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  • #91
    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Has BU student attendance really dropped all that much from the Walter Brown Arena days? Back then the students were mostly in section 8 and the portion of section 7 that the band did not occupy. I imagine that is a lot fewer seats than the combination of 117,118,119 and 108. So a smaller student section felt more full but are there really less students attending?

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    • #92
      Re: Average Men's Attendance

      Originally posted by ericredaxe View Post
      Has BU student attendance really dropped all that much from the Walter Brown Arena days?
      Well that's a good point (and also opens up a BIG can of worms) and brings up a couple of questions: 1) Did the school "use" the success of the hockey program to justify building a "mid-sized" arena so they could capitalize on all of the outside "events" (concerts, shows, etc.)? 2) Did they know that there would be enough initial interest and excitement to "push through" the construction but also realized that ultimately that type of interest/attendance was unsustainable? I'm sure that there has been enough of a revenue stream from "mid-sized" events to justify the cost. The question is, how does this affect the hockey program? Personally, I would rather have the excitement level and enthusiasm of a place like Walter Brown as opposed to a half-full (or less) Agganis. Just look at basketball. There's a reason they choose to stay at "The Roof." Can you imagine the unmitigated disaster it would be for basketball to have 300 fans showing up in a 6000 seat arena (even WITH the ends "blocked off")?

      Is it all about winning? Maybe today it is...with so many options to choose from apparently people prefer to associate themselves with "winners" rather than loyalty or love of the sport. To go back to the basketball analogy, look at the Patriot League Championship vs Stony Brook when the place was completely packed and going beserk when John Holland led the Terriers to an overtime win to qualify for the NCAAs.

      So is this where we're at? It's all about being "seen" at the "hip" places now for this generation? They jump from place to place wherever the "hot" place is? If that's true, sports are going to be in big trouble, because they depend upon a consistent revenue stream, not attendance based upon a "whim."

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      • #93
        Re: Average Men's Attendance

        Student attendance can be cyclical depending on which winter team sport is doing better. At Yale, if the basketball team is doing well, the hockey student section suffers, as well as the meager band having to play BB before hockey.
        YALE HOCKEY
        2013 National Champions

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        • #94
          Re: Average Men's Attendance

          Originally posted by LTsatch View Post
          Student attendance can be cyclical depending on which winter team sport is doing better. At Yale, if the basketball team is doing well, the hockey student section suffers, as well as the meager band having to play BB before hockey.
          Yes, but from the tone of this thread it sounds like student attendance is down almost everywhere. So that wouldn't necessarily correlate with how well a team is doing, since ALL teams in ALL sports aren't doing poorly.

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          • #95
            Re: Average Men's Attendance

            Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
            I don't completely disagree with you, but think it is a dangerous way of thinking. There is always something else going on and I can't imagine Halloween discouraged thousands of people from going. I really think 10 or 20 years ago fans of other teams would have gone to get a look at Denver. They're that good. Hopefully this is a wakeup call to those in charge and changes are made.
            I don't think students -or fans in general, really- come for the opponent, unless that team is a rival. For Mankato back in the "old" WCHA days, Denver didn't draw any better than any other conference opponent, even when they were the defending national champs. The Gophers would pack them in (Our students grew up on Gopher sports, and for most of the students the Gophers are either their second favorite team or their least favorite team), and so would NoDak, although a lot of that was visiting NoDak fans somehow ending up with student tickets. But other than that, the visiting team made no difference, regardless of how good they were.

            Most students aren't really there for the high quality hockey. The other parts of the atmosphere are why they come. That includes the home team winning, of course, but you also have to look at ways to make it enticing for the students to always show up. I don't have a lot of good ideas on that, but I know "This team coming to town is really good!" isn't a big draw for students. And that's probably a good thing, because if it was important, how do you sell the students on the weeks when a not really good team is coming to town?

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            • #96
              Re: Average Men's Attendance

              Among many factors driving the drops in physical attendance is the fact that today’s undergrads are the FANG (Facebook/Amazon/Netflix/Google) generation (and don’t forget Xbox and PlayStation). They tend to be ambivalent toward team sports and generally don’t have the attention spans needed to sit through 2+ hour games. And it’s not just the undergrads.

              In an attempt to bring some mathematical perspective to this discussion, I went back and looked at the box scores (which include attendance) for every team that plays in an arena with at least 2,000 seats for each of the past two weekends. It’s impractical to list every single game so I’ve broken down what I found into these categories:

              --Win and They Will Come (programs drawing at, close to, or even over capacity): North Dakota, Denver, Michigan, Northern Michigan, Western Michigan, *Wisconsin, Penn State, and Clarkson (*Wisconsin is not close to capacity but is averaging 8K+ in a 15K+ arena)
              --Bloom is Off the Rose (Sellouts of the past now down to ~60% (or less) of capacity): Michigan State, Miami, Maine
              --In the Middle: All others (except Brown). Most running between 35 and 65 percent of capacity
              --Why Even Bother? (Program where apparently, nobody notices): Brown—only 553 souls at its opener

              It’s a brave new world in sports marketing at both the college and pro levels. And not just in hockey.
              Last edited by Split-N; 10-30-2017, 12:08 PM.
              "Through the years, we ever will acclaim........"

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              • #97
                Re: Average Men's Attendance

                Originally posted by Split-N View Post
                Among many factors driving the drops in physical attendance is the fact that today’s undergrads are the FANG (Facebook/Amazon/Netflix/Google) generation (and don’t forget Xbox and PlayStation). They tend to be ambivalent toward team sports and generally don’t have the attention spans needed to sit through 2+ hour games. And it’s not just the undergrads.

                In an attempt to bring some mathematical perspective to this discussion, I went back and looked at the box scores (which include attendance) for every team that plays in an arena with at least 2,000 seats for each of the past two weekends. It’s impractical to list every single game so I’ve broken down what I found into these categories:

                --Win and They Will Come (programs drawing at, close to, or even over capacity): North Dakota, Denver, Michigan, Northern Michigan, Western Michigan, *Wisconsin, Penn State, and Clarkson (*Wisconsin is not close to capacity but is averaging 8K+ in a 15K+ arena)
                --Bloom is Off the Rose (Sellouts of the past now down to ~60% (or less) of capacity): Michigan State, Miami, Maine
                --In the Middle: All others (except Brown). Most running between 35 and 65 percent of capacity
                --Why Even Bother? (Program where apparently, nobody notices): Brown—only 553 souls at its opener

                It’s a brave new world in sports marketing at both the college and pro levels. And not just in hockey.
                I think its more than just students. There are a lot of people who are content to watch netflix and play on their phone at home. Those numbers are pretty sobering. I saw a pic on twitter last night at Harvard's opener and it looked completely empty.
                Originally posted by BobbyBrady
                Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

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                • #98
                  Re: Average Men's Attendance

                  Originally posted by purpleinnebraska View Post
                  I don't think students -or fans in general, really- come for the opponent, unless that team is a rival. For Mankato back in the "old" WCHA days, Denver didn't draw any better than any other conference opponent, even when they were the defending national champs. The Gophers would pack them in (Our students grew up on Gopher sports, and for most of the students the Gophers are either their second favorite team or their least favorite team), and so would NoDak, although a lot of that was visiting NoDak fans somehow ending up with student tickets. But other than that, the visiting team made no difference, regardless of how good they were.

                  Most students aren't really there for the high quality hockey. The other parts of the atmosphere are why they come. That includes the home team winning, of course, but you also have to look at ways to make it enticing for the students to always show up. I don't have a lot of good ideas on that, but I know "This team coming to town is really good!" isn't a big draw for students. And that's probably a good thing, because if it was important, how do you sell the students on the weeks when a not really good team is coming to town?
                  I agree with you for the most part. I think there was a day though when if you had a team that was as dominant as Denver is ATM people(not really talking about students) would have wanted to go see them. Those days have obviously come and gone.
                  Originally posted by BobbyBrady
                  Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

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                  • #99
                    Re: Average Men's Attendance

                    Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
                    I think its more than just students. There are a lot of people who are content to watch netflix and play on their phone at home. Those numbers are pretty sobering. I saw a pic on twitter last night at Harvard's opener and it looked completely empty.
                    Right you are and that's why I said in the original post that it's not just undergrads. I singled out Brown for its 3-figure attendance but could easily have added to that category St Lawrence (~1,500), Bowling Green (<2,000) and Harvard (1,661). Harvard is especially discouraging given that it is ranked #3, returns the core of its FF team, is the defending Beanpot champ, and has a kid who is well worth going out of your way to see in Ryan Donato,
                    "Through the years, we ever will acclaim........"

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                    • Re: Average Men's Attendance

                      Originally posted by Split-N View Post
                      Right you are and that's why I said in the original post that it's not just undergrads. I singled out Brown for its 3-figure attendance but could easily have added to that category St Lawrence (~1,500), Bowling Green (<2,000) and Harvard (1,661). Harvard is especially discouraging given that it is ranked #3, returns the core of its FF team, is the defending Beanpot champ, and has a kid who is well worth going out of your way to see in Ryan Donato,
                      The Ohio State/Penn State football game had an impact on attendance at the BG game on Sat (we Ohioans loves us some Buckeye football). While I believe this particular game is an outlier, all the points made in this discussion are valid.

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                      • Re: Average Men's Attendance

                        Originally posted by Split-N View Post
                        Right you are and that's why I said in the original post that it's not just undergrads. I singled out Brown for its 3-figure attendance but could easily have added to that category St Lawrence (~1,500), Bowling Green (<2,000) and Harvard (1,661). Harvard is especially discouraging given that it is ranked #3, returns the core of its FF team, is the defending Beanpot champ, and has a kid who is well worth going out of your way to see in Ryan Donato,
                        Has there ever been interest in Harvard hockey?
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                        • Re: Average Men's Attendance

                          Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post
                          Has there ever been interest in Harvard hockey?
                          There seemed to be a pretty good crowd there when Oliver Barrett IV was playing in front of Jenny Cavalleri

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                          • Originally posted by Split-N View Post
                            I singled out Brown for its 3-figure attendance but could easily have added to that category St Lawrence (~1,500), Bowling Green (<2,000) and Harvard (1,661).
                            FWIW, St. Lawrence had 2100 and 2750 (roughly) for their opening weekend (Michigan and Penn St). Maybe "bigger names" led to bigger draws for a crowd, maybe a not great start led to lesser crowds for the games you figured into your investigation.

                            The other factor is in recent years, the SLU fans have brought up that the attendance figures don't seem to match the eye test at times. Not saying that plays a part here, as the PC and UML games (that you referenced) didn't look crowded on the stream, but the info is only as accurate as the entry allows it to be.

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                            • Re: Average Men's Attendance

                              Originally posted by Split-N View Post
                              I singled out Brown for its 3-figure attendance
                              This is the result of two decades of gross negligence by the administration and back-to-back seasons with single digit win totals. Attendance has been a problem at Brown for quite a long time, but we've reached an even darker, deeper abyss than ever before. If the team starts winning (ha!), there will be a noticeable difference in both student and local interest.

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                              • Originally posted by TalonsUpPuckDown View Post
                                The Ohio State/Penn State football game had an impact on attendance at the BG game on Sat (we Ohioans loves us some Buckeye football). While I believe this particular game is an outlier, all the points made in this discussion are valid.
                                Halloween also had an impact. Wooster Street (main campus road) was packed with slutty Halloween costumes and dudes looking to score. We normally see maybe 1 or 2 people on that street after immediately after games. Saturday we only drive halfway through campus before turning south and saw 50-75 students heading to parties. Can't even imagine what downtown looked like.

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