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UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

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  • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

    You guys experiencing the horrors of the North Country trip. Luckily this isn't a regular thing for UNH.

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    • Originally posted by Red Hockey View Post
      You guys experiencing the horrors of the North Country trip. Luckily this isn't a regular thing for UNH.
      Are you saying that these two North Country teams are not cupcakes?

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      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

        Wow...who'd a thunk that Maller would score the 'Cats first 5-on-5 goal of the season??
        UNH

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        • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

          ENG makes it 5-3 'Cats with 39 seconds left...aannnnd that's the game!!! 'Cats win!!!
          UNH

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          • Originally posted by Scott View Post
            ENG makes it 5-3 'Cats with 39 seconds left...aannnnd that's the game!!! 'Cats win!!!
            Which team is now the cupcake? Nice come-from-behind win by the Cats.

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            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

              Originally posted by Snively65 View Post
              Which team is now the cupcake? Nice come-from-behind win by the Cats.
              Wooo!!! Very happy for them!!!! Psyched for Grasso, Maller and TyK (4 points on the night) ...DT hung in there too...
              Last edited by HockeyRef; 10-15-2016, 10:14 PM.
              Here we go 'Cats!!

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              • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                Well done 'Cats on their first win of the season. So much to discuss ... but a great bounce-back (and comeback) win after a bad pair of losses to start the season, and falling behind by two goals early in this one. Would have been quite easy to get discouraged and pack it in, but the boys responded and even when the 3rd period penalties started to go against them, they found a way through the morass and came out the other side with a clutch late game-winner. Kudos to Coach Umile (or you-MEAL, per the Clarkson announcer) for trusting a kid like Nazarian to be taking most of the key late defensive zone draws, too.

                I'll let everyone else fill in the blanks with their opinions and analysis of the game, and I'll be back either tomorrow or early next week with the update on the "Umile's Last Stand" feature. But it's going to be a much more pleasant bus ride back from the North Country after this win, and I'm happy for all concerned that they've now broken the ice after a really scary start to the season.

                Now, on to my legion of admirers who chimed in with their thoughts in between games ...

                Originally posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
                Chuck, Tirone is criticized more than Clark because he's not as good as Clark. Tirone's deficiencies are well documented. Look at Clark compared to him and tell me that he is not better. I really don't want to debate this much because the team rises and falls not so much because whose in goal but what's in front of him.
                Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions, Greg. I personally think you are giving Clark WAY too much credit, and I'm not sure what for? At least with Tirone, we have the second half of the shared Clark/Tirone frosh season (courtesy of CDS) to look back at, and see a kid who did play pretty darned well for an extended period of time - even well into the HE Tourney IIRC? Frankly, I thought Clark deserved better than having a permanent seat on the bench in the second half of that season ... but the results before and after were remarkably better when Tirone was playing.

                Tirone clearly struggled for long stretches of the season last year, no doubt. Clark unfortunately got hurt shortly after it looked like he was going to get his break to get extended action in what likely would at least have been a rotation. Oh well. And this weekend, he got another shot at it and let in six, leaving the door open for Tirone's return ... and DT took the opportunity (again) with a strong performance, and I'd say one of the main reasons UNH won was Tirone's play in the 3rd period when UNH was down two skaters.

                I've seen some posters say that Clark "fills the net better" 'cuz he's bigger, and that's true. But I don't see the same skill and/or agility with Clark as I've seen with Tirone when he's on his game. If we saw THAT Tirone more often, I don't think we'd be having this debate. The back-up goalie is sometimes the fan favorite *just because* ... just as it can be with the back-up quarterback.

                I'm not saying Clark is trash OR Tirone is All-Hockey East caliber, nor am I saying Clark should never play again. But the guy who sees these kids every day clearly thinks one gives him a better chance, and I tend to agree.

                Originally posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
                It really is mind boggling how far UNH has fallen in such a short time. But I have seen it before, in the eighties. UNH made the eight team NCAA tournament in 1983 and three years later they won just five games. It is eerie how the end-of-career fortunes of Charlie Holt and Dick Umile are so similar. You take a disengaged coach who trusts his assistants to bring in the players and, when they don't, he doesn't have the gumption to call them on it. This is what you wind up with. From that dismal five win season it took four years for the team to reach .500 again. And to reach that level it took a new recruiting philosophy and a new coaching philosophy. Will it happen again? Thoughts?
                I've been drawing the Holt-Umile parallel for several years now, dating back to my infamous "Open Letter" thread. To Umile's *credit* - and to be clear, I think *credit* is probably too positive a word - the fallback in the program during his tenure has been more measured and gradual, whereas with Coach Holt (as you've pointed out), it was quick and traumatic. I think it's safe to say that I'm in the same camp as those who think Umile has overstayed (and under-applied), and should not have been allowed to do so. I'm also increasingly pessimistic about the current (unique) succession plan - which also is overly drawn out IMHO. I'm late to that parade (I think 'Watcher was driving that bus well before myself) but as the last year-plus has played out, it's hard not to question it. I do think it would be a HUGE mistake for Coach Souza to just assume he'll walk into the head job in a year and a half regardless of what the team does on and off (recruiting) the ice.

                Originally posted by Dan View Post
                Darius - I think when boiled down the complaints revolved around less talented and less deserving players on the ice in place of better options in the seats. Seems, unless there is a suspension, we're right on schedule...

                Greg is right on about the goalies - one is just better. Though he certainly didn't run with his opportunity which, based on precedent, may end up as an excuse to give Tirone a long leash starting tonight...

                EJ - don't bother, Chuck simply hates talent. I think deep down this is secretly his favorite era of UNH hockey. An entire team of hard working, every man kids. Except for that showboating #16, amirite Chuck?! Here's to Salvaggio potting eight goals and cracking Chuck's top-ten UNH forwards of all-time...
                Dan, Dan, Dan ... OK I'll give you the same chance to tell me what you've seen to *prove* Clark is "just better". Again - I'm not ripping Clark, and I don't disagree that he should have a bigger role than he's had the last season-and-a-half. But has he ever shown the same in goal at any time as Tirone showed two Springs ago? That would be NO. Might he show us someday? I sure hope he does - that's win-win for the program. I'd love to say Umile made a mistake in getting Tirone a few months early and burning a year of his eligibility ... but I don't remember anyone advancing that argument too often or too forcefully when UNH was uncharacteristically blowing through teams left right and center down the stretch in Spring '15. It's looking like that might turn out to be the high water mark for this program at least for the next couple of/few seasons. Other errors were made before and since that's cost UNH ... but Tirone was/is not one of them.

                Now onto your other *point* ... I do NOT "hate" talent. My point is that talent is not the full package, and if you have talent without the heart and motor, you are cheating a lot of people (but mostly yourself) who are counting on you - coaches and teammates FAR more than us fans, BTW. You're still sore that my take on the now-departed Andrew Poturalski wasn't more sympathetic, but I stand behind what I posted then. I have all the time in the world for Kelleher, who is an equally talented four year player who has my full respect when he's fully applied himself (and there were times late last season where I think he'd honestly admit his head was not where it needed to be). Your timing on the swipe at Salvaggio is interesting though seeing that his two-way play late in the game won it for UNH.

                Finally, I'm going to venture here only once and for the limited purpose of putting the "talent" issue to bed from my perspective - and you do not have to agree. But over the last 15 years I've coached several future D-1 athletes (past and current) and a larger wave of D-3's, up to and including interaction with the recruiting process - as limited as that might be below D-1. I get an opportunity to see a lot of players, and maybe your experience in your sport is different than mine ... but when you see what makes a kid tick up close and personal, there are tons of talented kids who aren't as good as they (or those close to them) think they are. There's a common term used for those players, which I'm not going to repeat here ... but they are best avoided, and when I've avoided them and seen them in other settings in the future, I've left comfortable in the sense that I made the right decision probably 90% of the time. So I'm not pulling this out of my ... behind.

                Originally posted by e.cat View Post
                I once accused Chuck of being more verbose than a Philadelphia lawyer back in the day (remember that Chuck?).Some things never change!

                My question for Chuck is; You seem to have written off BvR after one game. Isn't that a rush to judgement?
                I do remember that, e.cat. It's all good, and I'm comfortable with the fair give-and-take on these boards. Once upon a time I was wrong about a certain UNH Football coach too, but I think you'll at least concede that if someone makes a convincing argument, I have no issue admitting when I'm wrong. It happens once or twice a decade, I figure.

                On the BvR thing ... I think all I've said 3 games into his UNH career is that I really haven't seen much from him yet. Two PP assists in the UNB exhibition game wowed some folks, but even strength then and since (including tonight) I don't think he matches up with what we've seen so far from many of the other frosh forwards. But TvR struggled early in his career too, and look how that worked out. I'm going to be patient, but for a kid with some size on him, I really haven't seen him putting that to much use yet, and skills-wise I'm not wowed either.

                Patience, EJ ... your time is coming soon enough.
                Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                Montreal Expos Forever ...

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                • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                  Originally posted by E.J. Smith View Post
                  I really wish you hadn't responded, I'd love to let this go, but you know...
                  ... yeah, I know - same here. But we're into it, so we might as well continue ... keep the folks entertained.

                  Originally posted by E.J. Smith View Post
                  You do realize he was 20, 21, 22 when he played in Philly, right? And put up what I guess only I'd consider pretty good numbers for a guy that age, including a 20 goal season and more than respectable playoff numbers. Honestly, if you have a problem with his production playing in the NHL at that age, I think you might be trying a little too hard to make your case.
                  First, I want to congratulate your boy JvR for a nice goal tonight against the B's. Maybe this will be his year? Noticed he's skating 2nd line this year, so you're right about that one too (so far). Only 9+ years to go then. Maybe Babcock and the Leafs can get Jumbo Joe out of SJ to get your boy up to that elusive 40 goal plateau you think he's destined for?

                  Pretty good numbers, sure. Overall #2 pick in the draft numbers? If he'd built consistently or steadily on that into a substantially better level, then we're good. You know ... like that other overall #2 pick the B's made a year or two after Philly drafted JvR? The guy who really HAS become a steady 30+ goals/70+ points NHL star, with pretty decent +/- too? Maybe you're confusing the two? Or it's down to JvR's playing at a young age, unlucky health issues, weak surrounding cast, biorhythms being off, etc.??

                  I'll let you off the hook by saying JvR simply wasn't worthy of a #2 overall draft selection. He's not the first, and won't be the last. I think you've already agreed in principle (see below). Good for JvR money wise ... but Philly bailed on him just like the B's bailed on you-know-who. With you-know-who, I think we all know he was just a bad fit for the organization (OR the organization should've been more patient). With JvR and Philly, the best you can say is that Philly wanted to reunite the Schenn brothers REALLY badly. Or more likely, they saw what they needed to see, and decided to move on.

                  Originally posted by E.J. Smith View Post
                  You're right your Honor, I stand humbly corrected. He followed up that 30-31-61 season with a measly 27-29-56. The yawning statistical chasm between those two seasons is mind boggling. How could I ever have considered them more or less the same thing? Sometimes I forget the historical responsibilities we have to accuracy when posting here on USCHO. Decades hence when scholars are pouring over these threads in the Library of Congress I'd hate to think I led them astray...
                  Don't. Ever. Change. This is your magic, you've always done it better than everyone else. Bravo sir!!

                  ... but unfortunately you thought you had to go for the big finish, and gave me this gift of an opening ...

                  Originally posted by E.J. Smith View Post
                  Did you really just base a point off the Flyers front office's ability to evaluate talent? Seriously?

                  Seriously? Chuck, you're better than that. That one was too easy.
                  That would be the same Flyers' front office that selected JvR as overall #2 in the draft, correct?

                  I'm 99% sure the GM when they drafted him in '07 was the same as when they traded him in '12 (Holmgren)?

                  Only difference I can see is that by 2012, the Flyers' head coach was Peter Laviolette (guess not a big JvR fan)?

                  So again, I guess you have a point here if you follow the logic as outlined below:

                  (1) Philly (Holmgren et als) nailed it and got it right when they picked JvR #2 overall in 2007;
                  (2) Philly (Holmgren et als 5 yrs. on, add'l insight) bailed out on JvR early after seeing him up close for 3 years; and
                  (3) Therefore, Philly's talent evaluators got fleeced in the JvR for Schenn deal by Toronto's talent evaluators;
                  * you know - that historically bad Toronto organization that couldn't surround JvR with more talent *

                  If Philly couldn't evaluate talent in 2012 ... what makes you think the same guy was better at his job in 2007?

                  And if Toronto's front office has been so bad (true) ... are we to conclude their JvR deal was a rare good one?

                  Sorry EJ, you can't have it both ways - in either scenario. But time is on your side, so let's wait & see ...
                  Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                  Montreal Expos Forever ...

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
                    Wooo!!! Very happy for them!!!! Psyched for Grasso, Maller and TyK (4 points on the night) ...DT hung in there too...
                    Good win for the Cats for sure on a tough road trip. Impressive Grasso performance. Clutch TyK performance. Should help the collective psyche!
                    GO BLUE/GO UNH

                    COLLEGE HOCKEY RULES

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                    • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                      This thread really does have some entertainment value.

                      Curious... who was in net for the big win?
                      'Eavesdropped the BC forum in USCHO. A range of intellects over there. Mostly gentlemen, but a couple of coarse imbeciles' - academic_index, a Brown fan

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                      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                        Originally posted by FiveHole12 View Post
                        This thread really does have some entertainment value.

                        Curious... who was in net for the big win?
                        GP Minutes GA Saves Shots Save% GAA Record
                        Daniel Tirone 2 117:12 7 45 52 .865 3.58 1-1-0
                        Adam Clark 1 59:44 6 34 40 .850 6.03 0-1-0

                        CC (Colorado College or Cup Cake?) up next. 'cats have Friday night off, CC plays BC at Conte.
                        I will not be out cheered in my own building.

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                        • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                          Originally posted by Scott View Post
                          Wow...who'd a thunk that Maller would score the 'Cats first 5-on-5 goal of the season??
                          His first UNH career goal, if someone did not already mention that?

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                          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                            Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
                            Well done 'Cats on their first win of the season. So much to discuss ... but a great bounce-back (and comeback) win after a bad pair of losses to start the season, and falling behind by two goals early in this one. Would have been quite easy to get discouraged and pack it in, but the boys responded and even when the 3rd period penalties started to go against them, they found a way through the morass and came out the other side with a clutch late game-winner. Kudos to Coach Umile (or you-MEAL, per the Clarkson announcer) for trusting a kid like Nazarian to be taking most of the key late defensive zone draws, too.
                            A former UNH president also introduced DU by that pronunciation at a post-Buffalo 2003 event at the Whitt.

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                            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

                              Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
                              ... yeah, I know - same here. But we're into it, so we might as well continue ... keep the folks entertained.
                              ...
                              Sorry EJ, you can't have it both ways - in either scenario. But time is on your side, so let's wait & see ...
                              Pertaining to this purported "opening"...

                              I don't know if this helps you or me but I have to start by saying the 07 draft wasn't exactly a classic. After Kane, the top 10 isn't exactly a who's who of future hall of famers.

                              As a side note, how great to be reminded that the Bruins passed on P.K. Subban not once but twice in that draft, for Zach Hamill and Tommy Cross...

                              I was surprised the Flyers took JVR at 2. I think most people figured at the time that they were playing the local NJ kid angle.

                              That said, JVR was in the top 5 of every scouting list in the world for that draft. Taking him at 2 was more or less just following the consensus of the hockey world. Trading him 3 years later was all the Flyers.

                              Another example off how they historically tear themselves down completely of their own accord through bad trades, bad contracts, bad coaches. The Flyers are one of the 3 teams in the league that continually let their history and "culture" sabotage their present. Montreal does it with their obsession with French-Canadian players and coaches and Philly and Boston do it with their obsession with "toughness", and how a player today would have fit in with their teams in the '70s. "He's not a Bruins type playah. All he can do is skate and score, friggin hit someone." I can't think of another franchise in the NHL that let's their past get in the way of their present like those 3 nutcases do.
                              I went home with a waitress the way I always do
                              How was I to know she was with the russians, too?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by E.J. Smith View Post
                                Pertaining to this purported "opening"...

                                I don't know if this helps you or me but I have to start by saying the 07 draft wasn't exactly a classic. After Kane, the top 10 isn't exactly a who's who of future hall of famers.

                                As a side note, how great to be reminded that the Bruins passed on P.K. Subban not once but twice in that draft, for Zach Hamill and Tommy Cross...

                                I was surprised the Flyers took JVR at 2. I think most people figured at the time that they were playing the local NJ kid angle.

                                That said, JVR was in the top 5 of every scouting list in the world for that draft. Taking him at 2 was more or less just following the consensus of the hockey world. Trading him 3 years later was all the Flyers.

                                Another example off how they historically tear themselves down completely of their own accord through bad trades, bad contracts, bad coaches. The Flyers are one of the 3 teams in the league that continually let their history and "culture" sabotage their present. Montreal does it with their obsession with French-Canadian players and coaches and Philly and Boston do it with their obsession with "toughness", and how a player today would have fit in with their teams in the '70s. "He's not a Bruins type playah. All he can do is skate and score, friggin hit someone." I can't think of another franchise in the NHL that let's their past get in the way of their present like those 3 nutcases do.
                                JvR has a new number (25) as his old (21) was retired...FWIW dept
                                Here we go 'Cats!!

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