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  • #91
    Re: Save Uah Hockey!

    Originally posted by Rms123 View Post
    BSU was a good fit for the WCHA, UAH seems to be not a great fit for the CCHA. Everyone is bagging on the CCHA, and it's really not fair. Actually leave the WCHA out of it, where are the other leagues? Why isn't one of them stepping up, and taking on UAH? If it's not a good fit, it's not a good fit. Sorry.
    Nice one what? I never said UW is leaving the WCHA, but I do know there have been discussions of it. Actually a number of discussions. Do they want to leave? Probably not. Would the WCHA want them to leave? Probably not. That still doesn't mean, as I stated earlier, they haven't looked at the change. I'm not making things up, it's a simple fact. I just thought it was interesting information that I recently received, call me names, imply that I use drugs, doesn't really matter to me, just throwing the info out there for discussion.
    Most WCHA teams didn't want UNO, they wanted UAF. 8 out of the 11 teams voted that way. UNO tried to get out of paying a entrance fee, and the WCHA told them they would go after UAF even harder, so UNO backed down and paid. People don't realize how close UAF was to switching to the WCHA.
    Doesn't much matter what most think,things will play out how things will play out, and there are going to be a number of changes down the road, you'll see.
    I thought UAH would get in, and they may still. BSU was denied by the WCHA at first also. One of the big concerns in the CCHA right now is BGSU. I got good info that says they are still hurting really bad (even with the 4 mill). I hate to say it, but that program is holding on by a thread. I think the CCHA wants more info on what is is happening with BGSU, before they take on anyone else.
    I thought this was from tDonald (Dunlop) before I sawyour name, rms. :-o

    Originally posted by SCSU Euro View Post
    Uhhh.... because all of the other leagues have an EVEN number of teams, and yours is ODD?



    I can GUARANTEE DU, CC and MSU-M wanted UNO over UAF. Other than Anchorage, who would want more trips to Alaska, since they're already getting the exemption from UAA, instead of a team developing nicely in a city that everyone can bus to, in a REALLY nice rink, in a relatively-otherwise untapped market ?

    You're right, you didn't say BTHC. Ok, I'll bite.... where is UW going?
    DU's bus rides have been all the way to Colorado Springs. Now they get to ride to Nebraska? What a prize

    Seriously, the CCHA may be acting without thought for College hockay as a whole. I think the WCHA was perfectly happy with a 10 team league, but knew with the demise of the CHA they had to act on Bemidji. And selfishly ddecided to go after UNO( which then left room for UAH in the CCHA.). I just didn't see a ground swell for UAF to join xcept from tDonald and now rms.

    But, why can't there be Division II Hockey? Cooperalls has some valid thoughts.
    Last edited by vizoroo; 08-14-2009, 07:29 PM.
    GO DU !!!

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    • #92
      Re: Save Uah Hockey!

      To throw in some actual research/data about attendance and UAH.

      I've been looking at attendance for games on opening weekend at Yost going back about 10 years. The season opener against UAH in 2006 was the second least attended game over that time period, with 5847 people. The only game that managed to do worse was the following night against UConn, which only drew 5210 people. However, that was in large part due to the fact that the football team had a nationally televised night game against Penn State the same time as the hockey game.

      The only other years that come close are 1999 and 2000 (when honestly, Michigan was doing kind of meh). In 1999, UMass-Lowell drew 6100+ and 6000+. In 2000, Colgate and North Dakota each pulled in a little more than 6100. Merrimack pulled in 6400+ each night in 2002. Mercyhurst brought in 6500+ in 2003. Quinnipiac brought in 6700+ each night in 2005. St Lawrence brought in 6200+ last year, even with the economy down. I left out a couple years where Michigan had solid attendance.

      I'm not trying to say that this justifies the CCHA's decision, but it seems like a lot of reactionaries are glossing over this type of information that (I at least hope) school administrators went over as part of their "due diligence". I don't think you can reasonably dismiss the option that this was mainly a financial decision on the part of a few smaller programs without compiling some serious data and having an intimate look at certain programs' financial information.

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      • #93
        Re: Save Uah Hockey!

        Originally posted by Rms123 View Post
        Most WCHA teams didn't want UNO, they wanted UAF. 8 out of the 11 teams voted that way. UNO tried to get out of paying a entrance fee, and the WCHA told them they would go after UAF even harder, so UNO backed down and paid. People don't realize how close UAF was to switching to the WCHA.
        1) There are only 10 teams in the WCHA...BSU is not in until 2010, so I doubt they'd get to vote on UNO.
        2) The WCHA wanted NMU, but NMU declined for financial reasons.
        3) If the majority voted for UAF, UAF would be in instead of UNO...so, no we don't want your team in our conference. Sorry destroy all your hopes and dreams, I can be an *** like that sometimes.
        4) Dr. Saigo finds the name Nanooks offensive to Eskimos.
        Jordan Kawaguchi for Hobey!!
        Originally posted by Quizmire
        mns, this is why i love you.

        Originally posted by Markt
        MNS - forking genius.

        Originally posted by asterisk hat
        MNS - sometimes you gotta answer your true calling. I think yours is being a pimp.

        Originally posted by hockeybando
        I am a fan of MNS.

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        • #94
          Re: Save Uah Hockey!

          Originally posted by MinnesotaNorthStar View Post
          Dr. Saigo finds the name Nanooks offensive to Eskimos.
          Actually, "Nanook" means polar bear, not Inuit or Eskimo, as many believe. So far the polar bears haven't complained to UAF. I think they have bigger things to worry about.

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          • #95
            Re: Save Uah Hockey!

            Originally posted by Rms123 View Post
            BSU was a good fit for the WCHA, UAH seems to be not a great fit for the CCHA. Everyone is bagging on the CCHA, and it's really not fair. Actually leave the WCHA out of it, where are the other leagues? Why isn't one of them stepping up, and taking on UAH? If it's not a good fit, it's not a good fit. Sorry.
            Nice one what? I never said UW is leaving the WCHA, but I do know there have been discussions of it. Actually a number of discussions. Do they want to leave? Probably not. Would the WCHA want them to leave? Probably not. That still doesn't mean, as I stated earlier, they haven't looked at the change. I'm not making things up, it's a simple fact. I just thought it was interesting information that I recently received, call me names, imply that I use drugs, doesn't really matter to me, just throwing the info out there for discussion.
            Most WCHA teams didn't want UNO, they wanted UAF. 8 out of the 11 teams voted that way. UNO tried to get out of paying a entrance fee, and the WCHA told them they would go after UAF even harder, so UNO backed down and paid. People don't realize how close UAF was to switching to the WCHA.
            Doesn't much matter what most think,things will play out how things will play out, and there are going to be a number of changes down the road, you'll see.
            I thought UAH would get in, and they may still. BSU was denied by the WCHA at first also. One of the big concerns in the CCHA right now is BGSU. I got good info that says they are still hurting really bad (even with the 4 mill). I hate to say it, but that program is holding on by a thread. I think the CCHA wants more info on what is is happening with BGSU, before they take on anyone else.
            1.) The likelyhood of Wisconsin leaving is zero. They might talk about it but they don't have any where to go.

            2.) If the WCHA wanted UAF before UNO why didn't they ask them first. This doesn't make sense to me.

            3.) If BG is hanging by a thread why didn't the CCHA come out and say something. Oh, like some of our member schools might be dropping hockey and we will wait until then to decide if we want to admit Uah.
            Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
            dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
            wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

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            • #96
              Re: Save Uah Hockey!

              Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
              3.) If BG is hanging by a thread why didn't the CCHA come out and say something. Oh, like some of our member schools might be dropping hockey and we will wait until then to decide if we want to admit Uah.
              “The CCHA will remain focused on maintaining and strengthening our existing members to ensure the conference’s continued success and long-term viability.”
              I don't think you can really expect them to be more specific than they were without damaging members by publicly stating a lack of confidence in their ability to stay afloat. Perpetuating the idea that certain programs are on the ropes (in an official statement from the league, no less) makes it that much harder for them to recruit, garner support, and rebuild themselves.

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              • #97
                Re: Save Uah Hockey!

                Originally posted by kdilks View Post
                I don't think you can really expect them to be more specific than they were without damaging members by publicly stating a lack of confidence in their ability to stay afloat. Perpetuating the idea that certain programs are on the ropes (in an official statement from the league, no less) makes it that much harder for them to recruit, garner support, and rebuild themselves.
                To be honest, I think it is a load of ****. It honestly doesn't make a difference. In the end the CCHA was out to prove a point that they weren't going dictated to by the WCHA. It's about sending a message. The reason they gave for not accepting UAH were weak at beat and a five year old could shoot holes in it.
                Last edited by Goon; 08-15-2009, 01:03 AM.
                Contributing Editor and College Hockey Writer at Inside Hockey
                Eric's Twitter
                The Sin Bin The Sports Daily

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                • #98
                  Re: Save Uah Hockey!

                  Originally posted by vizoroo View Post
                  But, why can't there be Division II Hockey? Cooperalls has some valid thoughts.
                  Division I hockey is why there can't be successful Division II hockey. If the NCAA wanted D-II to be successful, they'd have to either remove the grandfathering exemption for D-II schools playing up to D-I, or increase the fees until only the largest D-II schools would bother playing up. Either way, there's only 58 D-I teams and, what, six D-II teams? Not a large pool.
                  Augsburg College: Wait, there's another D-3 school whose name starts with "A"?

                  Originally posted by The Darkness:
                  I don't see you asking Beer Pong Horn if he practices a religion from the beer continent.


                  Originally posted by bigblue_dl:
                  Wow. Tech fans are such a-holes. I think I saw Beer Pong Horn kick a blind puppy once.


                  Boosh Factor (6-27-12): Summer Vacation

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                  • #99
                    Re: Save Uah Hockey!

                    Originally posted by Goon View Post
                    To be honest, I think it is a load of ****. It honestly doesn't make a difference. In the end the CCHA was out to prove a point that they weren't going dictated to by the WCHA. It's about sending a message. The reason they gave for not accepting UAH were weak at beat and a five year old could shoot holes in it.
                    That's just pure speculation on your part. Also, the five year olds shooting holes into the reasons for not accepting UAH include statements like "Michigan will sell out for anybody!" (see Dave Starman's article on the USCHO front page), which I pretty definitively showed is not the case. It's easy to sit back and make somewhat plausible, baseless claims about the CCHA's stated reasons and what effect you think adding UAH would have, and I personally don't think a lot of counter-arguments people have made are substantiated enough to sway school administrators.

                    Another example is with the "long bus trip" issue, which everybody seems to brush away pretty quickly. Just because schools have been traveling to UNO doesn't necessarily mean they'd want to continue making a similar trip, if given the option. Just because students aren't failing classes because of long weekend trips doesn't necessarily mean they haven't complained about the strain extra travel takes on them. Everybody seems content to ignore these possibilities, and just act like the CCHA ****ed on a picture-perfect match.

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                    • Re: Save Uah Hockey!

                      Originally posted by kdilks View Post
                      That's just pure speculation on your part. Also, the five year olds shooting holes into the reasons for not accepting UAH include statements like "Michigan will sell out for anybody!" (see Dave Starman's article on the USCHO front page), which I pretty definitively showed is not the case. It's easy to sit back and make somewhat plausible, baseless claims about the CCHA's stated reasons and what effect you think adding UAH would have, and I personally don't think a lot of counter-arguments people have made are substantiated enough to sway school administrators.

                      Another example is with the "long bus trip" issue, which everybody seems to brush away pretty quickly. Just because schools have been traveling to UNO doesn't necessarily mean they'd want to continue making a similar trip, if given the option. Just because students aren't failing classes because of long weekend trips doesn't necessarily mean they haven't complained about the strain extra travel takes on them. Everybody seems content to ignore these possibilities, and just act like the CCHA ****ed on a picture-perfect match.
                      Speculation, this is a message board, almost 85% of the stuff written here is such, so your point is? The fact remains is that the CCHA exception for Michigan, Miami (recently), MSU (except last year), Norte Dame (recently) the CCHA is a league stuffed full of teams (that some might call cup cakes) that for no better words SUCK and the reason we have seen for UAH being denied are weak at best and come off as being snobby and pompous when frankly they honestly don’t have the right to be. Come on. What have the weak sisters of the CCHA done in the last 15 years? Last season UAH drew better in attendance than some of the current members of the CCHA with teams from the CHA. I am still smelling bull ****.

                      Michigan 19 6714 6,637 101.2
                      Michigan State 15 5473 6,470 84.6
                      Ohio State 20 4181 17,500 23.9
                      Northern Michigan 19 2932 3,754 78.1
                      Alaska 20 2708 4,324 62.6
                      Notre Dame 18 2703 2,667 101.3
                      UAH 10 2688 7,000 38.4
                      Miami 19 2491 3,200 77.8
                      Lake Superior 18 2257 3,373 66.9
                      Western Michigan 21 2112 3,667 57.6
                      Bowling Green 20 2044 5,000 40.9
                      Ferris State 18 1424 2,493 57.1
                      [from where I pulled it out of]
                      Last edited by Goon; 08-15-2009, 01:40 PM. Reason: left something out.
                      Contributing Editor and College Hockey Writer at Inside Hockey
                      Eric's Twitter
                      The Sin Bin The Sports Daily

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                      • Re: Save Uah Hockey!

                        Originally posted by Goon View Post
                        Speculation, this is a message board, almost 85% of the stuff written here is such, so your point is? The fact remains is that the CCHA exception for Michigan, Miami (recently), MSU (except last year), Norte Dame (recently) the CCHA is a league stuffed full of teams (that some might call cup cakes) that for no better words SUCK and the reason we have seen for UAH being denied are weak at best and come off as being snobby and pompous when frankly they honestly don’t have the right to be. Come on. What have the weak sisters of the CCHA done in the last 15 years? Last season UAH drew better in attendance than some of the current members of the CCHA with teams from the CHA. I am still smelling bull ****.

                        Michigan 19 6714 6,637 101.2
                        Michigan State 15 5473 6,470 84.6
                        Ohio State 20 4181 17,500 23.9
                        Northern Michigan 19 2932 3,754 78.1
                        Alaska 20 2708 4,324 62.6
                        Notre Dame 18 2703 2,667 101.3
                        UAH 10 2688 7,000 38.4
                        Miami 19 2491 3,200 77.8
                        Lake Superior 18 2257 3,373 66.9
                        Western Michigan 21 2112 3,667 57.6
                        Bowling Green 20 2044 5,000 40.9
                        Ferris State 18 1424 2,493 57.1
                        [from where I pulled it out of]
                        So, by your logic, the league is stuffed full of teams that suck, little sisters of the poor, et. al. All the more reason that UAH should join, right?

                        It's because:

                        1. If they suck as bad, then what's the difference if they add another suck team (that the WCHA will snicker about) that will also drown down the PWR and SoS of the league. It can not be any worse than it is;

                        or

                        2. If they don't suck as bad and are at least as competitive as UNO, then they won't help your league's PWR much, but at least you gave an orphan program a home that actually might raise the league's average attendance;

                        or

                        3. If they don't suck at all, and actually do pretty well and fill their arena, it's not on the merits of the program but more on the merits of the league that they are joining with all of the suck teams. They'll still suck even if they make an odd NCAA appearance and not be as good as teams in the WCHA, but that's your problem;

                        I get it. Nothing like the arrogance of the WCHA to tell our league how snobby they are and judge what is in their best interests.
                        Last edited by streaker; 08-15-2009, 02:03 PM.

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                        • Re: Save Uah Hockey!

                          I don't buy the argument about the long bus rides, etc. The trip to UNO is pretty much the same to UAH. The argument is that with UNO gone, it cuts down on big travel, with the exception of Alaska. The athletes may be passing their classes, but they were strained with the big travel. Well no sh*t sherlock. Travel is not glamorous or fun most of the time. But these athletes knew that when they signed up to play hockey at this level. If they are good students, they will be alright. They will learn how to manage their time and do their best on the ice and in the classroom. That's a good life lesson they are learning. If they struggle with managing time, then I'm am sure these schools have resources to help them out. It may be harder for them, but again, it's a good life lesson to learn about managing time and priorities.
                          "Great moments are born from great opportunities." -- Herb Brooks

                          Ohio State Women's Club Hockey

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                          • Re: Save Uah Hockey!

                            Originally posted by streaker View Post
                            So, by your logic, the league is stuffed full of teams that suck, little sisters of the poor, et. al. All the more reason that UAH should join, right?
                            I am saying they shouldn't be looking down their noses at UAH.
                            Contributing Editor and College Hockey Writer at Inside Hockey
                            Eric's Twitter
                            The Sin Bin The Sports Daily

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                            • Re: Save Uah Hockey!

                              Originally posted by kdilks View Post
                              I don't think you can really expect them to be more specific than they were without damaging members by publicly stating a lack of confidence in their ability to stay afloat. Perpetuating the idea that certain programs are on the ropes (in an official statement from the league, no less) makes it that much harder for them to recruit, garner support, and rebuild themselves.
                              Thanks.

                              You basically showed the CCHA is in awful shape and are having a hard time promoting hockey.
                              Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
                              dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
                              wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

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                              • Re: Save Uah Hockey!

                                Originally posted by Goon View Post
                                Speculation, this is a message board, almost 85% of the stuff written here is such, so your point is?
                                I guess my point is the other 15% of stuff written on here with evidence and analysis to back it up is a little more convincing than speculation from people who seem to have nothing better to do than trash-talk the CCHA so they can feel better about themselves.

                                Great, so UAH had higher average attendance than some teams last year. They also would have had one of the lowest attendance percentages in the league. It might not be a major thing, but it does generally look bad when you're playing in a barn that's less than half full (I count OSU as an exception because they're clearly playing in a facility with capacity beyond their means, and they do curtain off the upper bowls). Even the schools in the CCHA with low attendance can manage to fill up and have a good environment for the "big" games, and have something to show recruits. I don't know if Huntsville is capable of that (partially doubt, but more not taking the time to check their individual game attendances over the past few years).

                                Also, does that mean they'd maintain that attendance level as a regular member of the CCHA? I can think of a few reasons why people might think that's not the case. First of all, they only had 10 home games last year (over 5 weekends). It's not at all obvious that this would scale to a full conference schedule. Last year, if you went to handful of UAH games, you went to a significant percentage of the games. If you spread out these people that only go to a handful of games over a larger number of home games, average attendance drops. Of course, more people might come to games with more opportunities to attend the games, but how much those balance each other out is a judgment call. Also, UAH was playing in a league where they were (generally) competitive, and vying for a bid to the national tournament. Would there be the same level of interest if they're suddenly a league doormat, and the best they can reasonably hope for is home ice in the first round before getting crushed by Michigan/Michigan State/Notre Dame/Miami?

                                I admit that most of that is more or less speculation, but it's the kind of speculation that league administrators may have done, and has some reasoning behind it. Personally, I think it would be far more productive to try and legitimately understand what type of thinking the CCHA may have used and honestly address those points, rather than antagonizing the CCHA and quickly dismissing their reasoning because everybody's so optimistic and hopeful that everything would work out.

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