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Most D-1 Coaches opposed to 4 on 4 OT rule change.

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  • #16
    Re: Most D-1 Coaches opposed to 4 on 4 OT rule change.

    Originally posted by davyd83 View Post
    If hockey was played 4x4 regularly, it wouldn't be a gimmick. When you change the rules of the game, it's a gimmick. It's no different than saying the goalie has to play without a stick for OT. What's really ridiculous is 3x3 OT. Decide the game the way you play the game. This is like baseball removing an outfielder in extra innings or making 3 balls a walk or giving the batter 4 strikes.
    The shootout is more ridiculous than 3 on 3, and that is playing a part in conference standings already.

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    • #17
      Re: Most D-1 Coaches opposed to 4 on 4 OT rule change.

      The shootout is and always has been the worst solution to breaking ties. Coaches don't like 4X4 because it removes a little of their control. But it isn't quite the chaos on ice that 3X3 is, which they hate even more. The average college coach is even more of a control freak than a pro coach, which is why they have been so vocal in opposition to anything other than 5X5.

      It was posted by one of you earlier that the purpose of an overtime is to break a tie. I like the simplicity in this statement. If we can't live with ties, we need some system to produce a winner. I think the only solution is to play until you have one, and by play I mean play real hockey. Since no one will tolerate the likely 2 or 3 games each team would play every season that goes 2, 3 or more overtime periods, that will never happen. So just live with ties.

      If you REALLY want to get rid of ties, increase scoring. Fewer games went to overtime 40 years ago. Far fewer. Why? Because the more scoring in a game, the less chance you will play 60 minutes and stay tied. But nothing tried in hockey in the last generation has stopped the decrease in goals for any sustained amount of time. The only thing that hasn't been tried that doesn't alter the fundamentals of the game (like playing entire games 4X4 or enlarging the net) is to make the goalie gear smaller. If they made the gear resemble what was worn in the 1970s or 80s, scoring would increase and the increase would likely be sustained. I don't know why the world of hockey can not see this.

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      • #18
        Re: Most D-1 Coaches opposed to 4 on 4 OT rule change.

        Are players taught to score goals or prevent goals? It seems to me that players at all levels are taught the latter.
        CCT '77 & '78
        4 kids
        5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
        1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

        ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
        - Benjamin Franklin

        Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

        I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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        • #19
          Re: Most D-1 Coaches opposed to 4 on 4 OT rule change.

          Originally posted by davyd83 View Post
          ...Decide the game the way you play the game...
          +1. And play an additional five or ten minutes if you need to (except playoffs, where you obviously play until someone wins).

          What I don't understand if why some people can't get it through their heads that, on a given night, one team simply isn't better than its opponent despite 60+ minutes of blood, sweat, and tears. When that happens, the only fair outcome is a tie, and a standings point for each team.
          "Through the years, we ever will acclaim........"

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          • #20
            Re: Most D-1 Coaches opposed to 4 on 4 OT rule change.

            Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
            If you REALLY want to get rid of ties, increase scoring. Fewer games went to overtime 40 years ago. Far fewer. Why? Because the more scoring in a game, the less chance you will play 60 minutes and stay tied. But nothing tried in hockey in the last generation has stopped the decrease in goals for any sustained amount of time. The only thing that hasn't been tried that doesn't alter the fundamentals of the game (like playing entire games 4X4 or enlarging the net) is to make the goalie gear smaller. If they made the gear resemble what was worn in the 1970s or 80s, scoring would increase and the increase would likely be sustained. I don't know why the world of hockey can not see this.
            Studies show a goalie needs roughly 1500 - 2000 game exposures for an injury. Most of those injuries are more related to body contact vs puck contact. Though the injury surveillance system is not as specific as needed for goalies it would seem smaller leg pads, blocker and glove would be the ticket to an increase in scoring, yet keep the injury rate the same. Of course this could be seen as logical doesn't mean it is and who knows what the hockey powers that be think. Example increase scoring because you play 3x3, 4x4 etc during OT. HA

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Split-N View Post
              +1. And play an additional five or ten minutes if you need to (except playoffs, where you obviously play until someone wins).

              What I don't understand if why some people can't get it through their heads that, on a given night, one team simply isn't better than its opponent despite 60+ minutes of blood, sweat, and tears. When that happens, the only fair outcome is a tie, and a standings point for each team.
              You're making it sound like they are proposing continuous 20 minute overtimes. I personally have no problem with ties but I would support 4 on 4 ot with the idea that if you lose a 4 on 4 ot game, it doesn't hurt you as much as a regulation loss.

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              • #22
                Re: Most D-1 Coaches opposed to 4 on 4 OT rule change.

                Originally posted by giwan View Post
                Studies show a goalie needs roughly 1500 - 2000 game exposures for an injury. Most of those injuries are more related to body contact vs puck contact. Though the injury surveillance system is not as specific as needed for goalies it would seem smaller leg pads, blocker and glove would be the ticket to an increase in scoring, yet keep the injury rate the same. Of course this could be seen as logical doesn't mean it is and who knows what the hockey powers that be think. Example increase scoring because you play 3x3, 4x4 etc during OT. HA
                Bingo. The goalies safety equipment, such as a helmet, all of the padding underneath the uniform and the leg pads, is there to prevent injury. The blocker, catching glove and great big stick, as well as the ability to stop play by covering the puck without generally violating the rules, exist to prevent goals. I'm pretty sure we could come up with gear that makes a goalie look more like Ken Dryden (an updated and safer helmet is an exception) but still offer modern day protection. I'd be willing to start with the leg gear and torso protection and leave the sticks and gloves alone. See what that does.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Patman View Post
                  I'm for trying a bit to break the tie... What I don't want to see is a gimmick to do it
                  I'm with you. I'd much rather have a tie than a game decided by a dam shootout. I like the 4 on 4 overtime but do it for 8 minutes. Still a tie so be it.
                  Fly Eagles Fly!!!

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                  • #24
                    Re: Most D-1 Coaches opposed to 4 on 4 OT rule change.

                    Originally posted by icehawk View Post
                    I'm with you. I'd much rather have a tie than a game decided by a dam shootout. I like the 4 on 4 overtime but do it for 8 minutes. Still a tie so be it.
                    There is no doubt shoot-outs are fun to watch but they shouldn't decide a game. Hockey is a team sport and shoot-outs, well, aren't.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Most D-1 Coaches opposed to 4 on 4 OT rule change.

                      Originally posted by willythekid View Post
                      There is no doubt shoot-outs are fun to watch but they shouldn't decide a game. Hockey is a team sport and shoot-outs, well, aren't.
                      Some definitely see the shootout as fun to watch but I am not one who does. I think they're tremendously boring actually, unless the skater possesses world class skills. Something most college players do not.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Most D-1 Coaches opposed to 4 on 4 OT rule change.

                        Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                        You're making it sound like they are proposing continuous 20 minute overtimes....
                        I can't see how you could possibly draw that conclusion when my exact words were, "...Play another five or ten minutes if you need to, (except playoffs..."), where 20-min OTs are already played until there's a winner. Getting back to regular season play, I don't see what's so inherently wrong with the final result being a tie with each team getting a standings point if one team isn't better than the other after 60 minutes of regulation plus a five- or ten-minute OT. As someone said earlier in the thread, "Decide the game the way you play the game."

                        If the apparent decrease in scoring is the source of all this angst, I'd suggest that the proximate cause is oversized goalie equipment, and not the number of players on the ice.
                        Last edited by Split-N; 07-10-2016, 03:38 PM.
                        "Through the years, we ever will acclaim........"

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                        • #27
                          Re: Most D-1 Coaches opposed to 4 on 4 OT rule change.

                          Originally posted by davyd83 View Post
                          If hockey was played 4x4 regularly, it wouldn't be a gimmick. When you change the rules of the game, it's a gimmick. It's no different than saying the goalie has to play without a stick for OT. What's really ridiculous is 3x3 OT. Decide the game the way you play the game. This is like baseball removing an outfielder in extra innings or making 3 balls a walk or giving the batter 4 strikes.
                          That would certainly open up the ice for power plays. Coaching PK becomes essential. I'd also go to 3x3 in OT if the 4x4 were to be adopted in regulation. Of course, this would also shorten rosters somewhat as you wouldn't necessarily need a fourth line or six D. You could alter your roster game by game to take advantage of certain teams strengths and weaknesses by playing three forwards and one D on certain shifts. In game coaching becomes even more important. My fear though is that college hockey starts to resemble a video game.
                          Last edited by Skate79; 07-10-2016, 10:56 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Most D-1 Coaches opposed to 4 on 4 OT rule change.

                            There's no way they are doing this to increase scoring, otherwise we'd be talking 4 on 4 all the time. 4 on 4 just in OT is a clear mission to have a winner. Now, as i said, i don't really have a problem with ties and i hate shootouts. But i would support 4 on 4 overtime. I'm not pining for it but i wouldn't mind it if it happens. 4 on 4 play comes up all the time during the season when a team takes a penalty to negate a PP etc. It really shouldn't be that big of a deal. What are coaches so afraid of? Every team would be in the same boat.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Most D-1 Coaches opposed to 4 on 4 OT rule change.

                              The NCAA has always had overtime: through the 1936-37 season overtime consisted of a 10-minute overtime and if still tied a second 10-minute overtime. Starting in 1937-38 overtime was reduced to a single 10-minute overtime and starting with the 1949-50 season a single 10-minute sudden death overtime period was played. It was changed to a 5 minute overtime starting with the 1989-90 season, falling in line with the NHL's 5 minute overtime.

                              If I recall correctly at the time it was stated that 70% of all overtime games that had a winner were decided in the first 5 minutes, so shortening of the period would not change the outcome of many games. I previously posted limited overtime statistics in this thread. I don't have 1988-89 or 1989-90 season stats, but between 1984-85 and 1998-99 the number of tie games tripled and the percentage of tie games doubled.

                              I believe that shortening the length of the overtime period played a part in that. However, I don't think increasing overtime periods to 10 minutes again will appreciably decrease the number of tie games.

                              Sean
                              Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
                              Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                                The NCAA has always had overtime: through the 1936-37 season overtime consisted of a 10-minute overtime and if still tied a second 10-minute overtime. Starting in 1937-38 overtime was reduced to a single 10-minute overtime and starting with the 1949-50 season a single 10-minute sudden death overtime period was played. It was changed to a 5 minute overtime starting with the 1989-90 season, falling in line with the NHL's 5 minute overtime.

                                If I recall correctly at the time it was stated that 70% of all overtime games that had a winner were decided in the first 5 minutes, so shortening of the period would not change the outcome of many games. I previously posted limited overtime statistics in this thread. I don't have 1988-89 or 1989-90 season stats, but between 1984-85 and 1998-99 the number of tie games tripled and the percentage of tie games doubled.

                                I believe that shortening the length of the overtime period played a part in that. However, I don't think increasing overtime periods to 10 minutes again will appreciably decrease the number of tie games.

                                Sean
                                In the 5 min OT, you can play 2 lines. With a 10 minute OT, you have to go deeper into the depth chart which could result in mis matches.
                                CCT '77 & '78
                                4 kids
                                5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                                1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                                ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                                - Benjamin Franklin

                                Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                                I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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