WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

For my 500th post I'd like to inform you all that Burish was at the Hawks game tonight with Toews and they were dressed in the Dumb & Dumber tuxedos, orange & blue, with top hats and canes. Wonder who thought of that...

Obligatory college hockey content: George Gwozdecky

[Dirty]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

For my 500th post I'd like to inform you all that Burish was at the Hawks game tonight with Toews and they were dressed in the Dumb & Dumber tuxedos, orange & blue, with top hats and canes. Wonder who thought of that...

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/galle...ng.htm?id=9804

Fourth Picture in.

[solovsfett]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Wow. Great game tonight. I hope UW brings it again tomorrow.

Re: Showdown, Showcase, B10. w-t-f is going on with Alvarez? If he doesn't stop interfering in hockey I know 2 badger boosters who will stop donating to the badger fund (which really in some ways is extorting us to keep our seats). OR, I'd love an option where any and all $ we give goes directly to hockey related events...

anyway, the showdown has sucked since they moved it to a lame Saturday-Sunday format. When it was Friday-Saturday, the team ruled, and they had top 10 competition involved it was a HUGE hit as noted earlier. Given the last 10 showdowns or so it's really been awful as far as competition (which makes UW's losses even worse) so I wouldn't mind seeing it go.

The showcase should add OSU and have the 2 teams w/the worst records face off sorta like the Final Five WCHA....just my .02 there.

no eastern schools? that sucks. I don't care to see MSU or the rats of the east (michigan) more than once per season really. I enjoy BU, BC, UNH, Maine, more.

I guess I'm not understanding what Alvarez and whoever the hell else is pushing buttons here is really driving at. They'll kill NCAA hockey if they try to make it like roundball or football.

In the end, Miami of Ohio, Northern Michigan, Colorado College, Michigan Tech, LSSU, those are the kinds of small or tiny schools that make college hockey so much more interesting that roundball or football because with a good coach those schools can win the NCAA. and 4 of 5 on that list have won it all.

I guess Alvarez and others (probably b10 network, espn) want to see B10 schools win the title each year and win it over another B10 opponent each year.

ugh

[Scottyp]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

He's your reprsentative. The college hockey world is very confused about Wisconsin's attitude towards Men's hockey.

I think its pretty simple what Barry is trying to do. He is trying to force Minnesota to face reality and build a big ten conference. By his willingness to throw out the B10 showcase (kind of oddly named since OSU is not included...) he is denying that stage to Minnesota. The end goal is to build something better. He sees (and I concur) that the B10 college hockey showcase is a crutch. So he wants to dump it, schedule OSU every other year in its place, get on the B10 network.

Now, what will Minnesota do? Continue their series with Michigan and State? Maybe. Schedule OSU consistently? It would be tough for them not to, since they are a Big Ten team. And with the cancellation of the holiday tournament, we now have two open dates to play with every year. Interesting, no? I personally think Barry is taking it on himself to start addressing and fixing some of the issues with college hockey.

The Plan:
1.) Get 5 big ten schools in B10 conference.
2.) Showcase all games between them on B10 network - maximize exposure.
3.) Crown Big Ten Champ every year, while continuing to have a solid WCHA and CCHA.
4.) Show other Big Ten schools the excitement of hockey, and how much exposure and money they can make off of the sport.
5.) Convince Penn St. and Iowa to start programs.
6.) Realign WCHA and CCHA into three conferences with 3 big time schools in each as an anchor(add UND and Notre Dame as big time schools), a number of smaller schools to ensure their success, and gain much needed room to expand.

OK, this is a ways out, and making some assumptions, but its at least a realistic path to really grow the sport, solve some of the problems, etc.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

OK, this is a ways out, and making some assumptions, but its at least a realistic path to really grow the sport, solve some of the problems, etc.

The problem with that is that it won't grow the sport. You'll isolate the sport even more.

[Scottyp]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

The problem with that is that it won't grow the sport. You'll isolate the sport even more.

How?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

How?

A big 10 hockey conference will destroy the schools that are left over in the CCHA and the WCHA. Heck the CCHA is barely holding on as it is with Michigan and Michigan State and you're going to take them away?

Whatever. The other guy was right about your AD.

[Scottyp]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

A big 10 hockey conference will destroy the schools that are left over in the CCHA and the WCHA. Heck the CCHA is barely holding on as it is with Michigan and Michigan State and you're going to take them away?

Whatever. The other guy was right about your AD.

You are entirely misunderstanding what is being proposed. We would not leave the WCHA. Nor would Minnesota. Michigan, Michigan State and OSU would stay in the CCHA. However, all of our non-conference games would be played against each other. We would track the records of those games AS IF they were B10 conference games. We would be in two conferences simultaneously. Get it?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

You are entirely misunderstanding what is being proposed. We would not leave the WCHA. Nor would Minnesota. Michigan, Michigan State and OSU would stay in the CCHA. However, all of our non-conference games would be played against each other. We would track the records of those games AS IF they were B10 conference games. We would be in two conferences simultaneously. Get it?

And that's another terrible idea. A more insular schedule, just what hockey needs right now. Just what everyone wants out west, never to get to play BC, or UNH, or Maine, or BU anymore. Wheeeee.............

[Scottyp]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

And that's another terrible idea. A more insular schedule, just what hockey needs right now. Just what everyone wants out west, never to get to play BC, or UNH, or Maine, or BU anymore. Wheeeee.............

And what's the alternative? You just said the CCHA is barely hanging on. What happens when their teams start to fold? Watch college hockey slowly die down to three conferences? We should be playing our games where there is potential growth in the sport. There's not a college within 250 miles of NH that we would care if they started a hockey program. Where would they go, anyway? The solution is to have another conference anchored by a couple of big time programs just like the CCHA and WCHA are now. In order to do that you need to grow the sport and add big time programs.

[Scottyp]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

And that's another terrible idea. A more insular schedule, just what hockey needs right now. Just what everyone wants out west, never to get to play BC, or UNH, or Maine, or BU anymore. Wheeeee.............

Now that Im thinking about it, the only way Penn State adds hockey is if there is a B10 conference, and they have a league to go into. I wonder if Barry has already discussed this with their AD and they have some sort of understanding that if Barry can put the pieces in place.... It would certainly explain why he is willing to chuck the B10 showcase.

[solovsfett]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Now that Im thinking about it, the only way Penn State adds hockey is if there is a B10 conference, and they have a league to go into. I wonder if Barry has already discussed this with their AD and they have some sort of understanding that if Barry can put the pieces in place.... It would certainly explain why he is willing to chuck the B10 showcase.

uhm....are you out of your mind? Seriously.

You want to grow the sport? Then show ESPN or Versus that UW outdraws the women's roundball team (and let's see stats on 100% of NCAA women's roundball draws, I'm willing to bet UW men's Hockey outdraws all of them on a game per game basis), outdraws 4-6 NHL teams, if not more, etc. and get em on TV. get the NHL announcers (and the Blackhawks radio guys are GREAT at this) to harp on the colleges these kids went to in their broadcasts like the NFL does so that casual fans make the connection and begin to maybe take an interest in the NCAA hockey and watch the Frozen Four or better yet attend a live game.

Iowa or Penn State, or in the east Syracuse or whomever won't mean jack **** to the world. You do understand that right? Cause right now we've got UW, MN, Mich, MSU, BC, Notre Dame, OSU, BIG NAME RECOGNITION schools playing this sport. And still only the hockey nuts care.

You can add USC, UCLA, Georgetown, Texas, whomever and it won't make a dimesworth of difference to the general public,....it just won't (not unless ESPN begins to cover this sport with some seriousness, which it doesn't. Women's basketball and billiards is more important to ESPN then Men's hockey and that's pretty much a pillar in the foundation of the problem...ahem).

Back to the orinigal point, Alvarez and apparently perhaps you, do not understand NCAA Hockey. Exactly how many more people will fill the Kohl Center vs. an upstart Iowa or Penn State team vs. Boston College or Boston University? The attendance would actually go down for that. At least the way it stands now. I'd rather see Michigan Tech (3 NCAA championships to their credit), UMD (1 NCAA Title, history, Brett Hull, 2-3 hobey winners, etc., etc.) than Penn State or Iowa.

and the real reason behind my opinion there is that Penn State and Iowa are NOT Hockey schools, fans, etc. If they were, the *******s would have started a D-1 hockey program already...duh...

get real.

[blockski]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

I agree with Scottyp here.

If you want to grow, it's impossible with the current arrangement. WCHA and CCHA both with 12 (ish) teams. Eastern conferences are full.

My scenario would be this - the WCHA and CCHA reduce their schedules to 22 or 24 conference games. 22 games would be a full round robin, one series against every opponent. You'd have a problem of home-road imbalance, but that can be solved. 24 games would be a full round robin, one series against everyone and one extra series against your designated rival. Since that only happens once a year, perhaps rivals could rotate.

That opens up more non-conference games. Right now, you get 6 games (8 with a trip to Alaska). Now, you'd get 10 (12 with AK) or 12 (14 with AK). Given that Wisconsin already plays Minnesota in conference, then they just schedule non-con series against Mich, Mich State, and OSU - and you've got a pseudo Big Ten conference - still with 4-8 more OOC dates to fill.

That reduces insularity, it doesn't increase it.

For the non-BT members, the reality is that there's not much difference between a 24 and a 28 game schedule when the conference is jammed with 12 teams.

Going to ESPN or VS won't grow the sport. No chance. There is, however, a certain TV network associated with a certain athletic conference that would like to have some more programming...

It's not that billiards is more important to ESPN, it's that it's cheaper. Producing live games isn't cheap, and unless you get the ratings, it doesn't make sense. College hockey is burdened by the fact that it's a regional sport to begin with (one strike) and it's hockey, which isn't the most popular even at the highest level (two strikes). That's not a plan for growth.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Now that Im thinking about it, the only way Penn State adds hockey is if there is a B10 conference, and they have a league to go into. I wonder if Barry has already discussed this with their AD and they have some sort of understanding that if Barry can put the pieces in place.... It would certainly explain why he is willing to chuck the B10 showcase.

They may add with a Big 10 conference but then 7 schools will drop.

[Almington]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

I agree with Scottyp here.

I don't.

If you want to grow, it's impossible with the current arrangement. WCHA and CCHA both with 12 (ish) teams. Eastern conferences are full.

I will conceed this point (given that their are 24 "western" teams in the western reason for college hockey)

My scenario would be this - the WCHA and CCHA reduce their schedules to 22 or 24 conference games. 22 games would be a full round robin, one series against every opponent. You'd have a problem of home-road imbalance, but that can be solved. 24 games would be a full round robin, one series against everyone and one extra series against your designated rival. Since that only happens once a year, perhaps rivals could rotate.

That is fine given that you don't play 4 games against every team every year as it is in a 12 team schedule. I have no problem wiuth this solution.

That opens up more non-conference games. Right now, you get 6 games (8 with a trip to Alaska). Now, you'd get 10 (12 with AK) or 12 (14 with AK). Given that Wisconsin already plays Minnesota in conference, then they just schedule non-con series against Mich, Mich State, and OSU - and you've got a pseudo Big Ten conference - still with 4-8 more OOC dates to fill.

I emphasised the key to your tem, it is a pseudo B10 conference, thus your crown a champion but they wouldn't get an NCAA auto bid and they decision making powers would remain with the WCHA and CCHA offices.

That reduces insularity, it doesn't increase it.

It would make the CCHA and WCHA conferences more intertwined but wouldn't change the east-west insularity given that...

For the non-BT members, the reality is that there's not much difference between a 24 and a 28 game schedule when the conference is jammed with 12 teams.

those reduced conference games will most likely be filled with games between teams from those conferences (given a desire to keep travel costs as low as possible.

Going to ESPN or VS won't grow the sport. No chance. There is, however, a certain TV network associated with a certain athletic conference that would like to have some more programming...

It's not that billiards is more important to ESPN, it's that it's cheaper. Producing live games isn't cheap, and unless you get the ratings, it doesn't make sense. College hockey is burdened by the fact that it's a regional sport to begin with (one strike) and it's hockey, which isn't the most popular even at the highest level (two strikes). That's not a plan for growth.

I understand that the powers that be find B10 matchups better to air on the BtN, I fail to see a reason that other games against major opponents can't be aired on the network. I fail to see that much in the difference in the resulting add revenue.


The major reason that I disagree with Scottyp are two of his points:

5.) Convince Penn St. and Iowa to start programs.
6.) Realign WCHA and CCHA into three conferences with 3 big time schools in each as an anchor(add UND and Notre Dame as big time schools), a number of smaller schools to ensure their success, and gain much needed room to expand.

We have agreed that their is no room to expand and
Their is no way to break the current conferences up into 3 leagues that would be acceptable to the current teams that would be moved to the 3rd conference. You either form a true BTHC or you are stuck with 2 conference since their is ZERO chances of taking the current teams and breaking them into 3 balanced conferences. ZERO. NONE. NADDA. SQUADOOSH!