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  • AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

    Yikes!

    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/06817...ore-ice-so-far

    The new WCHA is made up of 10 teams — holdovers, former CCHA members or independent. The league stretches from Alabama and Alaska, and its travel costs have increased an average of 40 percent since realignment.
    The six-figure distributions the old WCHA paid to schools in its heyday — significant to small-time athletic departments — have dried up the last two years because the league's postseason tournaments have lost money or netted no profit. In addition, smaller schools no longer get the extra ticket revenue they counted on when Big Ten teams regularly visited their arenas.
    Would like to know why the new WCHA isn't instituting a one-trip to Alaska limit for schools. If you have to play at both Alaska schools, you do it in a 11 day window instead of making two trips.

    The idea of a "new" CCHA is intriguing, but what happens to Tech and Mankato?

    Again, screw the Big 14 for destroying college hockey.
    CCHA 4 LIFE

  • #2
    Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

    Again, no one made the NCHC members leave or forced ND to go to HE.
    Go Green! Go White! Go State!

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    • #3
      Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

      It's not just WCHA teams that are hurting.

      I don't believe Western and Miami can stay in the NCHC long term and survive financially. They have basically traded every home and home bus ride for airplane flights and hotel rooms.

      I think you will see a league based of Western, Ferris, BGSU and Miami(OH) along with Robert Morris and whatever other Atlantic Hockey school wants to fund the full limit of scholarships.......RIT?? Maybe one of the Buffalo schools? That will get them to six teams to start and an auto-bid. It would be a 1-2 bid conference, but so is the current WCHA.

      Tech and Mankato most likely swallow their pride at being left out and join the NCHC to replace the two eastern most schools. It all makes way more sense financially. What happens to NMU and LSSU?? not sure.....either way they have big travel.

      With the education budget issues in Alaska already, and their poor attendance, its not too far fetched to see one or both of those programs gone from the landscape. How long can they foot the bill for all those visitor trips in??

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

        Originally posted by Dirty Dream No. 2 View Post
        what happens to Tech and Mankato?
        Everyone keeps bringing up travel costs in the WCHA but I don't see how they are really that much worse than the old WCHA. Was the old Final Five a cash cow for the league? Yes. Travel was not cheap in the old WCHA either.

        Changing leagues is not going to cut Tech's travel costs. Give up Alaska and Alabama for two trips to Colorado and another to Omaha? Where is the huge savings? If we assume you have 30 people to travel for a road game and it's $500 per plane ticket, that's $15 less the cost of the usual bus rental. Everything else (meals, hotels, etc) is a constant regardless of destination. So maybe you're spending an extra $15k for a plane vs bus trip once a year for AK. If you can't float another $15k per year, why are you in DI hockey? That's not even as much as the gate take for one home game. You go to AK, you get another home game if you want it - budget problem solved.

        Ryan
        Preserving Michigan Tech's Hockey History
        https://www.johnsonsjerseys.net
        Originally posted by geezer
        Tech has the best of everything, even the best jersey nerd.
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        ...I really enjoyed listening to Ryan Johnson. He sounded intelligent.

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        • #5
          Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

          Originally posted by bravohankins View Post
          Tech and Mankato most likely swallow their pride at being left out and join the NCHC to replace the two eastern most schools. It all makes way more sense financially.
          It'd be Bemidji and Mankato if anything.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JohnsonsJerseys View Post
            Everyone keeps bringing up travel costs in the WCHA but I don't see how they are really that much worse than the old WCHA. Was the old Final Five a cash cow for the league? Yes. Travel was not cheap in the old WCHA either.

            Changing leagues is not going to cut Tech's travel costs. Give up Alaska and Alabama for two trips to Colorado and another to Omaha? Where is the huge savings? If we assume you have 30 people to travel for a road game and it's $500 per plane ticket, that's $15 less the cost of the usual bus rental. Everything else (meals, hotels, etc) is a constant regardless of destination. So maybe you're spending an extra $15k for a plane vs bus trip once a year for AK. If you can't float another $15k per year, why are you in DI hockey? That's not even as much as the gate take for one home game. You go to AK, you get another home game if you want it - budget problem solved.

            Ryan
            the plane tickets to Fairbanks cost over $1000 plus baggage fees from Marquette. I flew separate from the team and on a different airline and my ticket was about $700 plus baggage.
            Last edited by davyd83; 03-13-2016, 01:15 AM.
            "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dirty Dream No. 2 View Post
              Yikes!

              http://bigstory.ap.org/article/06817...ore-ice-so-far



              Would like to know why the new WCHA isn't instituting a one-trip to Alaska limit for schools. If you have to play at both Alaska schools, you do it in a 11 day window instead of making two trips.

              The idea of a "new" CCHA is intriguing, but what happens to Tech and Mankato?

              Again, screw the Big 14 for destroying college hockey.
              If you put a one trip to Alaska per team max out there, then each Alaska school board only host five teams and play only 10 games. As for the 11 day trip, the teams that do it usually do it in conjunction with spring break, semester break, or Thanksgiving break. The Alaska schools also like to make a two weekends trip of their own or two to the lower 48. So you really are limited in the number of chew weekend trips that could be made to Alaska.
              "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

                Originally posted by bravohankins View Post
                It's not just WCHA teams that are hurting.

                I don't believe Western and Miami can stay in the NCHC long term and survive financially. They have basically traded every home and home bus ride for airplane flights and hotel rooms.

                I think you will see a league based of Western, Ferris, BGSU and Miami(OH) along with Robert Morris and whatever other Atlantic Hockey school wants to fund the full limit of scholarships.......RIT?? Maybe one of the Buffalo schools? That will get them to six teams to start and an auto-bid. It would be a 1-2 bid conference, but so is the current WCHA.

                Tech and Mankato most likely swallow their pride at being left out and join the NCHC to replace the two eastern most schools. It all makes way more sense financially. What happens to NMU and LSSU?? not sure.....either way they have big travel.

                With the education budget issues in Alaska already, and their poor attendance, its not too far fetched to see one or both of those programs gone from the landscape. How long can they foot the bill for all those visitor trips in??
                NMU and LSSU were both in the old CCHA, I don't see why they wouldn't be invited to be in a new CCHA.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

                  The most logical thing IMO is Western and Miami go to the WCHA with Mankato and Bemidji go to the NCHC. Then add Robert Morris and Niagara to make it 12 teams with two divisions of 12 teams each with one Alaska school in each division....

                  North Division: LSSU, NMU, MTU, FSU, WMU, UA
                  South Division: BGSU, MU, UAH, RMU, NU, UAA
                  LSSU hockey-3 time NCAA champs 1988, 1992, 1994

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

                    Originally posted by JohnsonsJerseys View Post
                    Everyone keeps bringing up travel costs in the WCHA but I don't see how they are really that much worse than the old WCHA. Was the old Final Five a cash cow for the league? Yes. Travel was not cheap in the old WCHA either.

                    Changing leagues is not going to cut Tech's travel costs. Give up Alaska and Alabama for two trips to Colorado and another to Omaha? Where is the huge savings? If we assume you have 30 people to travel for a road game and it's $500 per plane ticket, that's $15 less the cost of the usual bus rental. Everything else (meals, hotels, etc) is a constant regardless of destination. So maybe you're spending an extra $15k for a plane vs bus trip once a year for AK. If you can't float another $15k per year, why are you in DI hockey? That's not even as much as the gate take for one home game. You go to AK, you get another home game if you want it - budget problem solved.

                    Ryan
                    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My opinion is that you couldn't be more wrong. It is substantially more expensive for 90% of the WCHA members now than it was for 90% of the WCHA members from the old WCHA.

                    For the following, 1 day = 10 hours (the law for 1 bus driver in a day)

                    Bemidji, North Dakota, Duluth, St Cloud, Mankato, Tech, Omaha, Wisconsin...could bus to each other in 1 day in the old WCHA.

                    For the current WCHA:

                    Bemidji, Mankato, Tech, Northern can bus to each other now in 1 day.

                    Ferris, Lake State, BG can bus to each other in 1 day.

                    BG, and Huntsville can bus to each other in 1 day

                    Alaska and Anchorage can bus...but fly cheaply to each other

                    EVERY other trip for a league member now is a flight or 2 days on a bus with hotel for an extra day or a sleeper bus and all the added costs involved with that (2 drivers, etc).

                    How is it not any more expensive for most of the league...when you had 8 teams within 10 hours of each other before...and now you have at most four?
                    Last edited by beaverhockey; 03-13-2016, 03:35 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

                      Isn't attendance down in both the NCHC, WCHA & B1G compared to the old WCHA & CCHA days?

                      Ancient rivalries were destroyed in favor of cash.

                      And playing what the heck, if raiding AHA is on style..

                      Far West conference: ASU, USAFA, CC, DU, AK, UAA
                      WCHA3: UNO, UND, BSU, SCSU, UMM, UMD, MTU
                      CCHA2: UAH, BGSU, FSU, WMU, NMU, LSSU, MIA

                      It's ugly, but ancient rivalries restored, travel reduced, money can be made, though the FWC does make me wince and filling OOC for some of the FWC schools may be an issue.
                      CCT '77 & '78
                      4 kids
                      5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                      1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                      ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                      - Benjamin Franklin

                      Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                      I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                      • #12
                        Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

                        Originally posted by Dirty Dream No. 2 View Post

                        Would like to know why the new WCHA isn't instituting a one-trip to Alaska limit for schools. If you have to play at both Alaska schools, you do it in a 11 day window instead of making two trips.

                        Again, screw the Big 14 for destroying college hockey.
                        This is exactly what I had said upon the nWCHA, but it wasn't met with rave reviews from my fellow fans and the nWCHA fellas.
                        Just to be clear. My disinterest in this team became of the Uni's disinterest. Without the success of the hockey team, the other teams would not be where they are. Way to pay back the hockey team. **** UAA.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

                          Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
                          Again, no one made the NCHC members leave or forced ND to go to HE.
                          A misconception here needs to be corrected. No where will you find anything that says Notre Dame wanted to go anywhere when all of this was happening. They in fact were the last team to land. It was only when the NCHC was being formed and Miami (and later Western Michigan) indicated they would leave the CCHA -- leaving it in an untenable position whether or not Notre Dame was a part of it -- that Notre Dame began to consider finding a new league was in its best interest. Jeff Jackson repeatedly stated that his first choice was that the CCHA remain a viable league, something that was probably possible with the 8 teams that remained. When the NCHC formed, Notre Dame briefly considered that to be the best spot for them. But a pizzing match with the power structure there over TV contracts was in the offing and only after MU, WMU and the NCHC announced partnerships and the TV tussle ensued did Notre Dame decide to accept the Hockey East invitation. Any other interpretation of the way the events unfolded might be fun, but they ain't correct.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AKSWF View Post
                            This is exactly what I had said upon the nWCHA, but it wasn't met with rave reviews from my fellow fans and the nWCHA fellas.
                            The savings aren't as great as you'd think when you add an extra 4 days of hotels, meals, ice rental, workout facilities, etc. Then you add that an 11 day trip means you have to find activities for the players or they get stuck spending a lot of hotel time. That 11 day trip, as any 11 day trip anywhere for anyone, is extremely fatiguing. I know of a couple coaches who have done it and thought it was a good idea at the time, but would rather do two trips the next time they double dip Alaska.
                            "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

                              Originally posted by IrishHockeyFan View Post
                              A misconception here needs to be corrected. No where will you find anything that says Notre Dame wanted to go anywhere when all of this was happening. They in fact were the last team to land. It was only when the NCHC was being formed and Miami (and later Western Michigan) indicated they would leave the CCHA -- leaving it in an untenable position whether or not Notre Dame was a part of it -- that Notre Dame began to consider finding a new league was in its best interest. Jeff Jackson repeatedly stated that his first choice was that the CCHA remain a viable league, something that was probably possible with the 8 teams that remained. When the NCHC formed, Notre Dame briefly considered that to be the best spot for them. But a pizzing match with the power structure there over TV contracts was in the offing and only after MU, WMU and the NCHC announced partnerships and the TV tussle ensued did Notre Dame decide to accept the Hockey East invitation. Any other interpretation of the way the events unfolded might be fun, but they ain't correct.
                              How about just rephrasing it to - the WCHA and the CCHA didn't have to break apart- they had two solid conferences even after losing 2 or 3 teams... That way, nobody is accused of being greedy (other than the B1G)...

                              It's one thing for a set of teams that are in a larger conference to be a hockey conference, it's another for teams to go out and form a conference because other teams are not willing to put hockey on some kind of mountain.

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