Originally posted by manurespreader
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How to improve the Pairwise
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Re: How to improve the Pairwise
Originally posted by manurespreader View PostWhich is exactly why I proposed lowering the QWB to the top 10 teams, because there really is a lot of parity below the top few teams.Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.
Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton
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Re: How to improve the Pairwise
Originally posted by UML Puck Hawk View PostThen move back to an 8 or 12 team field if you think there's an arbitrary cut line. Then again the past few years the last team in has won, so maybe there's more parity than you thinkMTU: Three time NCAA champions.
It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond
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Re: How to improve the Pairwise
Originally posted by UML Puck Hawk View PostThen move back to an 8 or 12 team field if you think there's an arbitrary cut line. Then again the past few years the last team in has won, so maybe there's more parity than you thinkMichigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.
Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton
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Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View PostI think the point is that awarding a QWB for 1-10 has more value because it is clearer that a team deserves a QWB for beating those teams...maybe the answer is actually to go the other way...going all the way down to 30 with max remaining the same (the old TUC cliff line was anyone above 0.5000 RPI which usually was around 25ish).a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.
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Re: How to improve the Pairwise
Somebody help me. Why does there need to be an arbitrary cutoff line? Is there a statistical reason (not a subjective one) why beating say, number 10 couldn't be worth just a little more than beating number 11, but worth a lot more than beating number 45?
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Re: How to improve the Pairwise
Originally posted by CLS View PostSomebody help me. Why does there need to be an arbitrary cutoff line? Is there a statistical reason (not a subjective one) why beating say, number 10 couldn't be worth just a little more than beating number 11, but worth a lot more than beating number 45?Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.
Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton
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Re: How to improve the Pairwise
Originally posted by CLS View PostSomebody help me. Why does there need to be an arbitrary cutoff line? Is there a statistical reason (not a subjective one) why beating say, number 10 couldn't be worth just a little more than beating number 11, but worth a lot more than beating number 45?
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Originally posted by UML Puck Hawk View PostThen move back to an 8 or 12 team field if you think there's an arbitrary cut line. Then again the past few years the last team in has won, so maybe there's more parity than you think
Tournament would be Weds (2 v 3) games, Thursday (semis) and Saturday (finals).Last edited by joecct; 03-21-2016, 05:12 PM.CCT '77 & '78
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Re: How to improve the Pairwise
Originally posted by goblue78 View PostWe already have that system. It's called RPI. QWB was created to add more than RPI already gave you, without taking away points to losing to bad teams. The idea was to encourage scheduling good teams, since you could add QWB if you beat them, and you had the smallest possible loss in RPI.Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.
Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton
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Re: How to improve the Pairwise
Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View PostJust an FYI, that would not have change the order of teams at all this year...same top 14 same order...15 through 24 would shuffle but the top 14 is unchanged. (assuming the award for beating #11 through #20 would get shifted to #1 through #20...so beating #10 would be worth 0.0025 for a neutral site, etc).Last edited by manurespreader; 03-21-2016, 05:50 PM.MTU: Three time NCAA champions.
It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond
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Re: How to improve the Pairwise
Originally posted by manurespreader View PostNot quite what I was proposing. What I'm saying is, award zero points for beating anyone no. 11 thru infinity. Only award points at the same level as now,( not increased) to 1 -10.
Here is what I calculated for this year:
Code:Rnk QWB aQWB Team 1 0.0500 0.0500 Quinnipiac 2 0.0475 0.0495 St. Cloud State 3 0.0450 0.0471 North Dakota 4 0.0425 0.0406 Providence 5 0.0400 0.0379 Boston College 6 0.0375 0.0377 Denver 7 0.0350 0.0358 Michigan 8 0.0325 0.0277 Harvard 9 0.0300 0.0276 Mass.-Lowell 10 0.0275 0.0261 Boston University 11 0.0250 0.0258 Yale 12 0.0225 0.0246 Notre Dame 13 0.0200 0.0228 Northeastern 14 0.0175 0.0196 Minnesota-Duluth 15 0.0150 0.0189 Michigan Tech 16 0.0125 0.0166 Cornell 17 0.0100 0.0139 Minnesota 18 0.0075 0.0130 Robert Morris 19 0.0050 0.0122 Nebraska-Omaha 20 0.0025 0.0119 Penn State 21 0.0000 0.0117 St. Lawrence 22 0.0000 0.0109 Dartmouth 23 0.0000 0.0100 Minnesota State 24 0.0000 0.0094 Clarkson 25 0.0000 0.0089 Rensselaer 26 0.0000 0.0069 Bowling Green 27 0.0000 0.0065 Miami 28 0.0000 0.0045 Air Force 29 0.0000 0.0037 Ferris State
Last edited by Shirtless Guy; 03-21-2016, 05:58 PM.Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.
Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton
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Re: How to improve the Pairwise
Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Postbut then you are created a TUC cliff, currently beating #10 gets you 0.0275 for a neutral site game. You're proposing 0 for beating #11 which means everyone cares if the top ten changes. I'm saying, we basically base the bonus on how high your RPI is above 0.5000 with a max of 0.0500 (the current max bonus) one thing also to remember is while you get a bonus of 0.0500 for beating #1, your actually final RPI only goes up the sum of all QWBs divided by games played. So if a team had one quality event in their 40 game season prior to selection day, beating #1 under the current system they would get a bonus of 0.0500/40 or 0.00125...MTU: Three time NCAA champions.
It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond
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Re: How to improve the Pairwise
Originally posted by manurespreader View PostWell yes but... in essence there still must be cliff, as the cutoff, whether it is number 11 or 15 or 20 or whatever is somewhere. I'm just saying that you should get some bonus but to what extent and from what result is the question. The top 20 was arbitrary and so will any other number be. I agree that you do deserve an award, but as the umich stats guy says, there are really only 5 or 6 top teams.Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.
Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton
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Re: How to improve the Pairwise
Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Postbut currently you get 0.0025 for #20 and and 0 for #21...that isn't nearly as big a deal. Currently there really isn't a cliff as much as a gentle slope...see my edit to the post you're commenting on...MTU: Three time NCAA champions.
It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond
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