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How to improve the Pairwise

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    thanks for taking the extreme and throwing out the idea that the ECAC and WCHA should play more...love your positivity.
    One must look at the whole picture. Sure, Bowling Green to Mercyhurst is a relatively quick trip. But neither Bemidji nor Mankato is a one day bus trip to any AHA or ECAC school, nor is Michigan Tech, nor is NMU (been on a few Marquettr to Erie football trips). Even the Soo to Pittsburgh or Erie is around 11 hours by bus. Yes, there are a handful of doable WCHA/AHA/ECAC bus trips but not many. That's not negativity. That's reality. Tech has done Huntsville by bus. Do you think they want to add a similar amount of bus time to Buffalo?
    "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by billmich88888 View Post
      Through Canada?
      Through Canada is actually longer.
      "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by davyd83 View Post
        Through Canada is actually longer.
        ???
        If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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        • #94
          Re: How to improve the Pairwise

          Originally posted by davyd83 View Post
          Through Canada is actually longer.
          crossing at the Soo........?

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          • #95
            Re: How to improve the Pairwise

            Here's a thought. What does it say about the selection system when you feel the need to tailor schedules to it, rather than schedule based on what is in the best interest of any given team and their fans. For example: Sure, Michigan Tech vs. Merrimack is ok, but are any fans of either really excited about it?

            Seems to me the selection system should be tailored to what will best drive the sport, not the other way 'round.
            Originally posted by WiscTJK
            I'm with Wisko and Tim.
            Originally posted by Timothy A
            Other than Wisko McBadgerton and Badger Bob, who is universally loved by all?

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            • #96
              Re: How to improve the Pairwise

              Originally posted by billmich88888 View Post
              crossing at the Soo........?
              -
              It's about two hours more in pure driving time staying in the States, but add in getting 28-30 people of varying nationalities through customs at the Soo and then again at Johnstown, ONT, or at Port Huron & Johnstown and you have another element to consider.
              "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

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              • #97
                Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                Originally posted by davyd83 View Post
                -
                It's about two hours more in pure driving time staying in the States, but add in getting 28-30 people of varying nationalities through customs at the Soo and then again at Johnstown, ONT, or at Port Huron & Johnstown and you have another element to consider.
                fair enough, excellent point

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                • #98
                  Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                  Originally posted by Wisko McBadgerton View Post
                  Here's a thought. What does it say about the selection system when you feel the need to tailor schedules to it, rather than schedule based on what is in the best interest of any given team and their fans. For example: Sure, Michigan Tech vs. Merrimack is ok, but are any fans of either really excited about it?

                  Seems to me the selection system should be tailored to what will best drive the sport, not the other way 'round.
                  I was actually rather impressed that Lowell scheduled Arizona State to come to town for two games this year, knowing that it would do them absolutely no help w/r/t the Pairwise.

                  Personally, I like seeing my team play any OOC team, and especially one I've never seen them play before. The last couple of seasons, Lowell's hosted Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Quinnipiac, Arizona State, Colorado College, RPI, and AIC. It's been awesome! I kind of wish they wouldn't schedule so many holiday tournaments so there'd be one more non-conference home game to schedule and I could see another team. Even if the team is kinda bad (ASU, AIC, CC) it's cool to see new teams.

                  Anyway, it's the same in every college sport: if you have postseason aspirations, you need to schedule and play high-quality opponents. This is not unique to hockey.

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                  • #99
                    Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                    I do want to point out, even though it might be redundant, that if you used a geometric progression in calculating the QWB you could cut it off at 10 teams and not have a cliff.
                    MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

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                    • Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                      Listening to today's USCHO Live recording. http://www.uscho.com/uscho-live/2016...a-frozen-four/

                      HEA commish Joe Bertagna did a fair amount of bloviating about the selection process, saying that there should basically be more wiggle room to go against the coaches' wishes to have transparency in the selection/seeding process. Basically in favor of a more basketball-like closed-door, smoky boardroom sort of shenanigans... specifically taking into account how a team is playing in the last X number of games to fudge stuff around.

                      Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there really anyone on the boards here who thinks that way?

                      Whatever arguments we might have over the numerical method chosen, I feel like we can all agree that we like the transparency of a purely numerical method.
                      If you want to be a BADGER, just come along with me

                      BRING BACK PAT RICHTER!!!


                      At his graduation ceremony from the U of Minnesota, my cousin got a keychain. When asked what UW gave her for graduation, my sister said, "A degree from a University that matters."

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                      • Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                        Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
                        Listening to today's USCHO Live recording. http://www.uscho.com/uscho-live/2016...a-frozen-four/

                        HEA commish Joe Bertagna did a fair amount of bloviating about the selection process, saying that there should basically be more wiggle room to go against the coaches' wishes to have transparency in the selection/seeding process. Basically in favor of a more basketball-like closed-door, smoky boardroom sort of shenanigans... specifically taking into account how a team is playing in the last X number of games to fudge stuff around.

                        Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there really anyone on the boards here who thinks that way?

                        Whatever arguments we might have over the numerical method chosen, I feel like we can all agree that we like the transparency of a purely numerical method.
                        I would be ok with more fudgability to change swap 8 and 9 or 12 and 13 vs having hard bands (should it be extremely helpful to attendance, avoiding interconference match, etc) but beyond that, I think we all agree that a transparent system is important...
                        Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

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                        • Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
                          Listening to today's USCHO Live recording. http://www.uscho.com/uscho-live/2016...a-frozen-four/

                          HEA commish Joe Bertagna did a fair amount of bloviating about the selection process, saying that there should basically be more wiggle room to go against the coaches' wishes to have transparency in the selection/seeding process. Basically in favor of a more basketball-like closed-door, smoky boardroom sort of shenanigans... specifically taking into account how a team is playing in the last X number of games to fudge stuff around.

                          Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there really anyone on the boards here who thinks that way?

                          Whatever arguments we might have over the numerical method chosen, I feel like we can all agree that we like the transparency of a purely numerical method.
                          Transparency is a big deal. But the method has its difficulties as well... Applying the pairwise to basketball, for instance, would produce results that would give people a lot of pause.

                          In the end, I favor the ultimate transparency of a formulaic driven result. It does remove the drama and I think sports people don't like it because it makes the world too clean and it doesn't work with their own preconceptions.
                          BS UML '04, PhD UConn '09

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                          • Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                            Q: How to improve the Pairwise?

                            A: Don't. Scrap it. Use KRACH.
                            The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                            North Dakota Hockey:

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                            • Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                              I don't see why KRACH means you have to replace the PWR. Just use KRACH instead of RPI.

                              The only complaints that I really have with the current method is that RPI is a more finicky metric.
                              If you want to be a BADGER, just come along with me

                              BRING BACK PAT RICHTER!!!


                              At his graduation ceremony from the U of Minnesota, my cousin got a keychain. When asked what UW gave her for graduation, my sister said, "A degree from a University that matters."

                              Canned music is a pathetic waste of your time.

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                              • Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                                Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
                                I don't see why KRACH means you have to replace the PWR. Just use KRACH instead of RPI.

                                The only complaints that I really have with the current method is that RPI is a more finicky metric.
                                Heck, just add KRACH to the existing criteria. If you do that, you're going to have at least 3 criteria for every team comparison, instead of the 2 criteria for 70% of the comparisons that we have now which results in the RPI being vastly overweighted.

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