'd still take JVR but I'd have to think harder about that one.

You do realize JvR played the first half of his NHL career in Philly, right? Gagne, Briere, Carter, Richards, etc.? And had Phil Kessel riding shotgun with him when he scored his 30 in Toronto (I'll overlook the gaudy +/- stats those guys posted because I'm feeling generous today)??

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=105417

30/60 once - and barely. JvR may now be a top 6 forward, but on a good team, he's currently 3rd line material, and once he hits 30 - and being "who he is" (which is a three time twenty (20) goal scorer) he doesn't have the all-around game to hold up as a 3rd or 4th liner. Not unless he gets some Yzerman religion. At least he's got "mini-Bowman" Babcock to get him straightened out. For now ... or else.

Interesting how Philly traded him to Toronto for the immortal Luke Schenn even-up 3 years into his career. Luke Schenn, another high pick who hasn't materialized, and is already the prototypical 3rd pairing NHL D-man. TvR and Pesce have both already overtaken JvR's trade partner ... anyway, I think you're seeing a parallel universe JvR whose real-life meme is quickly running out of time to realize his potential. Just sayin ...

So, with Vela the only announced injury, can we presume McNicholas and Hill are under some unannounced team sanction?

Have to assume so, I'm pretty sure 5th year senior Hill didn't come back without some assurances that (barring injury or suspension) he would play regularly.

Clark should get the start regardless. The team has zero chance so, when the inevitable happens, how can you blame the goalie? How much zone time in the first? Maybe three minutes, including a PP. Ugh!

Agree it's hard to blame the goalie for everything ... but lots of folks piled onto Tirone on here last weekend, and while he let in a softie or two, it was mostly down to really poor defensive zone coverage. Probably like last night ...

Man, keeping these kids' spirits in the season is going to be tough. This will be pretty routine for them, and judging from how they quit at the end of the second before the fifth goal, they are lost. Brings me back to the 85-86 5 win season.

No way Dick hits 600, and 590 might be tough.

Stay tuned for next week's update on "Umile's Last Stand". I'm still clinging to a one win weekend at this point.

Maybe a cupcake, but one can no longer call us the SMTs.

True. Looks like there was a lot of stickwork and frustration as the game went on last night ...

Prior years the complaint was too much ice time for seniors. Be careful what we ask for.

Hill = MacDonald. McNicholas (not a senior) = Gaudreault. Chanter = Smith.

Meet the *new* gang ... same (or worse?) than the old gang ...

Bring on Clarkson. It will be interesting to see (1) who plays in goal, and (2) if there are any changes up front?

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Agree it's hard to blame the goalie for everything ... but lots of folks piled onto Tirone on here last weekend, and while he let in a softie or two, it was mostly down to really poor defensive zone coverage. Probably like last night ...

Chuck,, Tirone is criticized more than Clark because he's not as good as Clark. Tirone's deficiencies are well documented. Look at Clark compared to him and tell me that he is not better. I really don't want to debate this much because the team rises and falls not so much because whose in goal but what's in front of him. It really is mind boggling how far UNH has fallen in such a short time. But I have seen it before, in the eighties. UNH made the eight team NCAA tournament in 1983 and three years later they won just five games. It is eerie how the end-of-career fortunes of Charlie Holt and Dick Umile are so similar. You take a disengaged coach who trusts his assistants to bring in the players and, when they don't, he doesn't have the gumption to call them on it. This is what you wind up with. From that dismal five win season it took four years for the team to reach .500 again. And to reach that level it took a new recruiting philosophy and a new coaching philosophy. Will it happen again? Thoughts?

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

This morning, I'll do a "clear the decks" series of responses to a few issues hanging out there. But first, as a matter of preliminaries, a quick response to JvR's biggest fan, who overstates the case for his man *just* a wee bit ...

Going all Dan Shaughnessy on us...

You do realize JvR played the first half of his NHL career in Philly, right? Gagne, Briere, Carter, Richards, etc.? And had Phil Kessel riding shotgun with him when he scored his 30 in Toronto (I'll overlook the gaudy +/- stats those guys posted because I'm feeling generous today)??

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=105417

I really wish you hadn't responded, I'd love to let this go, but you know...

You do realize he was 20, 21, 22 when he played in Philly, right? And put up what I guess only I'd consider pretty good numbers for a guy that age, including a 20 goal season and more than respectable playoff numbers. Honestly, if you have a problem with his production playing in the NHL at that age, I think you might be trying a little too hard to make your case.

30/60 once - and barely.

You're right your Honor, I stand humbly corrected. He followed up that 30-31-61 season with a measly 27-29-56. The yawning statistical chasm between those two seasons is mind boggling. How could I ever have considered them more or less the same thing? Sometimes I forget the historical responsibilities we have to accuracy when posting here on USCHO. Decades hence when scholars are pouring over these threads in the Library of Congress I'd hate to think I led them astray...

Interesting how Philly traded him to Toronto for the immortal Luke Schenn even-up 3 years into his career.

Did you really just base a point off the Flyers front office's ability to evaluate talent? Seriously?


Seriously? Chuck, you're better than that. That one was too easy.

[e.cat]

Going all Dan Shaughnessy on us...

I really wish you hadn't responded, I'd love to let this go, but you know...

You do realize he was 20, 21, 22 when he played in Philly, right? And put up what I guess only I'd consider pretty good numbers for a guy that age, including a 20 goal season and more than respectable playoff numbers. Honestly, if you have a problem with his production playing in the NHL at that age, I think you might be trying a little too hard to make your case.

You're right your Honor, I stand humbly corrected. He followed up that 30-31-61 season with a measly 27-29-56. The yawning statistical chasm between those two seasons is mind boggling. How could I ever have considered them more or less the same thing? Sometimes I forget the historical responsibilities we have to accuracy when posting here on USCHO. Decades hence when scholars are pouring over these threads in the Library of Congress I'd hate to think I led them astray...

Did you really just base a point off the Flyers front office's ability to evaluate talent? Seriously?


Seriously? Chuck, you're better than that. That one was too easy.

I once accused Chuck of being more verbose than a Philadelphia lawyer back in the day (remember that Chuck?).Some things never change!

My question for Chuck is; You seem to have written off BvR after one game. Isn't that a rush to judgement?

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Darius - I think when boiled down the complaints revolved around less talented and less deserving players on the ice in place of better options in the seats. Seems, unless there is a suspension, we're right on schedule...

Greg is right on about the goalies - one is just better. Though he certainly didn't run with his opportunity which, based on precedent, may end up as an excuse to give Tirone a long leash starting tonight...

EJ - don't bother, Chuck simply hates talent. I think deep down this is secretly his favorite era of UNH hockey. An entire team of hard working, every man kids. Except for that showboating #16, amirite Chuck?! Here's to Salvaggio potting eight goals and cracking Chuck's top-ten UNH forwards of all-time...

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Yeah, I know. Just kidding around - the only way I am going to make it through the season. Jay Camper is not walking through that door.

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

You take a disengaged coach who trusts his assistants to bring in the players and, when they don't, he doesn't have the gumption to call them on it.

I have not seen Umile lack the gumption. One might argue he's got too much gumption, and his boss way too little (or none).

[Drew S.]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Chuck,, Tirone is criticized more than Clark because he's not as good as Clark. Tirone's deficiencies are well documented. Look at Clark compared to him and tell me that he is not better. I really don't want to debate this much because the team rises and falls not so much because whose in goal but what's in front of him. It really is mind boggling how far UNH has fallen in such a short time. But I have seen it before, in the eighties. UNH made the eight team NCAA tournament in 1983 and three years later they won just five games. It is eerie how the end-of-career fortunes of Charlie Holt and Dick Umile are so similar. You take a disengaged coach who trusts his assistants to bring in the players and, when they don't, he doesn't have the gumption to call them on it. This is what you wind up with. From that dismal five win season it took four years for the team to reach .500 again. And to reach that level it took a new recruiting philosophy and a new coaching philosophy. Will it happen again? Thoughts?

You guys are five to seven years away from being respectable again. It won't be an enjoyable period but once things turn round it will be that much sweeter.

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Lines pretty much what is expected with DT starting, Dylan Chanter will center the 4th line, we will go with 3 D pairs...with Nick Nonis getting a shot tonight (not sure if he played last night?) with the 2nd pair/ Wyse playing 3rd line with Dawson. Joe Sacco will play as well 4th line along with Chanter and Cefalu. Go 'Cats!

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Lines pretty much what is expected with DT starting, Dylan Chanter will center the 4th line, we will go with 3 D pairs...with Nick Nonis getting a shot tonight (not sure if he played last night?) with the 2nd pair/ Wyse playing 3rd line with Dawson. Joe Sacco will play as well 4th line along with Chanter and Cefalu. Go 'Cats!

According to the box score he did not. According to the box score 19 players did, leaving the term "play" open to interpretation.

[scoreboard]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

1-0 Clarkson 90 seconds in....

[scoreboard]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

2-0 ten minutes in......

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Grasso on the PP! Another goal for the Freshie!