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UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

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  • I'd argue Kelleher - while not the cream of the crop - IS one of the elite forward talents in UNH history. He's going to push 150 career points. No small feat in this era of college hockey, with this era of UNH teammates and after being banished to a fourth line role as a freshman by a coach who will remain nameless...

    Imagine what he would have done offensively if he played with scorers like Haydar, Collins or Hemingway or alongside fellow burners like Saviano or Bogey. Comparing him to guys like Sadowski, Shipulski, Willows or Sorkin etc is insulting. Some in this thread make it sound like he's a poor mans Johnny Rogers...

    He was among the top national scorers last season playing on a two man line (team?)...

    I find it ridiculous when people argue they'd rather have or prefer the inferior player who exceeds his low ceiling by 10% than the superior talent who may not meet sky high expectations, ignoring the fact that 95% of the second players potential is still double that of the former...

    This is what leads to post season discussion that vilifies a Poturalski and anoints a Chris Miller. It's silly...
    Last edited by Dan; 10-25-2016, 03:16 PM.
    Live Free or Die!!
    Miami University '03

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    • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

      Originally posted by Dan View Post
      I'd argue Kelleher - while not the cream of the crop - IS one of the elite forward talents in UNH history. He's going to push 150 career points. No small feat in this era of college hockey, with this era of UNH teammates and after being banished to a fourth line role as a freshman by a coach who will remain nameless...

      Imagine what he would have done offensively if he played with scorers like Haydar, Collins or Hemingway or alongside fellow burners like Saviano or Bogey. Comparing him to guys like Sadowski, Shipulski, Willows or Sorkin etc is insulting. Some in this thread make it sound like he's a poor mans Johnny Rogers...

      He was among the top national scorers last season playing on a two man line (team?)...

      I find it ridiculous when people argue they'd rather have or prefer the inferior player who exceeds his low ceiling by 10% than the superior talent who may not meet sky high expectations, ignoring the fact that 95% of the second players potential is still double that of the former...

      This is what leads to post season discussion that vilifies a Poturalski and anoints a Chris Miller. It's silly...
      Nailed it, on all accounts.

      Anyone who thinks Jason Krog would put up 84 pts as a senior on this year's team just because he's Jason Krog is out of touch with reality.
      I went home with a waitress the way I always do
      How was I to know she was with the russians, too?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by chickod View Post
        "The negativity in this town sucks...." - Rick Pitino

        Ralph Cox and Jamie Hislop and Cliffy Cox are not comin' through that door! Krog , Haydar and Collins are not comin' through that door!

        Mike Souza is though

        I'm just here to help.
        GO BLUE/GO UNH

        COLLEGE HOCKEY RULES

        Comment


        • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

          Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
          There is an interesting question not answered here. Probably not one anyone wants to articulate.
          Is that question, "What leverage does UNH have to push Umile off of the 'lifetime contract'?"

          Originally posted by deltabravo62 View Post
          3 seasons ago it was Agosta, Hardowa was 4 seasons ago.
          Agosta was the one I was forgetting. And EJ mentioned Kessel, who wasn't too far removed either.

          Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
          He's at least Saviano, closer to collins.
          I'd say he is a better offensive player than Saviano, but lacks his all around game and leadership.

          Originally posted by Dan View Post
          I'd argue Kelleher - while not the cream of the crop - IS one of the elite forward talents in UNH history. He's going to push 150 career points. No small feat in this era of college hockey, with this era of UNH teammates and after being banished to a fourth line role as a freshman by a coach who will remain nameless... Overall I agree with this ... although I get hives when considering exactly what does "elite" mean

          Imagine what he would have done offensively if he played with scorers like Haydar, Collins or Hemingway or alongside fellow burners like Saviano or Bogey. Comparing him to guys like Sadowski, Shipulski, Willows or Sorkin etc is insulting. Some in this thread make it sound like he's a poor mans Johnny Rogers...

          He was among the top national scorers last season playing on a two man line (team?)...

          I find it ridiculous when people argue they'd rather have or prefer the inferior player who exceeds his low ceiling by 10% than the superior talent who may not meet sky high expectations, ignoring the fact that 95% of the second players potential is still double that of the former...

          This is what leads to post season discussion that vilifies a Poturalski and anoints a Chris Miller. It's silly...
          I'll 'fess up to at least being ambivalent to Poturalski's departure, and less than enamored over his second half performance (double that for some key moments in the MBPBEGAM playoffs). I'm pretty sure I've never anointed Miller. If I did, I should have my head examined ... apparently next to Coach or whomever came up with that beauty about Miller having the best wrister in HE.

          I want to be clear about the comparison Greg made to the '97 Cats and where someone like Kelleher would have fit in (and I do still agree with Greg - we're talking 3rd line). Here were the first six names on the UNH forwards depth chart that season, along with the 3 frosh 3rd liners who made up the "S Line":

          Eric Nickulas
          Mark Mowers
          Tom Nolan
          Jason Krog
          Derek Bekar
          Eric Boguniecki

          ----------

          John Sadowski (70 career pts.)
          Jason Shipulski (almost 90 career pts.)
          Mike Souza (over 150 career pts.)


          Listen, I have a ton of time for Tyler Kelleher, but if you really think he could crack the top six on that team ... *maybe* your only argument is that he's marginally better than Nolan (the only one of those guys BTW who didn't make it to The Show), but I'd say that Nolan was a more ferocious player who played with a needed physical "edge" (of those other guys, I'd say only Bogey and Sadowski played with anything remotely approaching an "edge". But in fairness, that '97 team may have been the deepest crop of forwards UNH ever had ... and skating on the 3rd line was hardly an insult.

          Ironically, I'm pretty sure the Nolans and Kellehers are pretty tight, and I've heard it on good authority that Nolan had a lot to do with the Kellehers coming to UNH.

          Whither UNH next season without Kelleher up front, and without Cleland on the backline ...
          Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
          Montreal Expos Forever ...

          Comment


          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

            Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
            Is that question, "What leverage does UNH have to push Umile off of the 'lifetime contract'?"
            Slight variant, from the other side of the equation.
            The Umile legacy:
            14-15 8th place,
            15-16 10th place
            16-17 10th place
            17-18 11th place
            18-19 8th place
            19-20 9th place
            20-21 10th place
            21-22 9th place

            Comment


            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

              Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
              Slight variant, from the other side of the equation.
              Aaahhh ... gotcha.
              Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
              Montreal Expos Forever ...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
                He's at least Saviano, closer to collins.
                Not even close.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Dan View Post
                  I'd argue Kelleher - while not the cream of the crop - IS one of the elite forward talents in UNH history. He's going to push 150 career points. No small feat in this era of college hockey, with this era of UNH teammates and after being banished to a fourth line role as a freshman by a coach who will remain nameless...

                  Imagine what he would have done offensively if he played with scorers like Haydar, Collins or Hemingway or alongside fellow burners like Saviano or Bogey. Comparing him to guys like Sadowski, Shipulski, Willows or Sorkin etc is insulting. Some in this thread make it sound like he's a poor mans Johnny Rogers...

                  He was among the top national scorers last season playing on a two man line (team?)...

                  I find it ridiculous when people argue they'd rather have or prefer the inferior player who exceeds his low ceiling by 10% than the superior talent who may not meet sky high expectations, ignoring the fact that 95% of the second players potential is still double that of the former...


                  This is what leads to post season discussion that vilifies a Poturalski and anoints a Chris Miller. It's silly...
                  The discussion was whether he was the equivalent of Mark Mowers, not John Sadowski.

                  Comment


                  • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                    This coming weekend

                    UNH; UMass; Merrimack
                    Team O: 36th, 2.75; 22nd, 3.33; 46th, 2.20
                    Team D: 48th, 4.50; tie24th, 3.00; tie24th, 3.00
                    PP: 42nd, 3-27, 11.11; 53rd, 2-15, 8.00; 49th, 4-43, 9.30
                    PK: 38th, 18-22, 81.8; 18th, 21-24, 87.5; 22nd, 32-37, 86.5
                    Pmin: 44th, 26-52, 13.0; tie13th, 44-99, 19.80; 21st, 26-52, 17.33
                    SHG: 1, 0, 1
                    GAA: Tirone, 1-2-0, 3.74 GAA, 0.876 Sv%; Wischow, 2-0-0, 2.37, 0.923; Vogler, 2-2-0, 2.67, 0.911
                    No SOG

                    “Just trying to help”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by wildcatdc View Post
                      Okay, I've been going back and forth on whether to post this, but given the paroxysms of agony being expressed here, I'm going to throw it out there, as a FWIW. I have zero intention of engaging in a debate about the quality of the source or the veracity of what was shared. I'll (as Watcher did recently), simply put it out here in the threadosphere for consumption.

                      About three weeks back, i was at an event in Durham and had a chance run-in with somebody apparently pretty "in the know" with our athletic department. I didn't really take anything too seriously until our beloved Coach Bowes made a beeline for this person, interrupting our conversation for a bit. I figured that maybe this would be somebody with some answers, or at the very least, a perspective on what the he\_\_ is going on.

                      I pounced on the chance to ask a few questions (got borderline uncomfortable a couple times), and here's what I heard....

                      1. The three-year out was very much a product of a settlement negotiated by the athletic department. WhenI asked why we had this silly transition, I got a look like I had three heads. This person simply said, "Umile did NOT want to go". While this person didn't say the negotiations were acrimonious or anything, it seems clear that this department that some will say has been fiddling while Rome burns has actually had a proactive, while perhaps not overly effective, hand in the exit, in the face of a lifetime contract.

                      2. More interestingly, (and this is where I think I pushed too far in my questions), it sounds like there may be some efforts underway to ensure that Sonar doesn't have to wait until 2018 to return to the Whitt. That Chuck's "March to 600" may not actually have the necessary runway to be seen through to completion. Perhaps this is what was meant by "interesting times", and "things happening behind the curtain, from Scarano's preseason interview. Don't know. I guess we'll see, and I know I have fingers crossed.

                      I'm simply trying to relay a conversation, not trying to get too deep into conjecture here. I think those that have seen me post know that I prefer facts vs. creating narratives just to try to prove a point. That stated, I will throw one thought out there - IF above are true, I wonder if that has led to some acrimony twixt the department and the program, and has caused some of the lack of attention.

                      Again, I have no interest in a debate here - just sharing the unedited facts from a conversation. And I kind of wish that someone like 1932 were still around to provide perspective on what I heard. I wonder if we are too quick to jump on some posters because they don't adhere to the prevailing narrative - that's particularly unfortunate when it happens to be someone who appears to have access that none of us do.
                      This is interesting to say the least...but not surprising at all. From what I know, behind the scenes there are things that Souza wants to change (lots of little things that go on from day to day within the program, maybe more &#128512 but he hasn't been able to because DU isn't open to it. There aren't issues between the two by any means, MS is just in a spot where he "needs to "wait his turn".

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
                        The discussion was whether he was the equivalent of Mark Mowers, not John Sadowski.
                        No, that was your argument - and while I think you were quite harsh, not on the Mowers comparison but in your critique of Kelleher, who could argue. In the Unile era who was better than Mowers? I'd argue only Krog and Haydar and believe that Mower's arrival (with apologies to so many great forwards of that era) was the final/key piece and the ignition that elevated UNH to its long run of success.

                        The discussion devolved into a strong criticism of Kelleher and my response was directed at the overall tone of the thread and no one in particular. Kelleher was called Shipulski-lite, described as an energy forward, slotted in as a running mate for Sadowski and called out for not cracking the Goumas/Sorkin/Willows line. All of THOSE positions are ridiculous...

                        Shipulski (81 pts - Chuck) and Sadowski combined to crack 20 points twice in their careers. Kelleher is headed towards besting 40 for the third straight year and has played with a grand total of three forwards in his career that would even crack the periphery of this discussion.

                        As a young player - he would have played third line behind the '97 top-six but not in an energy role. THIS is the problem UNH has now - since when does UNH do third line energy guys? Let alone on top lines like Kellehers current mates.

                        I remember a day when young talented kids like Kelleher played behind a Mowers and then inherited his role without missing a beat. UNH has had talent recently - just no where near enough.

                        Kelleher would approach 200 points playing in that era - how you'd stack him up with those guys is up to each one of us individually. I really don't care, because they're all outstanding. Period.

                        Kelleher is a top six forward (likely top three) on any team in the country over each of the last three years. Lest we also forget that he led the NTDP in scoring over his career in Ann Arbor...

                        Yes, Chuck - while typing "Poturalski criticism" you DID come to mind. My overall point re: Poturalski/Miller, however, addressed a personal pet peeve across all fan bases. Miller has certainly gotten high acclaim from many on this board who believe he fits a top six role. And that is largely because he had a solid first year when most of us thought he'd see little ice at all. It's phenomenon that I just dislike and at UNH dates back from Poturalski to JVR to Hemingway, Brett and likely even back to the days when many of you guys were already old and i was not yet alive!!

                        Perhaps someday we will get back to a top-six, a developing third line of studs and a FOURTH line for energy. Unfortunately it will be quite a while because I don't believe the answer is currently on our bench and Dick seems dead set on returning the program in the same manner in which he found it. It's a hockey program Dick, not a rental car...
                        Last edited by Dan; 10-25-2016, 08:14 PM.
                        Live Free or Die!!
                        Miami University '03

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Snively65 View Post
                          This coming weekend

                          UNH; UMass; Merrimack
                          Team O: 36th, 2.75; 22nd, 3.33; 46th, 2.20
                          Team D: 48th, 4.50; tie24th, 3.00; tie24th, 3.00
                          PP: 42nd, 3-27, 11.11; 53rd, 2-15, 8.00; 49th, 4-43, 9.30
                          PK: 38th, 18-22, 81.8; 18th, 21-24, 87.5; 22nd, 32-37, 86.5
                          Pmin: 44th, 26-52, 13.0; tie13th, 44-99, 19.80; 21st, 26-52, 17.33
                          SHG: 1, 0, 1
                          GAA: Tirone, 1-2-0, 3.74 GAA, 0.876 Sv%; Wischow, 2-0-0, 2.37, 0.923; Vogler, 2-2-0, 2.67, 0.911
                          No SOG

                          “Just trying to help”
                          Need to recalculate after tonight; apparently UMass and Mac not cupcakes, like Bentley and CC.

                          Comment


                          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                            Originally posted by Snively65 View Post
                            Need to recalculate after tonight; apparently UMass and Mac not cupcakes, like Bentley and CC.
                            Merrimack: Two wins were against winless Colgate; lost at Clarkson and uber-cupcake Sacred Heart at home
                            UMass: Split with Colorado College at home, other win against uber-cupcake Army 3-2 at home

                            Yup, they're still very beatable cupcake opponents. Time for UNH to get their hangry on!!

                            P.S. to Dan - the following was clever. Ironically, I've gotta pick up a rental later this morning, and I'll report back if there is a DU sighting at the local Enterprise branch

                            ... Dick seems dead set on returning the program in the same manner in which he found it. It's a hockey program Dick, not a rental car...
                            Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                            Montreal Expos Forever ...

                            Comment


                            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                              Originally posted by CatsFan1983 View Post
                              This is interesting to say the least...but not surprising at all. From what I know, behind the scenes there are things that Souza wants to change (lots of little things that go on from day to day within the program, maybe more ��) but he hasn't been able to because DU isn't open to it. There aren't issues between the two by any means, MS is just in a spot where he "needs to "wait his turn".
                              If DU has had any say in this process - and I think most of us believe he has, courtesy of the "negotiations" that got him off his lifetime contract at last - it's pretty disappointing and selfish of him if he's not allowing MS to gradually introduce some tweaks to the program during the three year run-up. It's not like they're coaching a Top Ten program at this point, or even threatening to enter the polls or generate a tourney-worthy PWR. So the methodology can't be viewed and treated like it's untouchable ... yet apparently it is?



                              I've had a lot of contrasting takes on DU over the years ... but DU as a coaching diva? Now that's a first ...
                              Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                              Montreal Expos Forever ...

                              Comment


                              • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                                Glad to read the TyK validation Dan (I know the S-G-W line ref was ridiculous because as you have said in a few occasions TyK's talent was largely under umilized er utilized in his first couple of seasons?)!!

                                PS

                                Snively65 has a point about 'Mack they managed to stymie the Beagles er Eagles with a "relentless forecheck" according to Mike McMahon's blog and we don't handle traps or other sundry pressure that well sooooo....not sure they have the cupcake status they once may have had (and I get nausea when I think or allow myself to think about last season's ending).
                                Here we go 'Cats!!

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