Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

[Jaws]

Re: Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

Agree. And I heard a good idea last week. Have the blue lin be like the goal line in football. If a skate is in the plane of the blue line, the play is on side.

Have we learned nothing from the NHL's offsides challenges? Zapruder film breakdowns of whether a skate might have been in the air or on the ice, with all energy drained out of the building while fans sit around. Fabulous. We're paying 2 linesmen to watch for that. Let them do their jobs

[giwan]

Have we learned nothing from the NHL's offsides challenges? Zapruder film breakdowns of whether a skate might have been in the air or on the ice, with all energy drained out of the building while fans sit around. Fabulous. We're paying 2 linesmen to watch for that. Let them do their jobs

Couldn't agree more. Do not follow the NHL it's not the same game.

[giwan]

I'm not sure what you disagree with. You must support a conference that doesn't have shootouts so it's a little different. All I'm saying is, selfishly:

4 on 4 + 3 on 3 + stupid shootout > 5 on 5 + stupid shootout

because it minimizes the chances of the stupid shootout.

Keep it simple one OT 10 minutes. Then be happy with a tie.

[Bonin21]

Re: Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

Keep it simple one OT 10 minutes. Then be happy with a tie.

Yes most people on here are okay with ties... But the chances of getting them back in the Big Ten or NCHC are not good. So minimizing shootouts should make us happy.

[UML Puck Hawk]

Re: Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

• The Division I Men’s Ice Hockey Ccommittee has indicated that some adjustments would be made to the Ratings Percentage Index criteria to award some credit for a team that loses in the overtime period.

Any of our RPI experts have an idea how they will do this? Honestly this seems bigger than switching to 4 v 4 OT to me.

[Split-N]

Re: Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

I'm not sure what you disagree with. You must support a conference that doesn't have shootouts...

I disagree with any and all things that compromise the legitimacy of the game. Hockey games are meant to be decided by competition between two teams consisting of five skaters and a goaltender, notwithstanding penalties. Anything else is a gimmick. And the shootout IMO is the hockey equivalent of a crime against humanity. If the NHL wants to prostitute itself to gimmickry in the name of entertainment, that doesn't mean the NCAA should do the same.

Why is it so hard to accept the premise that on a given day, one team might not be better than the other and that a tie is the only fair and proper final result?

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

Of course if you really want to get rid of shootouts, get rid of ties. And if you want to get rid of ties, find an actual way to increase scoring. During the early era of Notre Dame hockey (1970/71-1982/83) an average of 4 games went beyond regulation per season. In the more modern era since returning to conference affiliated D1 play, (1992/93-2015/16) they have averaged 6.6 games going more than 60 minutes, a 65% increase. Scoring in the 1970s and 80s was substantially higher than it is today. This season's 10 OT games is a total never exceeded and equaled only once (1999/00) in 37 seasons worth of top level hockey.

I only have limited seasonal results quickly available to me, but here is the overtime information for what I do have. Tie games that did not use overtime are not included.

1975-76
580 games played
65 overtime games (11.2 %)
2 multiple overtime games
17 tie games (2.9 % of all games; 26.1 % of overtime games)
19 games tied after one overtime (3.3 % of all games; 29.2 % of overtime games)

9.828 scoring average, both teams per game
4.914 scoring average, one team
3.272 average margin of victory

1984-85
865 games played
115 overtime games (13.3 %)
4 multiple overtime games
32 tie games (3.7 % of all games; 27.8 % of overtime games)
36 games tied after one overtime (4.2 % of all games; 31.3 % of overtime games)

8.662 scoring average, both teams per game
4.331 scoring average, one team
2.975 average margin of victory

1998-99
996 games played
157 overtime games (15.8 %)
2 multiple overtime games
90 tie games (9.0 % of all games; 57.3 % of overtime games)
92 games tied after one overtime (9.2 % of all games; 58.6 % of overtime games)

6.436 scoring average, both teams per game
3.218 scoring average, one team
2.432 average margin of victory

2013-14
1111 games played
194 overtime games (17.5%)
8 multiple overtime games
113 tie games (10.2 % of all games; 58.3% of overtime games)
121 games tied after one overtime (10.9 % of all games; 62.4 % of overtime games)

5.637 scoring average, both teams per game
2.819 scoring average, one team
2.125 average margin of victory

2014-15
1110 games played
209 overtime games (18.8 %)
9 multiple overtime games
112 tie games (10.1 % of all games; 53.6 % of overtime games)
121 games tied after one overtime (10.9 % of all games; 57.9 % of overtime games)

5.412 scoring average, both teams per game
2.706 scoring average, one team
2.150 average margin of victory

2015-16
1127 games
244 overtime games (21.7 %)
6 multiple overtime games
142 tie games (12.6 % of all games; 58.2 % of overtime games)
148 games tied after one overtime (13.3 % of all games; 60.7 % of overtime games)

5.590 scoring average, both teams per game
2.795 scoring average, one team
2.140 average margin of victory

What can be seen is that the number of overtime games has doubled, while the number of tie games has quadrupled. The number of overtime games is likely a result of better defense and goaltending leading to less scoring, but the increase in tie games is also due in part to reducing the overtime period from 10 to 5 minutes. Also, over the past three seasons average scoring and margin of victory has been pretty consistent, but overtime games have continued to increase. So, something more than just scoring is leading to more overtime games.

Sean

[Bill]

Re: Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

I only have limited seasonal results quickly available to me, but here is the overtime information for what I do have. Tie games that did not use overtime are not included.

1975-76
580 games played
65 overtime games (11.2 %)
2 multiple overtime games
17 tie games (2.9 % of all games; 26.1 % of overtime games)
19 games tied after one overtime (3.3 % of all games; 29.2 % of overtime games)

9.828 scoring average, both teams per game
4.914 scoring average, one team
3.272 average margin of victory

1984-85
865 games played
115 overtime games (13.3 %)
4 multiple overtime games
32 tie games (3.7 % of all games; 27.8 % of overtime games)
36 games tied after one overtime (4.2 % of all games; 31.3 % of overtime games)

8.662 scoring average, both teams per game
4.331 scoring average, one team
2.975 average margin of victory

1998-99
996 games played
157 overtime games (15.8 %)
2 multiple overtime games
90 tie games (9.0 % of all games; 57.3 % of overtime games)
92 games tied after one overtime (9.2 % of all games; 58.6 % of overtime games)

6.436 scoring average, both teams per game
3.218 scoring average, one team
2.432 average margin of victory

2013-14
1111 games played
194 overtime games (17.5%)
8 multiple overtime games
113 tie games (10.2 % of all games; 58.3% of overtime games)
121 games tied after one overtime (10.9 % of all games; 62.4 % of overtime games)

5.637 scoring average, both teams per game
2.819 scoring average, one team
2.125 average margin of victory

2014-15
1110 games played
209 overtime games (18.8 %)
9 multiple overtime games
112 tie games (10.1 % of all games; 53.6 % of overtime games)
121 games tied after one overtime (10.9 % of all games; 57.9 % of overtime games)

5.412 scoring average, both teams per game
2.706 scoring average, one team
2.150 average margin of victory

2015-16
1127 games
244 overtime games (21.7 %)
6 multiple overtime games
142 tie games (12.6 % of all games; 58.2 % of overtime games)
148 games tied after one overtime (13.3 % of all games; 60.7 % of overtime games)

5.590 scoring average, both teams per game
2.795 scoring average, one team
2.140 average margin of victory

What can be seen is that the number of overtime games has doubled, while the number of tie games has quadrupled. The number of overtime games is likely a result of better defense and goaltending leading to less scoring, but the increase in tie games is also due in part to reducing the overtime period from 10 to 5 minutes. Also, over the past three seasons average scoring and margin of victory has been pretty consistent, but overtime games have continued to increase. So, something more than just scoring is leading to more overtime games.

Sean

Goalies have generally become bigger and more athletic in the last decade or two. That plus the huge size of goalie pads (and huge baggy jerseys on some goalies) in the same time frame has definitely made scoring tougher. Defensive systems have generally become much better also. To me, the low hanging fruit solution to increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties is to limit the size of goalie pads and see what impact that has. With the technology we have these days, safety shouldn't be an issue. Personally, I have no problem with ties.

[Buckeye22]

Re: Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

I disagree with any and all things that compromise the legitimacy of the game. Hockey games are meant to be decided by competition between two teams consisting of five skaters and a goaltender, notwithstanding penalties. Anything else is a gimmick. And the shootout IMO is the hockey equivalent of a crime against humanity. If the NHL wants to prostitute itself to gimmickry in the name of entertainment, that doesn't mean the NCAA should do the same.

Why is it so hard to accept the premise that on a given day, one team might not be better than the other and that a tie is the only fair and proper final result?

I completely agree. If you've played to earn a tie, you should get one. You shouldn't have to accept a loss based off of a skills competition.

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

Goalies have generally become bigger and more athletic in the last decade or two. That plus the huge size of goalie pads (and huge baggy jerseys on some goalies) in the same time frame has definitely made scoring tougher. Defensive systems have generally become much better also. To me, the low hanging fruit solution to increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties is to limit the size of goalie pads and see what impact that has. With the technology we have these days, safety shouldn't be an issue. Personally, I have no problem with ties.

The decrease in scoring is like a vicious cycle IMO.

Larger goalie equipment started us down the road. As goal scoring decreased with no real way to reverse the trend (the more net you cover the less chance you have to score, as is the case as the equipment gets bigger and bigger) it becomes even more necessary to keep the other team off the board. So you have "systems" in hockey that are designed only to allow the five skaters on the ice to prevent offense, not generate it. So then you have coaches and clinics dedicated solely to goaltending so the goalies become even more skilled, because without a top flight goaltender your team doesn't just struggle, it sucks mercilessly. When all of that is still not enough to prevent the other team from scoring 3 goals, you have every skater on the ice falling down to block shots (something that did not happen regularly years ago because the safety equipment below the neck wasn't protective enough and even college players did not wear facial protection). Then when 3 goals becomes too high a bar for some teams, players began finding the need to take only "perfect" shots, so as not to waste an offensive possession. So they aim for only the tiniest fraction of the net, the little parts around the upper and lower corners where a puck might sneak past the Michelin Man goalie. Of course many of those shots miss the net entirely (if the happen to make it passed the sprawled body of every single forward on every single team who blocks a shot as his teammates on the bench pound their sticks on the boards in appreciative salute) and carom right out of the attack zone, ending the offensive opportunity anyway. 40 years ago a team did not have to attempt 50 or 60 shots to see 25 reach the net. Now they do. 15 or 20 miss the mark and 10 or 15 are are blocked every single game.

So I say go back to the beginning. Goalie gear should be no larger than needed than to offer sufficient protection to the player. They've got the big glove, the big blocker and the big stick. Plus they can legally cover the puck in the crease. They shouldn't need to wear padding that as the years have gone by have allowed them to effectively cover most of the 6X4 open space of the net without moving. The technology DOES exist for this to happen, for the goalie gear to be much smaller yet off the same safety protection. Make the goalies look proportionally in 2016 like they did in 1980 and watch the increase in scoring. At some point then the focus will become on scoring one more goal than the other guy instead of preventing them from scoring one more than you. That may sound like the same goal but boy oh boy is it not.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

Really, an overtime loss thing? Just end the game after 60 minutes.

[LordofBrewtown]

Re: Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

Goalies have generally become bigger and more athletic in the last decade or two. That plus the huge size of goalie pads (and huge baggy jerseys on some goalies) in the same time frame has definitely made scoring tougher. Defensive systems have generally become much better also. To me, the low hanging fruit solution to increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties is to limit the size of goalie pads and see what impact that has. With the technology we have these days, safety shouldn't be an issue. Personally, I have no problem with ties.

100% agree. Reduce the goalie pads, instruct the officials to actually start enforcing interference/obstruction, and that should improve scoring. I'd prefer they scrap shootouts and OT altogether. If you are tied after 60, it's a tie.

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

100% agree. Reduce the goalie pads, instruct the officials to actually start enforcing interference/obstruction, and that should improve scoring. I'd prefer they scrap shootouts and OT altogether. If you are tied after 60, it's a tie.

Overtime has existed from the start. Maybe we should go back to full overtime periods like they had back then, none of this sudden death crap.

Sean

[Bonin21]

Re: Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

It wasn't sudden death?

[CLS]

Re: Rule's Committee Recommends 4 on 4 OT, RPI to adjust for OT losses

Glad this discussion is coming up in “neutral ice” – that is not because a team I root for just took advantage of/got screwed by one of the rules.

Have we learned nothing from the NHL's offsides challenges? Zapruder film breakdowns of whether a skate might have been in the air or on the ice, with all energy drained out of the building while fans sit around. Fabulous. We're paying 2 linesmen to watch for that. Let them do their jobs

Absolutely. And of course it always happens in a critical situation. The fact that a critical goal might get called back is a bigger deal than a timeout, so coaches are incentivised to challenge it. The last several challenges that I've seen have been very close plays; e.g. was a player's blade an eighth of an inch off the ice or not? Very hard to tell in stop motion, let alone real time. Defenders are not disadvantaged by the lack of a call; they have to play like it's onside. It's not like spending time on whether a goal was scored or not. Something – an offensive player making a great play, a defender or goalie screwing up – had to happen for the goal to get scored.


I'm also not in favor of shootouts, and I don't have problem with ties, but I kind of like 3:3 and 4:4. Six is not a magic number; if I recall correctly, hockey was once played with seven. The fact that players are larger, faster, and have lighter equipment (especially skates) means that five skaters on the ice makes the ice seem cluttered at times, especially in college tournaments and in the NHL playoffs, when players are really playing defense.