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2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

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  • #46
    Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

    Originally posted by grantfan View Post

    Apparently, this player wasn't loving hockey when he quit the USHL and his opportunity to be scouted for the NHL draft and decommitted from North Dakota after 2 full USHL seasons that could have left a player thing, "Maybe I'm not very good."
    Or, maybe he just figured, hey, this really isn't much fun. I don't want to play, my stats are suffering and it just sucks.

    Originally posted by grantfan View Post
    In his second full USHL season, he averaged 1 shot on goal/game and scored 10g-9a in 53 games, with a team-BEST -35. Maybe Sneddon is recruiting really strong offensive players he can teach defense, jcarter wonders, wishfully. The maybe that comes to my mind is, maybe I'm not very good. Maybe North Dakota thought that.
    Umm, hey grantfan, if he was a team best -35, don't you think that makes his 19 pts in 53 games all the more impressive, because one thing is for sure.....his team sucked. You know this is reminiscent of another UVM player who had really shoody USHL numbers mainly because he played on a crap team.... Maybe Rob was a better goalie then the 4 GAA he was giving up? Hmm, that seemed to work pretty well for Sneddon last year.

    ANd maybe Nor Dak thought he wasn't very good but since it was White that decommitted, not N. Dakota I think that it is a bit more likely the kid lost interest in hockey, you know like the article states.

    Originally posted by grantfan View Post
    Why hasn't North Dakota re-seen what they thought they once saw in this player? Why is Vermont so lucky to snare him from the high school and midget ranks?
    How do you know North Dakota hasn't? Did you ever stop to think that maybe it was because of someone like Rob Madore that he decided to choose to come to VT rather then to re-approach N. Dak? Or maybe North Dakota is full and doesn't have the scholarship available a la McCarthy and BC?

    Grantfan,
    You have some issues, ok, I'm thinking split personality, but whatever. That's all fine and dandy, but you seem to struggle figuring out why you butt heads with people, so I am going to fill you in. Just a few posts back after "soul searching" you wrote a very logical and well thought out post that contained stats and arguments that backed up your points. NO ONE criticized and in fact a few even commented on it. Then you post this post, that is a rant, with no facts, few stats, absolutely no logic, and presumptions and projections galore.

    Basically, when you stop to think about what you are posting you do alright, but you start being on the opposite of everyone else when you start assuming stuff, and bringing in arguments that have nothing to do with anything ( like whether or not Madore played hockey in HS ).
    Originally posted by Hokydad
    Maine will be better this year relative to rankings than BC will be this year

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

      Originally posted by GuttCheck View Post
      Grantfan, you are clearly a glass is half empty type of guy.

      I like the players Sneddon has brought in and continues to bring in. I trust his judgment. Anyone can speculate and say the kid is going to be great or the kid is going to be terrible (you), but the reality is we won't really know until the kid skates at Gutterson. I like our roster, I think the program is moving forward under Sneddon's plan, I like everything the guy has done since he has been here. You can b*tch all you want about the recruits, but I like the direction this program is moving, so I will continue to trust Sneddon's recruiting judgment.
      Just to add a little on the same note is that Sneddon has done a very good job recruiting year in and year out. I don't expect next years to be any different and I too will put my trust in Sneddon into he gives me reason otherwise
      Originally posted by Hokydad
      Maine will be better this year relative to rankings than BC will be this year

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

        I wonder how many other players in the high school and midget games that the UVM coaches watched will be skating in Hockey East or Division I or college hockey in September?

        Rob Madore was not crap on his USHL team. If you think White's 19 points and -35 say his team sucked, can one conclude he was one of the suckiest on his team? Or did everyone else suck and he was terrific?

        You can like everything that Sneddon does, I think he's a pleasant guy to talk to, but I'm not a fan of his coaching and this is one of the silliest college hockey recruiting things I've seen in a long time.

        Is a recruiting class good if 2 players turn into what they were supposed to be? Should a recruiting class include players that contribute as freshmen? Josh Franklin? Matt Marshall, a 20 year old freshman? Ben Albertson? Lance Herrington and Anders Franzon? Because this is not about the boys, I'll stop there. How many players do you recruit that you will NOT let play.

        Every coach misses on recruited players and Sneddon is allowed that. But there are credentials that coaches can reasonably be fooled by and there are credentials coaches should never be fooled by. Prep school players and now midget (forget high school) players are credentials that should not fool Division I hockey coaches. Yet Sneddon gets fooled repeatedly by players that do not seem to fool others. This one MIGHT set the standard.

        I agree, we'll see when he gets to Gutterson. But, Matt White does not have the credentials of Ben Albertson or even Josh Franklin or Matt Marshall. That is all I'm saying.

        P.S. - Where is Chris Atkinson? I don't even see him at games anymore. Coach Sneddon used to love to talk about this young man, now he has evaporated without a word.
        Last edited by grantfan; 01-15-2010, 11:51 AM.

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        • #49
          Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

          Originally posted by grantfan View Post
          I wonder how many other players in the high school and midget games that the UVM coaches watched will be skating in Hockey East or Division I or college hockey in September?
          FYI - From USHR:
          White projects to be an effective two-way player with size and skating ability who will also provide some offense. There were a number of top schools interested in him last season when he was with Des Moines, but all except Vermont backed off when he returned to midgets.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

            Originally posted by boblav1 View Post
            FYI - From USHR:
            Don't go bringing in pesky facts here, Grantfan has a good rant going.
            Originally posted by Hokydad
            Maine will be better this year relative to rankings than BC will be this year

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

              Originally posted by grantfan View Post

              Rob Madore was not crap on his USHL team. If you think White's 19 points and -35 say his team sucked, can one conclude he was one of the suckiest on his team? Or did everyone else suck and he was terrific?
              Matt White was ranked 9th in scoring on that team with 19 points and was tops for his age, with the next 16 year old scoring 8 points with (3) 17, (3) 18, and 3 (19) year olds ahead of him. So no he was not the suckiest on his team, not by a long shot. And his -35 is a little overinflated, since there was not a single player on that team, NOT ONE SINGLE PLAYER that was a "+". The goalies were 4GAA, 4.7 GAA, and 5 GAA. I would say that putting up 19 points was tough to do as it appears most of the time on ice was spent withotu puck possession.

              As for Madore, with the Steel, in 39 games he won 8, and had a 3.8GAA, the following season in 44 games he managed 22 wins and a 2.9 GAA. Those numbers are not stellar. Do you think Sneddon saw a good player on a bad team? Just maybe Sneddon recognized that it Rob was a good little goalie, but was just getting shelled night in and night out? And that maybe, just maybe he see White, shift after shift chasing the puck on defense and but everytime he gets the puck he actually scores, biasing the actual statistics? That maybe and other coaches in fact see some potential in White?

              No, of course not, all you can see is that Sneddon is a nice guy and a horrible coach. Even though year after year after year we get decent recruiting classes.
              Originally posted by Hokydad
              Maine will be better this year relative to rankings than BC will be this year

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

                Grantfan - your negativity towards our highly effective coach is palpable. Sneddon is the best thing that has happened to the program since it was started. Period. End of discussion.

                Ditto for Fogel to the University by the way.

                Can you imagine where this program would be if they had hired Grillo like the former players wanted?

                UVM has been in the running for some of the absolute TOP recruits in recent years, and this continues. This is despite an average or less than average facility and the long commute to road games which can't be considered a positive attribute.

                We need an upgraded facility (rink, locker rooms, weight/workout facilities) and if we get that and keep our coach we have a chance to be in the top tier of programs year in and year out.

                I believe we have a former high school player who never played juniors/USHL on our team who is pretty effective.

                Please keep your negativity towards our coach to complaining about the power play (the most relevant complaint you have) and wait to see what happens with Matt White before you write him off. He may end up being our best forward for the next four years. You never know.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

                  Grantfan: P.S. - Where is Chris Atkinson? I don't even see him at games anymore. Coach Sneddon used to love to talk about this young man, now he has evaporated without a word.

                  FYI Chris Atkinson in BFP 12/31/09: Junior forward Chris Atkinson has left the University of Vermont men’s hockey team, head coach Kevin Sneddon confirmed Wednesday.
                  “Chris is taking a mutually agreed upon indefinite leave of absence to attend to personal matters,” Sneddon said.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

                    4th liner, thanks, I neither saw that in the paper nor heard anyone mention it. I missed it.

                    Much like I miss the points on Matt White. I hope people might agree that not a lot of scholarships go to either USHL drop outs or high school/midget players. We got one and maybe he'll be the best player on the team the next 4 years. And maybe he'll leave early for the NHL.

                    jcarter, I'll trade wits with you. Project this kid any way you want, any way USHR projects, all schools backed off him. When I read that, I thought that was MY point. And who is the UVM player who didn't play juniors and is an effective player? Are you thinking of competent Kevan Miller - no Edwards, no Kessel, no Warsofsky, no Sneep, no Dehner, no Van Dyk, no Schaus, no Braun, no Shattenkirk, no Newton - or Cullity? Picking guys from this particular D corps is a tough call. Brett Leonard? Matt Marshall? Who?

                    Separately, to be clear, I have not liked how Sneddon has handled Wahs Stacey for some time now. A coach has to figure out how to reach players and I don't think Sneddon is good at that (Stacey and Lawson are obvious examples). Reading Ted Ryan's recent blog, I'm not sure I like how he handled Justin Milo either, a kid who seems to me to always work hard on the ice. I think Sneddon is a remarkably poor coach of PPs, though he never stops meddling. I think the 3 D - 2 freshman PP was a remarkably stupid idea and it either A) failed, or B) worked fabulously and was disbanded, your choice, fans. I think his handling of the goalies has been awful ever since he let Joe Fallon flounder for half a season and cost us a tournament bid. I think his recruiting a series of very young players from ridiculously low levels of play is very questionable and I think this Matt White deal is a joke, but we'll see. Those are my main beefs.

                    UVM Hockey to me is the boys that come to Burlington and play for the University, no matter how good or not good they may be. I like watching them play hockey. As coaches go, I like Mike Gilligan and I wish him well.
                    Last edited by grantfan; 01-15-2010, 03:05 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

                      Should be a good series with NU. Key tonight is to score first to take the wind out of NU who will likely come out fired up after some grilling by their coaching staff after their last couple of games. We really need to take 2 here and get some points in HE!!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

                        Originally posted by GreenCat View Post
                        Should be a good series with NU. Key tonight is to score first to take the wind out of NU who will likely come out fired up after some grilling by their coaching staff after their last couple of games. We really need to take 2 here and get some points in HE!!
                        Well, that theory was a bust....

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

                          UVM did not move their feet enough to earn the Win

                          Having said that, NU did not impress at all either

                          Yet again, IMHO, the opposition won on better goaltending as UVM's was soft and Rawlings was impressive when tested (although not tested enough)

                          I really thought UVM would come out in the 3rd and storm them but they did not bring it enough

                          The seniors are just not getting it done to the extent I expected this season

                          tonight is a must win IMHO and should be very telling. If they can't get it done tonight and win the season series then my assessment is that they just are not able to play up to their ability as a team and I will stop hoping for the big winning streak in the second half that I had expected

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

                            Dissappointing loss.
                            Originally posted by Hokydad
                            Maine will be better this year relative to rankings than BC will be this year

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

                              Originally posted by Cat lover View Post
                              This weekends games are on paper 2 of the easier ones left on the schedule and you would think 4 points is very possible. NE is coming off a wasted 4 goal rally versus UML, and the Cats are on a 4 game winning streak.

                              Golden opportunity or letdown alert?
                              I am numb...total letdown...

                              Originally posted by observer85 View Post
                              In answer to your question...I like to think of the Glass as being half full...I would say this is a "Golden opportunity". The boys should be healthy and should be focused with 2 weeks of practice time.
                              As least the 1st period was a golden opportunity...but only 1 goal and Vermont dominated play...was it too easy that they let themselves believe it was going to be an "easy" W? They do not have the talent to allow for that to happen.

                              Originally posted by snwbrdr View Post
                              BC's current woes are not helping with the PWR situation but I expect they will get their act together soon - and hopefully against some of the teams the Cats are chasing in the standings.
                              BC helped UVM last night with their 6-1 win over Maine and we did not accept that help. UMass helped too, with their win over Lowell. Wasted opportunities...will kill this team...

                              Originally posted by observer85 View Post
                              or a win and a tie for 3 points...a tie would probably be considered by Northeastern as a "win" and by Vermont, a "loss". But it would give UVM 5 of the 6 available points. They need them...wins and points that is.
                              Forget that tie being a psychological "win"...a real win has to be a psychological lift for NU. UVM could still win tonight and come out of the series with 4 of 6 points. They got 4 of 6 vs. BC, so maybe that is what they have set out to accomplish this season.

                              I am thinking there might be some lineup changes tonight. Franzon should be in but for who? Perhaps Miller, Cullity or Medvec? That won't happen but then this coach has a unique finger on the pulse of his team. Forward changes...perhaps Leonard in for Marshall or Higgins? Leonard has been in the doghouse since his 15 minute penalty game vs. UNH. Time to get out? He did bring a level of energy in those 8 games he did dress for...
                              Remember the 5 "S's" of hockey - Speed, Size, Strength, Skill and Smarts - The more you have of these, the higher level you get to go to....

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

                                Disappointing loss last night. I just don't understand how we can play such a great game against UMD 2 weeks ago, but then have such a poor 2nd and 3rd period against a team that does not have the talent and pedigree of UMD. It looks like the team was a little off last night, passes were not accurate and they did not take advantage of quality scoring opportunities...a lot of that can be attributed to the solid defensive play of Northeastern (blocking shots, etc.).

                                Looked at the roster last night during the game, and noticed that Atkinson is no longer listed. Looks like we will not see him back this year.

                                We received a commitment from HT Lenz last yesterday, who just happens to play on the same team (and plays on the same line) as our prized recruit for next year, Connor Brickley.

                                Hoping for a win tonight.

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