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How to improve the Pairwise

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  • #61
    Re: How to improve the Pairwise

    Originally posted by manurespreader View Post
    Right and what I'm saying is, make the slope steeper and in fact why does it have to be linear at all.
    because a human has to choose what it is?
    Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

    Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: How to improve the Pairwise

      Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
      because a human has to choose what it is?
      Well if you used a geometric sequence than you reward beating number 1 a lot and number 2 by a lot less etc. So you end at say 10 with a tiny number and it's still calculable, gets the job done, and makes mookie happy. Kind of like the payoff in a tennis tournament . The winner gets a lot the second guy a good bit but everyone else, not so much. Then you could essentially still end at 20 if you liked with little effect. Except there would be no real advantage to beating number 15.
      MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

      It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: How to improve the Pairwise

        I'd use a KRACH PWR like the RPI fan page does.
        Code:
        As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
        College Hockey 6       College Football 0
        BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
        Originally posted by SanTropez
        May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
        Originally posted by bigblue_dl
        I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
        Originally posted by Kepler
        When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
        He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: How to improve the Pairwise

          Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
          I'd use a KRACH PWR like the RPI fan page does.
          what does krach look like this year?
          a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: How to improve the Pairwise

            Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
            what does krach look like this year?
            http://www.uscho.com/rankings/krach/d-i-men/


            Powers &8^]

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: How to improve the Pairwise

              KRACH
              Rank Team Rating RRWP Win % Rk W-L-T Win % Win Ratio SOS Rk SOS
              1 Quinnipiac 668.6 .8564 1 29-3-7 0.8333 5.000 13 141.8
              2 St. Cloud State 572.9 .8372 3 31-8-1 0.7875 3.706 8 161.1
              3 North Dakota 537.9 .8287 2 30-6-4 0.8000 4.000 15 140.7
              4 Providence 470.4 .8098 4 27-6-4 0.7838 3.625 18 135.5
              5 Boston College 398.7 .7844 5 26-7-5 0.7500 3.000 17 137.5
              6 Denver 389.3 .7806 9 23-9-6 0.6842 2.167 3 183.6
              7 Michigan 296.2 .7334 6 24-7-5 0.7361 2.789 32 109.7
              8 Massachusetts-Lowell 291.8 .7306 7 24-9-5 0.6974 2.304 22 129.7
              9 Harvard 275.4 .7198 12 19-10-4 0.6364 1.750 9 160.1
              10 Yale 270.2 .7162 10 19-8-4 0.6774 2.100 20 131.9
              11 Boston University 259.3 .7083 14 21-12-5 0.6184 1.621 7 162.1
              12 Notre Dame 255.6 .7055 13 19-10-7 0.6250 1.667 10 155.6
              13 Minnesota-Duluth 239.2 .6924 27 18-15-5 0.5395 1.171 2 205.0
              14 Northeastern 222.1 .6775 15 22-13-5 0.6125 1.581 12 142.2
              15 Cornell 194.0 .6493 20 16-11-7 0.5735 1.345 11 145.5
              16 Nebraska-Omaha 181.4 .6350 31 18-17-1 0.5139 1.057 6 171.9
              17 Michigan Tech 171.3 .6225 8 23-9-5 0.6892 2.217 48 79.07

              RPI
              Rank Team RPI Adj RPI QWB QWB Adj RPI W-L-T Win % Win % Rank SOS SOS Rank
              1 Quinnipiac .5904 .5938* .0070 .6008 29-3-7 .8229 1 .5129 17
              2 St. Cloud State .5902 .5929* .0063 .5991 31-8-1 .7822 4 .5262 6
              3 North Dakota .5876 .5883* .0057 .5939 30-6-4 .8010 2 .5165 15
              4 Providence .5762 .5762 .0057 .5819 27-6-4 .7877 3 .5057 30
              5 Boston College .5712 .5712 .0073 .5785 26-7-5 .7473 5 .5125 18
              6 Denver .5706 .5706 .0055 .5761 23-9-6 .6896 8 .5310 3
              7 Michigan .5669 .5672* .0027 .5699 24-7-5 .7314 6 .5121 20
              8 Massachusetts-Lowell .5509 .5518* .0070 .5587 24-9-5 .6917 7 .5040 32
              9 Boston University .5489 .5489 .0095 .5584 21-12-5 .6257 13 .5233 11
              10 Harvard .5519 .5519 .0021 .5540 19-10-4 .6364 12 .5238 10
              11 Yale .5482 .5485* .0030 .5515 19-8-4 .6741 10 .5063 27
              12 Notre Dame .5462 .5462 .0051 .5513 19-10-7 .6124 16 .5242 9
              13 Northeastern .5428 .5428 .0059 .5487 22-13-5 .6193 14 .5173 13
              14 Minnesota-Duluth .5368 .5368 .0071 .5440 18-15-5 .5405 26 .5356 1
              15 Cornell .5312 .5312 .0054 .5366 16-11-7 .5719 20 .5177 12
              16 Michigan Tech .5354 .5354 .0003 .5358 23-9-5 .6892 9 .4842 45
              a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                No, KRACH-PWR. Where you use KRACH instead of RPI in the PWR calculation.
                Code:
                As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                Originally posted by SanTropez
                May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                Originally posted by Kepler
                When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                  this looks to have that quality bonus in, so bu is higher in rpi due to their wins @ qu and hu, plus home wins vs mich & du at home ooc
                  a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                    Rank-rpi unadjusted//Team//Rank*krach
                    1 Quinnipiac 1
                    2 St. Cloud State 2
                    3 North Dakota 3
                    4 Providence 4
                    5 Boston College 5
                    6 Denver 6
                    7 Michigan 7
                    9 Massachusetts-Lowell 8
                    8 Harvard 9
                    11 Yale 10
                    10 Boston University 11
                    12 Notre Dame 12
                    14 Minnesota-Duluth 13
                    13 Northeastern 14
                    16 Cornell 15
                    19 Nebraska-Omaha 16
                    15 Michigan Tech 17
                    21 St. Lawrence 18
                    17 Minnesota 19
                    22 Dartmouth 20
                    27 Miami 21
                    20 Penn State 22
                    23 Minnesota State 23
                    25 Rensselaer 24
                    24 Clarkson 25
                    26 Bowling Green 26
                    30 Union 27
                    18 Robert Morris 28
                    29 Ferris State 29
                    35 Vermont 30
                    31 Ohio State 31
                    32 Bemidji State 32
                    38 Merrimack 33
                    28 Air Force 34
                    34 Northern Michigan 35
                    43 Western Michigan 36
                    33 Holy Cross 37
                    39 New Hampshire 38
                    42 Wisconsin 39
                    47 Michigan State 40
                    36 RIT 41
                    41 Colgate 42
                    37 Mercyhurst 43
                    44 Lake Superior 44
                    45 Connecticut 45
                    50 Brown 46
                    49 Massachusetts 47
                    53 Maine 48
                    40 Army 49
                    51 Alaska-Anchorage 50
                    52 Alaska 51
                    55 Colorado College 52
                    46 Bentley 53
                    56 Alabama-Huntsville 54
                    48 Sacred Heart 55
                    54 Canisius 56
                    57 Princeton 57
                    58 Niagara 58
                    59 Arizona State 59
                    60 American International 60
                    a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                      I am all for adding a 4th, or 5th criteria as long as they are the right ones.
                      I am against using a team's record in the last X number of games - games in the first part of the season should count as much as the end.
                      I am against any consideration for missing players/injuries. I know, it sucks…but it's a team sport and every game played adds to your resume.
                      I am also against anything that introduces an arbitrary cutoff or cliff - so no record against Teams under consideration. That introduces double jeopardy anyway (since it's already in the RPI component).
                      For the same reason - get rid of the QWB - it is already in the RPI (double jeopardy), and maybe we can replace in a new 4th or 5th comparison.

                      I think the best criteria to add is something that accounts for Home/Road games. Since conference games are evenly home/road, my first inclination is to just use non-conference road wins as the criteria. The problem is the discrepancy in number of road games by conference/unequal opportunity. I am against using the win pct for those games, as I think its more impressive for someone to go 3-4-1 non-conf on the road than 1-1.

                      Since that is problematic/probably won't fly, I propose separating the RPI into a separate Home RPI and Road RPI (essentially you have 120 teams instead of 60). That should help account for scheduling quality road games, and help account for various levels of home stadium advantage. The only dilemma with this is how to account for neutral site games: not at all, or count in both the home and road RPI (but for half?). I would count in both the home and road RPI. I'd let the NCAA assign any questionable games pre-season/tournament (e.g if The Big10 tourny happened to be in Milwaukee, it should be designated a home game for Wisconsin and away game for Michigan if playing each other).

                      Might be a little tougher to go back and look at prior years, as you'd have to track/assign home and away teams; but, I'd love to see this comparison.

                      I would also alter the RPI formula to put more emphasis on winning (50-20-30), and am for changing the tie-breaker to H2H, followed by Common Opponents, then overall RPI.

                      So the 4 comparisons would be: Home RPI, Away RPI, H2H, Common Opponents, (Overall RPI only used as 3rd tie breaker if needed, or potentially added as a 5th comparison)

                      So, there's 1 option if you have time on your hands.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                        Originally posted by LordofBrewtown View Post
                        Since that is problematic/probably won't fly, I propose separating the RPI into a separate Home RPI and Road RPI (essentially you have 120 teams instead of 60). That should help account for scheduling quality road games, and help account for various levels of home stadium advantage..
                        mookie would be on board for a split like this. much like democrats and tax incentives () i think the ncaa has to wield its stick to push inclusive scheduling.

                        mookie is quite satisfied with bu for in our boys ooc games we visiting union, ylae, quinni, and harvard. for neutral games met nu, bc, & then cornell at msg. and hosted michigan 2x, denver, bucky, and bentley [ok, last 2 teams blew, but...].

                        other top programs are finally getting out of their home rink as well. even the goofs visited notre dame this year so the days of them playing all their ooc games at home appears to be waning. but it is because of this bonus. if this didn't exist the goofs would continue to invite uconn, merrimack and canisius to the mariucci for the holiday dodge tourney year after year.
                        a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                          I tend to think mookie is right. Though I don't think it's the QWB that's doing it. They are starting to get harder negotiations from teams. They're demanding return trips because they can now. Minnesota isn't in the same bargaining position they used to be in.
                          Code:
                          As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                          College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                          BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                          Originally posted by SanTropez
                          May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                          Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                          I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                          Originally posted by Kepler
                          When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                          He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                            First, I would like to see LordofBrewtown's proposal (home and road rpi calculations) or at least the rpi portion. I think that would be interesting. Because I don't know, does the current RPI calculation exclude the team in question in both the Oper and OOper?

                            Second, I agree with mookie and dxmnkd316. The need to encourage scheduling tougher OOC games and especially road games is important. Like dxmnkd31 said, I'm not sure that the QWB is causing it but I think the system rewarding it is important.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                              Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post

                              Other thoughts? I'd like to gather a few ideas and incorporate them into the last 3 years of the current system and see how it would have changed the field.
                              I'd love to see the results if you split the RPI into the 2 componenets as discussed below...eagerly awaiting as I'm far too lazy to do this myself

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: How to improve the Pairwise

                                Originally posted by LordofBrewtown View Post
                                I'd love to see the results if you split the RPI into the 2 componenets as discussed below...eagerly awaiting as I'm far too lazy to do this myself
                                For all who like splitting RPI into home/road do we keep the weighted game values? How do we deal with neutral sites? I would assume we keep the game weights and count neutral site games as half home half away games?

                                EDIT: How to deal with QWB? Are we removing that completely? Giving QWB in Road RPI to the victories vs the top 20 teams in Home RPI and vice versa?
                                Last edited by Shirtless Guy; 03-24-2016, 10:09 AM.
                                Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                                Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

                                Comment

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