Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

    Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
    ...and if one has to make a promise to get somebody away from uconn, maybe that means what you are offering isn't all that great to begin with.
    Looks like they deleted my post. REALLY!?
    Originally posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010
    The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

    Comment


    • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

      Originally posted by Nick Papagiorgio View Post
      Looks like they deleted my post. REALLY!?
      I didn't report it, but you must have seen the rapeyness of it?
      BS UMass Lowell 2015
      PhD Georgia Institute of Technology 2020

      Comment


      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

        Originally posted by UML Puck Hawk View Post
        I didn't report it, but you must have seen the rapeyness of it?
        Uh no. Quite the opposite.
        Originally posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010
        The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
          I think 'Watcher covered my thoughts on this issue pretty well.

          And nearly as much verbiage as a typical WIS post, too.
          I'll concede that there are some benchmarks that have to be reached but, really, how onerous do they have to be in order for Souza not to get the job? In his three years as an associate does the team have to make the NCAAs, advance to the final eight in HE, or have a winning record? Or are we looking at something a bit more nebulous. That the kids he brings in are an improvement over those who left, for instance.

          Let me ask you (and Watcher) this. Is there anything in Marty's UNH resume which indicates that he is a hard grader, that if the coaches don't perform up to a certain level he gets rid of him? And the answer is not McCloskey or Karen Kay.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Nick Papagiorgio View Post
            Looks like they deleted my post. REALLY!?
            Yeah, I didn't either, although like Hawk, I am not surprised it got removed, along with dozens of spam threads.

            Comment


            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

              Originally posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
              I'll concede that there are some benchmarks that have to be reached but, really, how onerous do they have to be in order for Souza not to get the job? In his three years as an associate does the team have to make the NCAAs, advance to the final eight in HE, or have a winning record? Or are we looking at something a bit more nebulous. That the kids he brings in are an improvement over those who left, for instance.

              Let me ask you (and Watcher) this. Is there anything in Marty's UNH resume which indicates that he is a hard grader, that if the coaches don't perform up to a certain level he gets rid of him? And the answer is not McCloskey or Karen Kay.
              No - I agree, there is nothing in the AD's UNH resume to suggest he is a hard grader. See Herrion, Bill.

              As to the benchmarks ... I'd say Year One didn't do Coach Souza any favors, but it's probably going to be the least heavily weighted year of the three season lead-in. Good one to get out of your system quickly, and move forwards.

              Now ... this season, with the strength of schedule (*tee-hee*) significantly down from last season, I think Coach Souza runs a risk if they don't at least match last season's performance (and I use that term very loosely). That's not exactly a high bar to meet or (hopefully) to exceed ... BUT if that doesn't happen - and by now, you'd have to concede Souza's impact should at least be surfacing positively with the program - then I think the issue of what happens with Coach Souza in "Year Four" becomes a question to some degree. And by Year Three, there's no question Coach Souza's recruits (not to mention working with the current roster on a daily basis) should be emerging as a force within the program. So, if we're playing "what if?" ... IF UNH's on-ice results continue to gradually stagnate or erode through Year Three, I'm thinking the "Year Four" of the Coach Souza plan might be open for debate and reconsideration.

              Coach Umile can make this a lot easier on him, his boss, and his would-be successor if he just pulls a .500 season out of his hat this year. And it's pretty darned clear BS35+4 had set things up pretty sweetly for him to do at least that well. IF he gets that kind of a season from Coach Umile this season, then it takes a lot of pressure off everyone to just play out Year Three of the plan, get coach to the next round number (if you think this season's NC schedule is soft, wait 'til next season ), and let things roll with the Coach Souza era.

              Now IF Coach Umile craters with this year's team - and make no mistake, a repeat of last season's record (given the strength *tee-hee* of schedule) would be a "crater" - it gets interesting. "The ____ for 600" becomes a bad joke, and any ordinary coach in those shoes might give some serious thought to stepping aside before continued poor performances not only mars his own legacy, but also puts the future of his hand-picked successor - Coach's "legacy" - in great jeopardy. But no one I know or have ever spoken to around the UNH program has any expectation that Coach would ever leave of his own volition. So, does BS35+4 ...

              * buy out Coach Umile's final year, and force Coach Souza to sink or swim a year early?
              * threaten not to automatically continue with Coach Souza in 2018/2019 if DU won't resign?
              * fire them both (with appropriate buyouts, to be fair) and start anew with a national search?

              I have no expectation that any UNH teams over the remainder of Coach Umile's tenure will be making the D-1 tourney, and my belief in any shot at a winning record during that stretch is dying an early death with the team's non-performance over their first 11 games. "Advancing" to the final 8 of the HE Tourney is just a pathetic standard for UNH (wow, we won the MBPBEGAM round!! ) but a trip to Boston is probably enough to salvage THIS season and ensure Umile (and Souza) get to see out the Three Year Plan.

              IF - and I'm saying IF - this year craters, I have every reason to believe a hard decision will be made to relieve Coach Umile before next season, so he can get a proper send-off in February/March 2017. And so Coach Souza gets a fair chance before further damage is done to the program while he's waiting patiently in the wings. Would Coach Umile accept such a scenario to "save" his hand-picked successor's UNH coaching career ... or is he stubborn enough to drag the whole thing down around him (including Coach Souza)?

              ... and amidst all of this uncertainty, whither Coach Stewart? I'm amazed he's still there TBH ...
              Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
              Montreal Expos Forever ...

              Comment


              • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                Originally posted by Nick Papagiorgio View Post
                Looks like they deleted my post. REALLY!?
                Watch out - the Thought Police will be after you for your location next, Nick.

                Remember when this place used to be fun? Now it's just a sad reflection of the outside world, with wanna-be social justice warriors parsing words in a truly misguided attempt to play "gotcha". Hey, at least you didn't say posse ...

                ( ... half-expecting the swear filter or whatever it's called to snag that one ... )
                Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                Montreal Expos Forever ...

                Comment


                • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                  UNH SOS at 40 not the lowest in HEA, which is held by Mac at 41. But, still plenty of opportunity over the next month to claim the SOS basement.

                  Comment


                  • Greg
                    I hear you about Marty's general lenience, but do wonder if different rules apply to a former key revenue sport. This is a decision that might show up on his bonus metrics.
                    The Umile legacy:
                    14-15 8th place,
                    15-16 10th place
                    16-17 10th place
                    17-18 11th place
                    18-19 8th place
                    19-20 9th place
                    20-21 10th place
                    21-22 9th place

                    Comment


                    • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                      Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
                      Greg
                      I hear you about Marty's general lenience, but do wonder if different rules apply to a former key revenue sport. This is a decision that might show up on his bonus metrics.
                      Playing to half-filled houses and road games in the MBPBEGAM playoffs can't be helping those metrics ...
                      Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                      Montreal Expos Forever ...

                      Comment


                      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                        Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
                        Watch out - the Thought Police will be after you for your location next, Nick.

                        Remember when this place used to be fun? Now it's just a sad reflection of the outside world, with wanna-be social justice warriors parsing words in a truly misguided attempt to play "gotcha". Hey, at least you didn't say posse ...

                        ( ... half-expecting the swear filter or whatever it's called to snag that one ... )
                        Seems like some mamby pamby people consider this board their safe space. Gimme a break right Chuck?
                        Originally posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010
                        The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
                          Greg
                          I hear you about Marty's general lenience, but do wonder if different rules apply to a former key revenue sport. This is a decision that might show up on his bonus metrics.
                          The only coaches dismissed in Marty's tenure where those who had issues off the field of play. McCloskey, Kay, and wasn't there a ski coach who was dismissed? I suppose if UNH plays in the bottom 10% of all D1 programs over the next year, Marty will need to reassess. But it is not in his DNA to summarily dismiss a coach or its equivalent because of wins and losses.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
                            The only coaches dismissed in Marty's tenure where those who had issues off the field of play. McCloskey, Kay, and wasn't there a ski coach who was dismissed? I suppose if UNH plays in the bottom 10% of all D1 programs over the next year, Marty will need to reassess. But it is not in his DNA to summarily dismiss a coach or its equivalent because of wins and losses.
                            But saying "dismissed" kind of begs the question on a kid who hasn't even been hired yet. He's on probation. Your comments on wins and losses is right in one sense. Souza is playing with others' recruits. But it is fair to see whether he has coached them up. Second, while playing with others' recruits, he has had flexibility to supplement the gaps this year. He did not do so. Third, the future. I don't know if Marty is even in a position to evaluate recruiting. His only inside people are Umile who would know nothing, and Stewart and Souza. I hope Marty uses time during conferences to talk to outsiders and get their views on whether recruiting portends an upswing. It might be different than his current limited feedback.
                            The Umile legacy:
                            14-15 8th place,
                            15-16 10th place
                            16-17 10th place
                            17-18 11th place
                            18-19 8th place
                            19-20 9th place
                            20-21 10th place
                            21-22 9th place

                            Comment


                            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                              Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
                              No - I agree, there is nothing in the AD's UNH resume to suggest he is a hard grader. See Herrion, Bill.

                              As to the benchmarks ... I'd say Year One didn't do Coach Souza any favors, but it's probably going to be the least heavily weighted year of the three season lead-in. Good one to get out of your system quickly, and move forwards.

                              Now ... this season, with the strength of schedule (*tee-hee*) significantly down from last season, I think Coach Souza runs a risk if they don't at least match last season's performance (and I use that term very loosely). That's not exactly a high bar to meet or (hopefully) to exceed ... BUT if that doesn't happen - and by now, you'd have to concede Souza's impact should at least be surfacing positively with the program - then I think the issue of what happens with Coach Souza in "Year Four" becomes a question to some degree. And by Year Three, there's no question Coach Souza's recruits (not to mention working with the current roster on a daily basis) should be emerging as a force within the program. So, if we're playing "what if?" ... IF UNH's on-ice results continue to gradually stagnate or erode through Year Three, I'm thinking the "Year Four" of the Coach Souza plan might be open for debate and reconsideration.

                              Coach Umile can make this a lot easier on him, his boss, and his would-be successor if he just pulls a .500 season out of his hat this year. And it's pretty darned clear BS35+4 had set things up pretty sweetly for him to do at least that well. IF he gets that kind of a season from Coach Umile this season, then it takes a lot of pressure off everyone to just play out Year Three of the plan, get coach to the next round number (if you think this season's NC schedule is soft, wait 'til next season ), and let things roll with the Coach Souza era.

                              Now IF Coach Umile craters with this year's team - and make no mistake, a repeat of last season's record (given the strength *tee-hee* of schedule) would be a "crater" - it gets interesting. "The ____ for 600" becomes a bad joke, and any ordinary coach in those shoes might give some serious thought to stepping aside before continued poor performances not only mars his own legacy, but also puts the future of his hand-picked successor - Coach's "legacy" - in great jeopardy. But no one I know or have ever spoken to around the UNH program has any expectation that Coach would ever leave of his own volition. So, does BS35+4 ...

                              * buy out Coach Umile's final year, and force Coach Souza to sink or swim a year early?
                              * threaten not to automatically continue with Coach Souza in 2018/2019 if DU won't resign?
                              * fire them both (with appropriate buyouts, to be fair) and start anew with a national search?

                              I have no expectation that any UNH teams over the remainder of Coach Umile's tenure will be making the D-1 tourney, and my belief in any shot at a winning record during that stretch is dying an early death with the team's non-performance over their first 11 games. "Advancing" to the final 8 of the HE Tourney is just a pathetic standard for UNH (wow, we won the MBPBEGAM round!! ) but a trip to Boston is probably enough to salvage THIS season and ensure Umile (and Souza) get to see out the Three Year Plan.

                              IF - and I'm saying IF - this year craters, I have every reason to believe a hard decision will be made to relieve Coach Umile before next season, so he can get a proper send-off in February/March 2017. And so Coach Souza gets a fair chance before further damage is done to the program while he's waiting patiently in the wings. Would Coach Umile accept such a scenario to "save" his hand-picked successor's UNH coaching career ... or is he stubborn enough to drag the whole thing down around him (including Coach Souza)?

                              ... and amidst all of this uncertainty, whither Coach Stewart? I'm amazed he's still there TBH ...
                              Chuck, interesting points, but tell me why would Marty fire Souza/let him go when he hasn't had the chance to prove himself? (I know we are waiting to see recruiting results so that has to be at this point anyway, the only 'benchmark' one could/would have regarding his 'performance' as a coach...lemme know if I have that right). I would be very surprised if:

                              *DU leaves after this season...unless the $$ was there obviously in a buy out type of deal
                              *MSouza also gets the ax...if DU says ok I'm done..(see the above as I'm doubting that will happen...has UNH ever done a 'scorched earth' type of thing?
                              *UNH goes after the big fish in a National search....(If they really wanted to do this MSouza wouldn't have been named "HC in waiting" in the first place?)

                              The reason I think the last point is true is because why would they allow DU to have this 3 year 'deal' he has and allow him to pick his heir apparent if that was their intention in the first place?!? Makes no sense...the die is cast if you ask me. I mean...is this what you want to happen personally because quite frankly, even with my limited time as a fan (and I'll acknowledge still learning the ropes) I'd be shocked if any of these 'predictions' will pan out...I just think DU has too much pride in all of this, and I'm doubting Marty can actually pull the plug...despite fan complaints that have come his way.

                              'course I thought the election would be different also so there's that...
                              Last edited by HockeyRef; 11-17-2016, 10:06 AM.
                              Here we go 'Cats!!

                              Comment


                              • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                                Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
                                Chuck, interesting points, but tell me why would Marty fire Souza/let him go when he hasn't had the chance to prove himself? (I know we are waiting to see recruiting results so that has to be at this point anyway, the only 'benchmark' one could/would have regarding his 'performance' as a coach...lemme know if I have that right). I would be very surprised if:

                                *DU leaves after this season...unless the $$ was there obviously in a buy out type of deal
                                *MSouza also gets the ax...if DU says ok I'm done..(see the above as I'm doubting that will happen...has UNH ever done a 'scorched earth' type of thing?
                                *UNH goes after the big fish in a National search....(If they really wanted to do this MSouza wouldn't have been named "HC in waiting" in the first place?)

                                The reason I think the last point is true is because why would they allow DU to have this 3 year 'deal' he has and allow him to pick his heir apparent if that was their intention in the first place?!? Makes no sense...the die is cast if you ask me. I mean...is this what you want to happen personally because quite frankly, even with my limited time as a fan (and I'll acknowledge still learning the ropes) I'd be shocked if any of these 'predictions' will pan out...I just think DU has too much pride in all of this, and I'm doubting Marty can actually pull the plug...despite fan complaints that have come his way.

                                'course I thought the election would be different also so there's that...
                                I think 'Watcher's post this morning touches on something that's been overlooked to a degree. Yeah, we all want to see what Souza can do with his recruiting work ... but we also need to look at whether he's shown an ability to "coach up" the players he's been left to work with until his own guys begin to arrive on campus. Say what you will about Borek, but we do have a pretty solid baseline from his last several seasons of bringing in mid-level talent and getting them to play at a .500 level in D-1, and slightly above/below that in Hockey East.

                                In the one-plus seasons since Borek left and Souza replaced him, players mostly/entirely recruited during Borek's tenure have performed at a much lower level (last season), and I'm afraid they may be on the same track for this season - despite the cupcake-laden NC schedule. And given the opportunity to fill some unexpected openings with his own players, Souza has chosen not (or been unable?) to do so.

                                So actually ... I would say Souza already gets the chance to prove himself. Every day. Not too many assistants get a 3 year head start on a head coaching job, and basically get to "shop for the groceries" themselves. I know if I hired someone under those circumstances, and watched those years go by with the anointed successor doing precious little to warrant his early selection, I wouldn't be giving him a whole lot of extra rope in his "new" position. Because by the time 2018/2019 rolls around, Souza's not going to be "new" anymore, and the UNH roster should be stocked with HIS players. So the usual excuses - which may apply to a dwindling degree now - should be irrelevant in two years.

                                Just for the record ... I want Coach Umile to get to his 600 (and then some), and enjoy some success in big games before he retires, and I'm rooting for Coach Souza to make BS35+4 look like a frickin' genius afterwards. 'Cuz as a UNH fan, I want the program to be successful again, sooner rather than later. I am not in this for masochism. Their win is our win. But we're going to be at the midpoint of The Great 3 Year Plan in a month, and up to now, I don't know how anyone can term what's happened so far as having been in any way successful. And if things don't turn around in the next 30 or so days ...
                                Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                                Montreal Expos Forever ...

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X