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What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

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  • #76
    Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

    Originally posted by drshoen View Post
    I-380 is 70MPH for a little while between Scranton and Stroudsburg, but only about 15 miles; it was the best part of my weekend drive, by far!
    The pike also is, and I believe parts of I-80. If this test goes well, I wouldn't be surprised if they move more interstates up in the next couple of years.
    Last edited by FlagDUDE08; 03-24-2015, 11:45 AM.

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    • #77
      Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

      Originally posted by Riz View Post
      Yes because Providence, Green Bay, and Worcester are SO easy to get to for those of us out west??

      Sioux Falls was mentioned. Do you know how far it is for ANYONE to get to Sioux Falls. (I'll pause for a moment so people east of Illinois can look up what state Sioux Falls is in)

      And Providence and Worcester are out east, so they aren't going to be replaced by Omaha or Des Moines. I didn't expect it to be easy for people from Colorado to get to those sites.
      tUMD is Jan Brady per Brenthoven. Whew.... thanks for clearing THAT up.

      Best USCHO quotes to date:

      "UND/DU will realize that their party sucks, because the easterners only want to drink Zima." - BPH

      "It is too bad that aaron marvin was a senior so he can't go after the rest of the sioux". - bigblue_dl

      "I would rather play the blackhawks than you right now." - dogs2012

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

        Originally posted by pgb-ohio View Post
        ...
        I really don't buy that the regionals in the East are working so well they can't be changed. As an example, I attended in Worcester in 2005, the year North Dakota "won the Beanpot." In other words, both BU and BC were in the field. My impression was that both the crowd size and atmosphere were good, but definitely not great. Regionals in other years at Yost, Munn & Mariucci were all much, much better in both regards. Maybe I just haven't been to enough Eastern regionals...
        And I didn't mean to oversell the success of the eastern regionals (e.g. I edited "works fine" to "works at least adequately"). But I also think that most of the other proposals are worse. e.g. I think one thing we violently agree on is that a pre-assigned regional at Yost, Munn, or Mariucci is a bad thing, especially bad, particularly if the "real" home team is there as a lower seed.

        I'd rather have games at half-full neutral sites with good lighting and televising angles. I enjoy going to games live, but it's for the hockey, not for the "atmosphere", so this year I may go to Manchester, but I'll DVR the other games and watch them and be grateful they're televised.

        This year, I'd say South Bend looks to me like an attendance disaster. WeAreNDHockey has pointed out that it'll be a sellout, so the NCAA may look the other way. But I'm concerned about actual butts in the seats. Last year there were mumblings about changing the tournament structure, and it was painfully obvious that there was a shortage of western sites submitting bids, so it's entirely possible that the NCAA will have to change the tournament structure somehow. I'd just say "be careful what you wish for" and whatever they decide, all of us will be disappointed somehow, and some of us will be irate.

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        • #79
          Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

          Originally posted by manurespreader View Post
          I think the regionals should be played on NHL sheets, but that's just me. In any event it tilts the ice, from an in game perspective, too much to the home team imho.)
          Why do you feel that way? There are already a tiny percentage of Regionals on Olympic Ice (and I believe 0 Frozen Fours) so you wanna make sure that number drops to zero?
          tUMD is Jan Brady per Brenthoven. Whew.... thanks for clearing THAT up.

          Best USCHO quotes to date:

          "UND/DU will realize that their party sucks, because the easterners only want to drink Zima." - BPH

          "It is too bad that aaron marvin was a senior so he can't go after the rest of the sioux". - bigblue_dl

          "I would rather play the blackhawks than you right now." - dogs2012

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

            Originally posted by manurespreader View Post
            Omaha is a dump. Worcester is better. Or Lowell.
            WOW!!!!

            If there is ANY truth to this statement, Omaha should immediately be banished to the jungles of Central America. [Note: the zoo can stay ]
            Whenever I think of the past, it brings back so many memories. - Stephen Wright

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            • #81
              Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

              Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
              The pike also is, and I believe parts of I-80. If this test goes well, I wouldn't be surprised if they move more interstates up in the next couple of years.
              Jersey Turnpike should be one of them.
              Originally posted by nmupiccdiva
              ...anyone that can start a meme like that is welcome and will fit in just fine around here.

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

                Originally posted by Red Cows View Post
                They need to NOT be in large metropolitan areas where there is big competition for sports dollars from pro sports. They need to be in cities like (and I am using the Midwest just as an example here) like Des Moines, Sioux Falls, and yes, Omaha---medium markets that have the facilities to put on such an event and aren't crazy expensive to get to. Having some sort of hockey background or legacy in a given locale wouldn't hurt, either.

                People in towns like these will get behind an NCAA Championship event being held in their town.
                I'm afraid that alone isn't enough. Rochester, NY, has all the elements you cite, but the regional there several years ago was abysmally attended.


                Powers &8^]

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

                  Originally posted by pgb-ohio View Post
                  I don't have specific numbers in mind. But I'd be fine with establishing a minimum size for hosting the 1st Round. Schools with rinks below that minimum would have to make alternate arrangements in advance. In that relatively uncommon event, presumably the extra tickets sold would cover the extra expense. Or perhaps the NCAA could redirect other tournament revenue to cover any losses that might occur from having to book a bigger facility. For campuses that are both small and truly remote, perhaps you'd need to make an exception. In such a case a few of the home folk would have to yield to a small guaranteed visitors' section. But remember these games aren't on the season ticket. In most cases the number of season ticket holders who opt out would cover the need for that small visitors' section.
                  So, say, Canisius ends up being able to host. Your choices are 2,100-seat HARBORCENTER or 19,000-seat First Niagara Center, the latter of which may or may not have an open date that weekend. If "atmosphere" is your goal, the FNC isn't going to cut it.


                  Powers &8^]

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                  • #84
                    Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

                    Originally posted by LtPowers View Post
                    So, say, Canisius ends up being able to host. Your choices are 2,100-seat HARBORCENTER or 19,000-seat First Niagara Center, the latter of which may or may not have an open date that weekend. If "atmosphere" is your goal, the FNC isn't going to cut it...
                    Fair point, and I'm sure it would be easy to come up with the several more hypothetical hosts where there would be no perfect choice. Still, let's not lose track of the practical realities here. No system is going to be perfect. But at least in the West, the current system is badly broken. Year after year, the system is delivering empty arenas that are a losing proposition for all involved. For comparison sake, let's take a look at the campus sites of this year's top 8 teams.

                    North Dakota, BU, Miami, Denver, UMD and UNO are all well suited to hosting such a game or series. Don't need to look anything up to know that. I was less than 100% sure about Mankato and MTU, so I checked. Mankato seats 5,280; Tech 4,200. Each is more than adequate for 1/8th of the first round, IMHO. I truly believe that all 8 events would have been successful.

                    OK, maybe we just got lucky this year. It must be conceded that there are a lot of newer, state-of-the-art arenas on that list. A good project for someone would be to go back and check the top 8 pairwise teams over the last ten years. Maybe you'd uncover a lot of arena problems. Maybe. But just throwing a guess out there, I'm thinking 0-1 problematic cases in a typical season.

                    And what of that one problem case? Let's take the Canisius situation head-on. Given the lack of a suitable middle-sized arena in Buffalo, I'd grant a waiver and let them host in the HarborCenter. Let's suppose that 1,000 fans get closed out. Fans that generally don't go to the games during the regular season. Few of whom would have been willing to travel to say, Fargo. While I'm not indifferent to the disappointment of someone who gets closed out, the number of those affected isn't large enough to trump the need to fix the current system.

                    But how about fans of the visiting team who get closed out? Well, one answer is to finish in the Top 8. But even more to the point, ask the players and coaches. Would you rather play one of the most important games of the season in front of a loud, sellout crowd of 2,100? Even if most of the 2,100 were hostile? Or would you rather play in a scrimmage atmosphere, in a larger but mostly empty building? As long as the home ice advantage was earned over the course of the season, I'm confident the answer would be drop the puck, let's play in front of the crowd.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

                      Originally posted by CLS View Post
                      ... I think one thing we violently agree on is that a pre-assigned regional at Yost, Munn, or Mariucci is a bad thing, especially bad, particularly if the "real" home team is there as a lower seed.
                      Yes; violently agreed.

                      I'd rather have games at half-full neutral sites with good lighting and televising angles. I enjoy going to games live, but it's for the hockey, not for the "atmosphere", so this year I may go to Manchester, but I'll DVR the other games and watch them and be grateful they're televised.
                      It does put television coverage of the first round at risk, particularly if we insist on playing a 2 of 3 format. But I think that TV coverage of the 2nd Round would actually improve. Given its own weekend, I believe you'd get better channels and more eyeballs for the Round of 8. (4 games)

                      ...I'd just say "be careful what you wish for" and whatever they decide, all of us will be disappointed somehow, and some of us will be irate.
                      No question. But I still believe we can do much better than the status quo, even if none of us gets our first choice.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

                        Originally posted by LtPowers View Post
                        I'm afraid that alone isn't enough. Rochester, NY, has all the elements you cite, but the regional there several years ago was abysmally attended.


                        Powers &8^]
                        Did RIT make it to the championship weekend that year?

                        In several places, attendance will be spiked by who is in the tounament, and the chances people feel about that particular team winning. Take a look at the spike in attendance for the ECAC in 2003, 2005, and 2010. Take a wild guess at who won those years. Atlantic City was a plain dreadful experiment, so I'd consider that to be an outlier.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

                          Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                          Did RIT make it to the championship weekend that year?
                          It was 2007, which is the first year RIT was in the AHA. They finished first but were ineligible for the postseason as the second year of their transition.

                          But of course, even if RIT had been eligible and had won the championship, there's no guarantee they would have been placed in the East Regional, this year's Providence experience notwithstanding.


                          Powers &8^]

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

                            I don't think I've seen anyone suggest this....and I'm not even sure I'd like it (in fact, I don't think I would support it), but I'll throw it out there for the conversation.

                            What if we stop going by PWR for the entire country. Sure, you can calculate it based on games from the whole country, but when we're actually picking teams, we have 2 PWR rankings, the West and the East. Top 8 west teams (with autobids for the WCHA, NCHC and BIG10) and top 8 east teams (with autobids for the ECAC, HE, and AH) make the tournament. Then have 2 insular west regionals, and 2 insular east regionals. We'd guarantee fans and teams less travel, and that should lead to better atmosphere, even if we do have regionals in places like Green Bay or Grand Rapids, or South Bend, because all 4 teams at each regional would at least be from the right side of the country (ok, maybe ignore Penn State and Robert Morris, and Air Force). Then every Frozen 4 would have 2 east teams and 2 West teams.

                            edit:
                            This year you'd have these teams in the tourney, with these potential matchups (couldn't have the rule about not playing your conferencemate in round 1)

                            East:
                            1. Boston U
                            2. Harvard
                            3. Boston College
                            4. Yale
                            5. Quinnipiac
                            6. Providence
                            7. Colgate
                            8. RIT

                            Manchester:
                            1. Boston U vs. 8. RIT
                            4. Yale vs. 5. Quinnipiac

                            Providence:
                            2. Harvard vs. 7. Colgate
                            3. Boston College vs. 6. Providence

                            West:
                            1. MSU-Mankato
                            2. North Dakota
                            3. Miami
                            4. Denver
                            5. Minnsota-Duluth
                            6. Michigan Tech
                            7. Nebraska-Omaha
                            8. Minnesota

                            South Bend:
                            1. MSU-Mankato vs. 8. Minnesota
                            4. Denver vs. 5. Minnesota-Duluth

                            Fargo:
                            2. North Dakota vs. 7. Nebraska-Omaha
                            3. Miami vs. 6. Michigan Tech

                            Yes, this year is lopsided, and the PWR have more higher ranked west teams, leading to 1 west team dropped, and 1 east added, compared to the current format. But I think that this would even out over the seasons.
                            Last edited by bigblue_dl; 03-24-2015, 04:16 PM.
                            Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

                            RIP - Kirby

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                            • #89
                              Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

                              That's not a national tournament

                              Gotta
                              Have mix
                              From the start in every game, every region

                              East staying amongst themselves would suck ***
                              a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: What if the Committee Decides to Makes Changes to the Tournament Design?

                                Originally posted by bigblue_dl View Post
                                I don't think I've seen anyone suggest this....and I'm not even sure I'd like it (in fact, I don't think I would support it), but I'll throw it out there for the conversation.

                                What if we stop going by PWR for the entire country. Sure, you can calculate it based on games from the whole country, but when we're actually picking teams, we have 2 PWR rankings, the West and the East. Top 8 west teams (with autobids for the WCHA, NCHC and BIG10) and top 8 east teams (with autobids for the ECAC, HE, and AH) make the tournament. Then have 2 insular west regionals, and 2 insular east regionals. We'd guarantee fans and teams less travel, and that should lead to better atmosphere, even if we do have regionals in places like Green Bay or Grand Rapids, or South Bend, because all 4 teams at each regional would at least be from the right side of the country (ok, maybe ignore Penn State and Robert Morris, and Air Force). Then every Frozen 4 would have 2 east teams and 2 West teams.

                                edit:
                                This year you'd have these teams in the tourney, with these potential matchups (couldn't have the rule about not playing your conferencemate in round 1)

                                East:
                                1. Boston U
                                2. Harvard
                                3. Boston College
                                4. Yale
                                5. Quinnipiac
                                6. Providence
                                7. Colgate
                                8. RIT

                                Manchester:
                                1. Boston U vs. 8. RIT
                                4. Yale vs. 5. Quinnipiac

                                Providence:
                                2. Harvard vs. 7. Colgate
                                3. Boston College vs. 6. Providence

                                West:
                                1. MSU-Mankato
                                2. North Dakota
                                3. Miami
                                4. Denver
                                5. Minnsota-Duluth
                                6. Michigan Tech
                                7. Nebraska-Omaha
                                8. Minnesota

                                South Bend:
                                1. MSU-Mankato vs. 8. Minnesota
                                4. Denver vs. 5. Minnesota-Duluth

                                Fargo:
                                2. North Dakota vs. 7. Nebraska-Omaha
                                3. Miami vs. 6. Michigan Tech

                                Yes, this year is lopsided, and the PWR have more higher ranked west teams, leading to 1 west team dropped, and 1 east added, compared to the current format. But I think that this would even out over the seasons.
                                The East and the West each year should get the chance to put forth 3 or 4 FF teams. It would water down the tournament in lopsided years both in the top 8 and as far as the top teams from each side
                                tUMD is Jan Brady per Brenthoven. Whew.... thanks for clearing THAT up.

                                Best USCHO quotes to date:

                                "UND/DU will realize that their party sucks, because the easterners only want to drink Zima." - BPH

                                "It is too bad that aaron marvin was a senior so he can't go after the rest of the sioux". - bigblue_dl

                                "I would rather play the blackhawks than you right now." - dogs2012

                                Comment

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