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  • Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Originally posted by Bale View Post
    It seems like a bit of a cop out for those schools in a large metro area. I get there are more options, but there are also more people for each of those options to pull from. For example, if you consider that the Gophers current average attendance is 8283 (yes, I know that's tickets counted not seats occupied, but that's the only consistent state we have to go on for all teams nationally. That's roughly 0.25% of the population of the MSP metro area. Compare that to UND which has a average attendance of 11,171 (or 10.9% of the population). Or Mankato which is at 4,484 (4.4% of the population). Generally speaking, the amount of options available are comparable with the level of population. I understand that options may have something to do with it, but it seems like that's a convenient excuse for MN.
    How is that a cop out? If there’s one restaurant in town, it’s going to be packed. If there’s a thousand, maybe not so much.

    Small towns like Grand Forks and Mankato that have absolutely nothing to compete with for entertainment dollars are going to be much more packed. Doubly so in states like North Dakota where there are no professional sports within six hours of their population centers.

    Why does Nebraska football continue to sell out despite being absolutely horse ****? Because they don’t compete with anything for money.

    Competition, winning %, ticket prices. These are the three primary factors, in no particular order. High cost, playing poorly, and high competition all work against the gophers attendance.
    Code:
    As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
    College Hockey 6       College Football 0
    BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
    Originally posted by SanTropez
    May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
    Originally posted by bigblue_dl
    I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
    Originally posted by Kepler
    When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
    He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

    Comment


    • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
      It’s more complicated than that. Obviously. You have to look at the choices fans have relative to the population.

      The twin cities has every imaginable sports team for a market. All four big pro teams; pro soccer; D1 football, basketball, women’s basketball, women’s volleyball, men’s hockey; the highest theaters per capita outside of New York City. The most James Beard nominations in the Midwest outside of Chicago. A robust high school hockey community maybe only rivaled by Texas football and Indiana basketball. All while only being a fraction the size the other markets who have anything remotely similar. NYC, Boston, LA, Dallas/FW, Houston, Chicago.

      How do you evaluate men’s attendance with record without looking at how the entertainment economy has evolved in that market? Almost impossible.


      All of that said, I would be moderately shocked to find there isn’t a medium to strong correlation between winning percent vs attendance when grouped by completion with other entertainment options. Minnesota used to be one of the crowns in college football. We haven’t won **** since the Vikings came to town and sucked every dollar out of football spending.

      ETA: Another thing that might be interesting is factors like distance to average opponent. Length of time in a conference. Cost of tickets.
      You have a fair point with the Vikings maybe being one contributor to the downfall of the Gopher football program. The rest sounds like something you quoted from the chamber of commerce and have little actual effect. “ The most James Beard nominations in the Midwest outside of Chicago” —is there a city bigger than MSP in the midwest that makes this award a surprise? Maybe at one point Detroit was bigger, but not now. At least people with disposable income

      I wouldn’t doubt the Gopher season ticket waiting list likely peaked when the Stars left, but the Wild did not steal all the attention at least not right away. and the severe drop is definitely an outlier to the trend. Compare to Boston—or Denver. AFAIK none of the programs in those cities are suffering attendance woes of MN and it’s definitely not due to a lack of options. I can’t even articulate how laughable the idea is that hockey attendance is down because everyone turned to theatre... that would have to assume that all sports (Vikings, Twins, Lynx etc..) attendance would all be down due to the metro turning so... “liberal”... and then some teams leave town until equilibrium is achieved again.
      There’s going to be a big squeeze on enrollment in less established fall-back univeraities like the SCSU’s of the nation, and the cultural shift with technology and social media is going to continue hurting athletic revenue across the nation, but Minnesota should not be negatively hurt any more than anywhere else. What killed the program was clearly the ticket donation rate hike in combination with conference realignment. Awful combination. I don’t think they’ll ever fully recover even doing away with the mandatory donations
      It’s definitely related to distance between rivals. In MN you may have a friend who went to UW, or Iowa, but not sprinkled throughout like UND/Mankato/Duluth/SCSU. And trash talk between friends is half the reason people watch
      Last edited by UMD21; 12-24-2019, 07:15 PM.
      I wanna go fast!

      Comment


      • Re: Average Men's Attendance

        Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
        It’s more complicated than that. Obviously. You have to look at the choices fans have relative to the population.

        The twin cities has every imaginable sports team for a market. All four big pro teams; pro soccer; D1 football, basketball, women’s basketball, women’s volleyball, men’s hockey; the highest theaters per capita outside of New York City. The most James Beard nominations in the Midwest outside of Chicago. A robust high school hockey community maybe only rivaled by Texas football and Indiana basketball. All while only being a fraction the size the other markets who have anything remotely similar. NYC, Boston, LA, Dallas/FW, Houston, Chicago.

        How do you evaluate men’s attendance with record without looking at how the entertainment economy has evolved in that market? Almost impossible.


        All of that said, I would be moderately shocked to find there isn’t a medium to strong correlation between winning percent vs attendance when grouped by completion with other entertainment options. Minnesota used to be one of the crowns in college football. We haven’t won **** since the Vikings came to town and sucked every dollar out of football spending.

        ETA: Another thing that might be interesting is factors like distance to average opponent. Length of time in a conference. Cost of tickets.
        As I said, home winning percentage could be a contributing factor, just one of several. The cost of tickets, traffic, free or low cost streaming are some of the other factors that have been previously mentioned here or in the BU thread. Other entertainment options are also a factor for teams in metro areas (here in the Boston area teams regularly change the time of games when a Patriots playoff game ends up scheduled at the same time) as you mention. As for the size of the Minneapolis market, you compare it ti the top five markets in the country and Boston (which is 10th) and make it seem much smaller than it actually is. It is the 16th largest overall in the U.S. and is 74% the size of Boston, 52% the size of Houston and 48% the size of Dallas/Fort Worth. Against the top three it is 38% the size of Chicago, 27% the size of Los Angles and 18% the size of New York. There are also a number of smaller markets that have have similar sports options as the twin cities.

        Since I already had each team's seasonal home records since 2004 in a workbook and their average attendance figures since 2001 in another workbook it wasn't too much work put the information together. I should have that completed shortly.

        As for distance to opponents, there are 9 other DI hockey teams within 40 miles of BU, 5 of them in Hockey East. So while attendance may be slightly improved by visiting fans for a few games, overall the DI fanbase in the greater Boston area is very fractured compared to most other DI teams, like Minnesota. As an example, on 8 November of this year BC hosted UConn (5,291), BU hosted PC (2,837), UML hosted Maine (4,199) and Merrimack hosted NU (2,014) for a total of 14,341 fans watching a Hockey East game within 23 miles of each other. Harvard was hosting Princeton in front of another 1,633 fans just a mile-and-a-half from BU and Holy Cross hosted Sacred Heart in front of 1,052 fans just under 40 miles away.

        Sean
        Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
        Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

        BU Hockey Games
        BU Hockey highlights and extras
        NCAA Hockey Financials
        Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
        I need a kidney; looking for a donor

        Comment


        • Re: Average Men's Attendance

          Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
          The twin cities has every imaginable sports team for a market. All four big pro teams; pro soccer; D1 football, basketball, women’s basketball, women’s volleyball, men’s hockey; the highest theaters per capita outside of New York City. The most James Beard nominations in the Midwest outside of Chicago. A robust high school hockey community maybe only rivaled by Texas football and Indiana basketball. All while only being a fraction the size the other markets who have anything remotely similar. NYC, Boston, LA, Dallas/FW, Houston, Chicago.
          I hear what you are saying, but almost all of these options were also competing against the Gophers back when the hockey attendance was much higher. Plus some of them are not mutually exclusive (e.g. going out to eat before/after Gophers game).

          Comment


          • Re: Average Men's Attendance

            Originally posted by UMD21 View Post
            You have a fair point with the Vikings maybe being one contributor to the downfall of the Gopher football program. The rest sounds like something you quoted from the chamber of commerce and have little actual effect. “ The most James Beard nominations in the Midwest outside of Chicago” —is there a city bigger than MSP in the midwest that makes this award a surprise? Maybe at one point Detroit was bigger, but not now. At least people with disposable income

            I wouldn’t doubt the Gopher season ticket waiting list likely peaked when the Stars left, but the Wild did not steal all the attention at least not right away. and the severe drop is definitely an outlier to the trend. Compare to Boston—or Denver. AFAIK none of the programs in those cities are suffering attendance woes of MN and it’s definitely not due to a lack of options. I can’t even articulate how laughable the idea is that hockey attendance is down because everyone turned to theatre... that would have to assume that all sports (Vikings, Twins, Lynx etc..) attendance would all be down due to the metro turning so... “liberal”... and then some teams leave town until equilibrium is achieved again.
            There’s going to be a big squeeze on enrollment in less established fall-back univeraities like the SCSU’s of the nation, and the cultural shift with technology and social media is going to continue hurting athletic revenue across the nation, but Minnesota should not be negatively hurt any more than anywhere else. What killed the program was clearly the ticket donation rate hike in combination with conference realignment. Awful combination. I don’t think they’ll ever fully recover even doing away with the mandatory donations
            It’s definitely related to distance between rivals. In MN you may have a friend who went to UW, or Iowa, but not sprinkled throughout like UND/Mankato/Duluth/SCSU. And trash talk between friends is half the reason people watch
            The beard awards comment was to point out the restaurant scene here is also quite competitive.
            Code:
            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
            Originally posted by SanTropez
            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
            Originally posted by Kepler
            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

            Comment


            • Re: Average Men's Attendance

              Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
              As I said, home winning percentage could be a contributing factor, just one of several. The cost of tickets, traffic, free or low cost streaming are some of the other factors that have been previously mentioned here or in the BU thread. Other entertainment options are also a factor for teams in metro areas (here in the Boston area teams regularly change the time of games when a Patriots playoff game ends up scheduled at the same time) as you mention. As for the size of the Minneapolis market, you compare it ti the top five markets in the country and Boston (which is 10th) and make it seem much smaller than it actually is. It is the 16th largest overall in the U.S. and is 74% the size of Boston, 52% the size of Houston and 48% the size of Dallas/Fort Worth. Against the top three it is 38% the size of Chicago, 27% the size of Los Angles and 18% the size of New York. There are also a number of smaller markets that have have similar sports options as the twin cities.

              Since I already had each team's seasonal home records since 2004 in a workbook and their average attendance figures since 2001 in another workbook it wasn't too much work put the information together. I should have that completed shortly.

              As for distance to opponents, there are 9 other DI hockey teams within 40 miles of BU, 5 of them in Hockey East. So while attendance may be slightly improved by visiting fans for a few games, overall the DI fanbase in the greater Boston area is very fractured compared to most other DI teams, like Minnesota. As an example, on 8 November of this year BC hosted UConn (5,291), BU hosted PC (2,837), UML hosted Maine (4,199) and Merrimack hosted NU (2,014) for a total of 14,341 fans watching a Hockey East game within 23 miles of each other. Harvard was hosting Princeton in front of another 1,633 fans just a mile-and-a-half from BU and Holy Cross hosted Sacred Heart in front of 1,052 fans just under 40 miles away.

              Sean
              There are almost no markets with the Minnesota options near that size. All five pro sports and a power five school? With college hockey becoming even more of a niche sport.

              Also, if you’re using tv markets, that’s a bad comparison. The twin cities market somehow includes Benton, Yellow Medicine, and Mille Lacs counties (among other absurdities)? No way. These are not people who are going to travel an hour plus to watch games. These people are not being competed for.

              If you’re talking about the statistical areas, you’ll find similar oddly included areas that might make sense for census statistics but don’t paint a very good picture of what the sports market is. You’re competing for people within something like 30-45 minutes away.

              If you’re referring to urban population, then Minnesota is only about half the size of Boston.

              With all of that said, almost everyone I’ve talked to at the games also mention youth hockey as a major contributor to lower attendances. The demands for time commitments by the teams has ramped up significantly over the last decade. Traveling, practices, and games adds up. And for a state that sets attendance records for high school hockey tournaments, that’s a big competitor.

              Among other people it’s often “I had to decide between tickets to the gophers and team XYZ. I dropped the gophers. Just couldn’t afford them.” The cost of tickets at Minnesota dwarfs nearly every other program. To get into the building was $750+ for a season. Most of the tickets had at least $200 tacked onto that for donations.

              Plus the abandonment of the WCHA and local rivals in favor of non-traditional teams like OSU and PSU. This is what I was getting at with proximity to other schools. Visiting fans has almost never played a major role, it’s always been fans enjoying seeing other Minnesota schools come in, the Sioux, etc.

              Now that the well has been poisoned and the ticket list has evaporated, it’s no longer a hot ticket. Once that demand dies, it takes years to rebuild. Maybe never as the changing demographics take hold. Most of the season tickets that are still sold have likely been in families for decades. They’ve made it a point to hold those tickets. When they went to over $1,500 for a pair, or god forbid you want to bring your family at $3k a year, people just couldn’t afford them anymore. Then they decided to jack the prices of single ticket games. If a family wanted to see the Hawks series last year they would have had to shell out something like $70-90 a ticket, face.

              Regardless, the administration has done everything in their power to price people out of tickets, destroy the in-arena experience, force people out of seats they had since the arena was built so people who donated more could take them, and then they had to change conferences. Poor on ice performance has hurt the most. Combine that with changing demographics and millennials attending less sports in person and you’ve got no reason to go to games.
              Code:
              As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
              College Hockey 6       College Football 0
              BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
              Originally posted by SanTropez
              May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
              Originally posted by bigblue_dl
              I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
              Originally posted by Kepler
              When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
              He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

              Comment


              • Re: Average Men's Attendance

                Originally posted by DavidNardolillo View Post
                I hear what you are saying, but almost all of these options were also competing against the Gophers back when the hockey attendance was much higher. Plus some of them are not mutually exclusive (e.g. going out to eat before/after Gophers game).
                You’re not wrong. But I think there are still several factors. And again, most consequential has been the ****ty play.

                But your last point is interesting. Minnesota’s campus has changed significantly. I wonder how much of that has contributed. Our group is down to basically two restaurants we like to go to down on campus. And one is going away in the next few years for another yuppie high rise and generic restaurant supplied by Sysco.

                My point in the post just above this is that the demand we used to have was built over decades of success and tradition. These were people who have had tickets in their family that predate the Twins, Vikings, Wild, and Timberwolves. They knew teams like Michigan Tech, Denver, CC, North Dakota. Old, old rivalries. People wanted these tickets because they taught to want them by attending games with their parents and families. Older fans taught younger fans the importance of the rivalries.

                Anyways, what I’m getting at is that this loyalty took decades to earn through winning and tradition. The administration has torched both of those and set fire to that loyalty. That loyalty drove demand and it’s going to take decades to build that back.

                Winning and getting a new generation of fans used to teams like Penn State, Michigan State, and Ohio State.
                Code:
                As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                Originally posted by SanTropez
                May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                Originally posted by Kepler
                When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                Comment


                • Hockey East Attendance

                  Hockey East Attendance



                  I started BU's attendance with the opening of Agganis Arena, which means only the second half of the 2004-05 season is included in this chart. This is a slight correlation between home winning percentage and attendance, although attendance didn't increase for the 2008-09 NCAA championship season, despite an excellent home record. Attendance did increase for the 2014-15 season, but that was more likely due to Jack Eichel, as despite the even better record the following season attendance dropped again. Attendance this season is off quite a bit despite a decent home record. Agganis Arena is 60% larger than Walter Brown Arena and it appears that while BU was able to fill most of those seats for several seasons they weren't able to keep them and they are now back to early to mid-nineties attendance. With just 7 home games left this season it is unlikely their average for this season will change very much.



                  BC's attendance is interesting, especially for the 2007-08 NCAA championship season, in which the had a losing home record, but still had good attendance, and again for the 2009-10 NCAA championship , in which they had an excellnet home record, but had a drop in attendance (title fatigue?). Attendance rebounded the following season and remained healthy for several more seasons, before beginning a decline that lasted until this season. For the most part that attendance decline was also mirrored by declining home records, although still excellent when compared to most other teams. With 2/3 thirds (10) of their home games still to be played their average for this season can still change significantly.



                  UConn's attendance has obviously been affected by their move from Atlantic Hockey to Hockey East in 2014-15. That said, their attendance since their first season in the league has dropped almost in half, despite their home record basically remaining about 0.500. The lack of immediate success, the luster of joining Hockey East wearing off and having home games in Hartford and not on campus are all likely reasons for the decline in attendance.



                  UMass's attendance has also generally mirrored their home record, the last their seasons very closely.



                  UMass-Lowell's attendance has also generally mirrored their home record, except for the 2005-06 and 2006-07 seasons when it remained basically steady despite the their home record becoming worse.



                  Maine' attendance has generally mirrored their home record, with the 2012-13 and 2013-14 seasons being exceptions, until this season. This season their home record has been excellent (5-0-1) and ticket prices were even reduced for most seats, but so far many fans have stayed away. With 10 home games left that could change after such a good first semester, however, their appears to be a number of fans who want to see a coaching change and many of them may stay away for that reason. Of course, losing a few, or more, home games will also impact their home record.



                  Merrimack's attendance has also generally mirrored their home record, although their home record has fluctuated more season to season than their attendance has.



                  New Hampshire's attendance also has generally mirrored their home record, excepting this season and last season, when their home record has improved far more then their attendance has. With 11 home games remaining, that, like with Maine, can change quite a bit during the upcoming second semester. The same also goes for their home record.



                  As has been mentioned by another poster, Northeastern has one of the worst average attendance figures the league (currently 10th) despite an excellent home and good overall record. That was not always the case as from 2004-05 through 2014-15 (with the exception of 2012-13) their attendance mirrored their home record closely. However, since then their attendance has declined somewhat despite their home record improving vastly. With 8 home games already having been played and just 6 remaining it may be hard for their attendance figure to improve much, although losing a few of the remaing home games will also impact their home record.



                  Providence's attendance strongly mirrors their home record, especially since the 2009-10 season, until this season. With only 5 home games remaining it is more likely their home record will change more than their average attendance for the season.



                  Vermont's attendance at best only weakly mirrors their home record, until the last season and this season, when a drop in attendance has been noticeable. That their attendance remained pretty stable, despite their fluctuating home record, several below 0.500, can in part be attributed to the lack of other sports teams that compete with the team. In fact, Vermont's men's basketball team is really the only competition they have for the sports dollar in Burlington. Like Maine, there appears to be a number of fans who want to see a coaching change, but it remains to be seen if they will stay away until that occurs. With 11 home games remaining both their attendance and home record can change quite a lot during the second semester.

                  Sean
                  Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
                  Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

                  BU Hockey Games
                  BU Hockey highlights and extras
                  NCAA Hockey Financials
                  Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
                  I need a kidney; looking for a donor

                  Comment


                  • Re: Average Men's Attendance

                    Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                    You’re not wrong. But I think there are still several factors. And again, most consequential has been the ****ty play.

                    But your last point is interesting. Minnesota’s campus has changed significantly. I wonder how much of that has contributed. Our group is down to basically two restaurants we like to go to down on campus. And one is going away in the next few years for another yuppie high rise and generic restaurant supplied by Sysco.

                    My point in the post just above this is that the demand we used to have was built over decades of success and tradition. These were people who have had tickets in their family that predate the Twins, Vikings, Wild, and Timberwolves. They knew teams like Michigan Tech, Denver, CC, North Dakota. Old, old rivalries. People wanted these tickets because they taught to want them by attending games with their parents and families. Older fans taught younger fans the importance of the rivalries.

                    Anyways, what I’m getting at is that this loyalty took decades to earn through winning and tradition. The administration has torched both of those and set fire to that loyalty. That loyalty drove demand and it’s going to take decades to build that back.

                    Winning and getting a new generation of fans used to teams like Penn State, Michigan State, and Ohio State.
                    I agree with you. On the restaurants, I was a big fan of the Big 10 post-game sandwich, but depending on who came to the games with me, we also headed to some of the fancier downtown restaurants that were open late.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Hockey East Attendance

                      Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                      Hockey East Attendance



                      I started BU's attendance with the opening of Agganis Arena, which means only the second half of the 2004-05 season is included in this chart. This is a slight correlation between home winning percentage and attendance, although attendance didn't increase for the 2008-09 NCAA championship season, despite an excellent home record. Attendance did increase for the 2014-15 season, but that was more likely due to Jack Eichel, as despite the even better record the following season attendance dropped again. Attendance this season is off quite a bit despite a decent home record. Agganis Arena is 60% larger than Walter Brown Arena and it appears that while BU was able to fill most of those seats for several seasons they weren't able to keep them and they are now back to early to mid-nineties attendance. With just 7 home games left this season it is unlikely their average for this season will change very much.



                      BC's attendance is interesting, especially for the 2007-08 NCAA championship season, in which the had a losing home record, but still had good attendance, and again for the 2009-10 NCAA championship , in which they had an excellnet home record, but had a drop in attendance (title fatigue?). Attendance rebounded the following season and remained healthy for several more seasons, before beginning a decline that lasted until this season. For the most part that attendance decline was also mirrored by declining home records, although still excellent when compared to most other teams. With 2/3 thirds (10) of their home games still to be played their average for this season can still change significantly.



                      UConn's attendance has obviously been affected by their move from Atlantic Hockey to Hockey East in 2014-15. That said, their attendance since their first season in the league has dropped almost in half, despite their home record basically remaining about 0.500. The lack of immediate success, the luster of joining Hockey East wearing off and having home games in Hartford and not on campus are all likely reasons for the decline in attendance.



                      UMass's attendance has also generally mirrored their home record, the last their seasons very closely.



                      UMass-Lowell's attendance has also generally mirrored their home record, except for the 2005-06 and 2006-07 seasons when it remained basically steady despite the their home record becoming worse.



                      Maine' attendance has generally mirrored their home record, with the 2012-13 and 2013-14 seasons being exceptions, until this season. This season their home record has been excellent (5-0-1) and ticket prices were even reduced for most seats, but so far many fans have stayed away. With 10 home games left that could change after such a good first semester, however, their appears to be a number of fans who want to see a coaching change and many of them may stay away for that reason. Of course, losing a few, or more, home games will also impact their home record.



                      Merrimack's attendance has also generally mirrored their home record, although their home record has fluctuated more season to season than their attendance has.



                      New Hampshire's attendance also has generally mirrored their home record, excepting this season and last season, when their home record has improved far more then their attendance has. With 11 home games remaining, that, like with Maine, can change quite a bit during the upcoming second semester. The same also goes for their home record.



                      As has been mentioned by another poster, Northeastern has one of the worst average attendance figures the league (currently 10th) despite an excellent home and good overall record. That was not always the case as from 2004-05 through 2014-15 (with the exception of 2012-13) their attendance mirrored their home record closely. However, since then their attendance has declined somewhat despite their home record improving vastly. With 8 home games already having been played and just 6 remaining it may be hard for their attendance figure to improve much, although losing a few of the remaing home games will also impact their home record.



                      Providence's attendance strongly mirrors their home record, especially since the 2009-10 season, until this season. With only 5 home games remaining it is more likely their home record will change more than their average attendance for the season.



                      Vermont's attendance at best only weakly mirrors their home record, until the last season and this season, when a drop in attendance has been noticeable. That their attendance remained pretty stable, despite their fluctuating home record, several below 0.500, can in part be attributed to the lack of other sports teams that compete with the team. In fact, Vermont's men's basketball team is really the only competition they have for the sports dollar in Burlington. Like Maine, there appears to be a number of fans who want to see a coaching change, but it remains to be seen if they will stay away until that occurs. With 11 home games remaining both their attendance and home record can change quite a lot during the second semester.

                      Sean
                      Providence in general has had SO MANY home games this year that it has overloaded the fan base. A couple of the games have been scheduled with men's basketball playing just before them across town. Not an excuse at all just the way they have been scheduling games this year.
                      Yes I am the former member known as Zlax45

                      Comment


                      • Re: Average Men's Attendance

                        Lots of long drawn out posts here with reasons,excuses, and stats for dropping attendance in some cities.

                        In Madison it's all about the team's performance and Big 7 hockey.

                        Big 7 hockey sucks + WI has sucked for a decade = plummeting attendance. Pure and simple. No graphs needed.
                        "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." Vince Lombardi

                        "License to kill gophers by the government of the United Nations. Man; free to kill gophers at will. To kill, you must know your enemy, and in this case, my enemy is a varmint....and a varmint will never quit...ever. They're like Viet Cong...Varmint Cong, so you have to fall back on superior intelligence and superior firepower...and that's all she wrote. Au revoir, gopher." Karl Spackler 1980

                        Comment


                        • Re: Average Men's Attendance

                          Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                          As I said, home winning percentage could be a contributing factor, just one of several. The cost of tickets, traffic, free or low cost streaming are some of the other factors that have been previously mentioned here or in the BU thread. Other entertainment options are also a factor for teams in metro areas (here in the Boston area teams regularly change the time of games when a Patriots playoff game ends up scheduled at the same time) as you mention. As for the size of the Minneapolis market, you compare it ti the top five markets in the country and Boston (which is 10th) and make it seem much smaller than it actually is. It is the 16th largest overall in the U.S. and is 74% the size of Boston, 52% the size of Houston and 48% the size of Dallas/Fort Worth. Against the top three it is 38% the size of Chicago, 27% the size of Los Angles and 18% the size of New York. There are also a number of smaller markets that have have similar sports options as the twin cities.

                          Since I already had each team's seasonal home records since 2004 in a workbook and their average attendance figures since 2001 in another workbook it wasn't too much work put the information together. I should have that completed shortly.

                          As for distance to opponents, there are 9 other DI hockey teams within 40 miles of BU, 5 of them in Hockey East. So while attendance may be slightly improved by visiting fans for a few games, overall the DI fanbase in the greater Boston area is very fractured compared to most other DI teams, like Minnesota. As an example, on 8 November of this year BC hosted UConn (5,291), BU hosted PC (2,837), UML hosted Maine (4,199) and Merrimack hosted NU (2,014) for a total of 14,341 fans watching a Hockey East game within 23 miles of each other. Harvard was hosting Princeton in front of another 1,633 fans just a mile-and-a-half from BU and Holy Cross hosted Sacred Heart in front of 1,052 fans just under 40 miles away.

                          Sean

                          Then the next night, PC hosted BU in front of 2741 (how many fans are going to make the trip to Boston on a Friday night and then go to Providence the next?) Eventually, you have to make decisions on your personal life also and what is too much hockey?
                          Yes I am the former member known as Zlax45

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                          • Originally posted by MadCityRich View Post
                            Lots of long drawn out posts here with reasons,excuses, and stats for dropping attendance in some cities.

                            In Madison it's all about the team's performance and Big 7 hockey.

                            Big 7 hockey sucks + WI has sucked for a decade = plummeting attendance. Pure and simple. No graphs needed.
                            I wasn’t aware UW hockey attendance was hurting. Seems to me you would have been one of the schools hurt the least if not benefitted from B1G conference. Kinda surprised, must be results driven.
                            I wanna go fast!

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                            • NCHC Attendance

                              NCHC Attendance



                              Colorado College's attendance remained relatively stable, as did their home record, until 2012-13. Their final season in the WCHA saw an upswing in attendance, even though their home record dropped to just over 0.500, their worst in 9 seasons. It is possible that many fans made sure to attend games for those WCHA rivals that they would no longer be playing every season. For the first 4 seasons in the NCHC attendance remained strong, if slightly lower than when the team was in the WCHA. However, their home record got progressively worse until the disastrous 2016-17 when they won just 1 home game. That appears to have been a tipping point as attendance dropped off sharply the following two seasons, despite having above 0.500 home records for both. This season attendance as flattened, although their record so far is again below 0.500.



                              Denver has had solid attendance since 2004-05, along with an excellent home record almost every season (only dropping below 0.600 three seasons). Attendance did dip in 2014-15, the second season of the NCHC, despite an improved home record that season, but bounced back in 205-16 as the team had another strong season at home and overall and were a national contender. The national championship season in 2016-17 and solid home records since appear to have had Denver's attendance increase and or hold steady the past three seasons, going against the general trend n college hockey, in a city that has teams from all five major pro sports leagues, as well as a MLL team.



                              Miami's attendance has mirrored their home winning percentage, more closely when they were in the CCHA, but since joining the NCHC and having progressively worse home records since 2014-15 attendance has also dropped and is now at its lowest since Steve Cady Arena opened in 2006. Clearly their move to the NCHC and the end of longtime CCHA rivalries, along with usually being a cellar dweller in the NCHC, has led to a drop in attendance.



                              Minnesota-Duluth's attendance, like that of BU, received a boost with the opening of their new arena. Even with a poor last season in the WCHA and a sub-0.500 first season in the NCHC their attendance remained strong, although it did see a 3 season decline from 2014-15 through 2017-18 before rebounding in 2018-19 as they successfully defended their national championship. BU's new arena bounce wore off after 8 seasons and a lack of on ice success, while UMD's success during their 8th season in their new arena looks to have kept their attendance strong for now. However, halfway through this season both attendance and their home record are lower and it remains to be seen how both do the second half of the season and over the next several seasons.



                              North Dakota's fanbase and attendance is hands down the best among all 60 DI programs. Over the past 19 seasons their average attendance has fluctuated by just 10% between their lowest and highest and is currently off their peak by just 5%. Still, their attendance has very loosely mirrored their home record until the past three seasons. However, it is possible that the decrease has more to do with the change in tax laws that made donations that allowed sports fans to buy tickets to no longer be tax deductible than any other reason.



                              Omaha's attendance vaguely mirrors their home record as it appears that their attendance has been more dependent on which league they have been in. From 2004-05 through 2009-10 they were in the CCHA and had good attendance, with their last in the league being their best as they also had an excellent home record. However, the three seasons they were in the WCHA they had their best attendance, all over 7,000 with the first in 2010-11 having their best home record and attendance. Upon joining the NCHC attendance saw a significant drop and has continued to decline, except for a one season boost they saw with the opening of their new arena in 2015-16. Poor home records in three of the four seasons since haven't helped, but even an excellent home record in 2017-18 only increased attendance slightly.



                              St. Cloud's attendance seems to have little correlation to their home record or what league they have been in. Since the 2010-11 season it has been trending downward, with a slight bump their first season in the NCHC, as well as last season when they went undefeated at home.



                              Western Michigan's attendance closely mirror's their home record while they were in the CCHA from 2004-13. Since joining the NCHC their attendance has not mirrored their home record as well, and in fact has appeared to reflect their home record of the previous season.
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                              • Re: Average Men's Attendance

                                Originally posted by The Zlax45 View Post
                                Providence in general has had SO MANY home games this year that it has overloaded the fan base. A couple of the games have been scheduled with men's basketball playing just before them across town. Not an excuse at all just the way they have been scheduling games this year.
                                PC has 15 scheduled regular season home games this season, the same as last season, but last season they had only played 5 home games before the new year. In past seasons 20 seasons they have played as many as 19 and as few as 14 regular season home games, 15 overall is on the low end (the average is 16). It appears that like BU, PC has a poorly balanced home schedule this season, with 2/3 of the games in the first half and most, 7, in November or early December.

                                Originally posted by The Zlax45 View Post
                                Then the next night, PC hosted BU in front of 2741 (how many fans are going to make the trip to Boston on a Friday night and then go to Providence the next?) Eventually, you have to make decisions on your personal life also and what is too much hockey?
                                We used to go to the back-to-back games for most of the BU men's games, but once they started the women's program we stopped as we started going to the women's home games and trying to make it to a 7 pm game in Providence after a 3 pm game at BU was a bit much, especially with a young child.

                                Sean
                                Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
                                Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

                                BU Hockey Games
                                BU Hockey highlights and extras
                                NCAA Hockey Financials
                                Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
                                I need a kidney; looking for a donor

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