Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

[WiscDC]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

If you get the chance, you could imply that there are Crease Creatures who would be willing to "help" Matthews with his homework next year, should he be on campus.

Probably not getting an offer like that anywhere else.

Aaannnd we get slapped with a recruiting violation. I'm more concerned with him choosing college hockey over the CHL, anyway.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Aaannnd we get slapped with a recruiting violation. I'm more concerned with him choosing college hockey over the CHL, anyway.

What violation? I said imply! Man, you'd never make it at Miami(FL) U.

[Gandalf the Red]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

What violation? I said imply! Man, you'd never make it at Miami(FL) U.

Florida State everything goes besides murder.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

FREE CRAB LEGS FOR ALL!!!!

(and "no" means "probably")

[WiscDC]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

I just remembered that Brendan Woods was a part of this year's senior class.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

I just remembered that Brendan Woods was a part of this year's senior class.

In an effort to understand a little about how we ended up with 17 underclassmen skaters, I did a little chart tracking the Badger class sizes, the departures, Red shirts, and a few notes about goalies. The early departures are color coded to the class they left, the redshirts the classes they are going in to. Please feel free to point out any inaccuracies. I'll point out a few things myself about what I think about it all and some background on a few players in another post when I get a few minutes. It probably takes a little staring to get something out of it.

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Piggybacking on Wisko, here is the chart on just forwards that I had in a recent article.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Piggybacking on Wisko, here is the chart on just forwards that I had in a recent article.

I read that while I was compiling this, and it's good info. Because I couldn't quite get it all straight in my head I decided to go with all the skaters for a little broader picture.

A couple of comments on events leading to where we are:

1) Patrick Daly "Daly, a 6-0 and 180-pound defenseman, from Benilde-St. Margaret's High School. The Victoria, Minn., native was a finalist for the 2011 Minnesota Mr. Hockey award following his 40-point and plus-52 season that included 27 games on the blue line. A team co-captain as a senior, the left-handed shot posted 12 points in 10 games during an injury-shortened junior campaign. An all-conference selection as a sophomore in 2008-09, he has also skated two seasons in the Upper Midwest High School Elite League."

Daly, a NJ Devils Draft pick, was an elite skater and elite student with good size who projected very well for the Badgers. After his freshman year, he decided to transfer to St. Thomas, reportedly to focus more on academics and to play hockey there. He hasn't played college hockey since leaving the Badgers. (Would be a Senior)

2) Tyler Lapic - Tyler was listed as a Top 10 Minnesota High School League Player and the all time New Prague HS scoring record holder. He left after his Freshman year to join his brother at Gustavus Adolphus where he has been successful. At 6'2", 200#, he's a hard-nosed physical presence, and leader for the Gusties that can still put the puck in the net. (Would be a Senior)

3.) Jason Clark, a 3rd round Islanders pick stuck behind a big group of forwards surprised by signing a pro contract in late August before his Jr. year. While he would have been a senior last year, his late signing put Spencer Bell, a good kid who had already enrolled at UW after hanging up his skates onto the roster. After Bell was recruited over, it obviously shifted yet another roster spot down to the underclassman level this year. Clark's bounced back and forth between the AHL and ECHL since leaving. (Bell's spot would be a Junior)

4.) Jr. Mitch Thompson departs rather than be elevated, forcing Adam Miller into what is now the Jr Class, rather than that spot being in the So class. This is of lesser import really, just an observation and probably less of an effect than bringing in Bennett as a transfer, putting both top goalies in the same (now Sr.) class. But it's how 3 of 9 upperclassmen are all goalies.

5.) As noted by DC, Brendan Woods a 5th round pick by Carolina, and a (mostly) projected 4 year player, surprises by departing to the AHL after his So. season, pushing yet another spot to the lower classes and depriving Bucky of another strong Senior this year.

6.) There is always somebody saying that departures should be "planned for". Expected departures are planned for but it doesn't change the fact that that you are replacing an elite player that understands your system with an inexperienced player you have to start over with. Unexpected departures, especially Freshman and Sophomores, tend to lead you to either accelerating players, or bringing in players that you might not normally out of need, and again those departures are a lost investment.

6.) Kerdilles leaving marks 5 straight years of Sophomores departing to the pros. A huge difference from Junior departures IMO.

7.) Of the 28 Departures shown, note that 22 of them come from the classes that are Juniors and Seniors this year, which has shifted those roster spots downward.

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

7.) Of the 28 Departures shown, note that 22 of them come from the classes that are Juniors and Seniors this year, which has shifted those roster spots downward.

That is just insane. How can we blame Eaves for this?

I also agree on accelerated players, it fills a spot, but it doesn't produce an impactful Fr. player. Maybe Hughes can have a huge 2nd half and break the trend.

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

I read that while I was compiling this, and it's good info. Because I couldn't quite get it all straight in my head I decided to go with all the skaters for a little broader picture.

A couple of comments on events leading to where we are:

1) Patrick Daly "Daly, a 6-0 and 180-pound defenseman, from Benilde-St. Margaret's High School. The Victoria, Minn., native was a finalist for the 2011 Minnesota Mr. Hockey award following his 40-point and plus-52 season that included 27 games on the blue line. A team co-captain as a senior, the left-handed shot posted 12 points in 10 games during an injury-shortened junior campaign. An all-conference selection as a sophomore in 2008-09, he has also skated two seasons in the Upper Midwest High School Elite League."

Daly, a NJ Devils Draft pick, was an elite skater and elite student with good size who projected very well for the Badgers. After his freshman year, he decided to transfer to St. Thomas, reportedly to focus more on academics and to play hockey there. He hasn't played college hockey since leaving the Badgers. (Would be a Senior)

2) Tyler Lapic - Tyler was listed as a Top 10 Minnesota High School League Player and the all time New Prague HS scoring record holder. He left after his Freshman year to join his brother at Gustavus Adolphus where he has been successful. At 6'2", 200#, he's a hard-nosed physical presence, and leader for the Gusties that can still put the puck in the net. (Would be a Senior)

3.) Jason Clark, a 3rd round Islanders pick stuck behind a big group of forwards surprised by signing a pro contract in late August before his Jr. year. While he would have been a senior last year, his late signing put Spencer Bell, a good kid who had already enrolled at UW after hanging up his skates onto the roster. After Bell was recruited over, it obviously shifted yet another roster spot down to the underclassman level this year. Clark's bounced back and forth between the AHL and ECHL since leaving. (Bell's spot would be a Junior)

4.) Jr. Mitch Thompson departs rather than be elevated, forcing Adam Miller into what is now the Jr Class, rather than that spot being in the So class. This is of lesser import really, just an observation and probably less of an effect than bringing in Bennett as a transfer, putting both top goalies in the same (now Sr.) class. But it's how 3 of 9 upperclassmen are all goalies.

5.) As noted by DC, Brendan Woods a 5th round pick by Carolina, and a (mostly) projected 4 year player, surprises by departing to the AHL after his So. season, pushing yet another spot to the lower classes and depriving Bucky of another strong Senior this year.

6.) There is always somebody saying that departures should be "planned for". Expected departures are planned for but it doesn't change the fact that that you are replacing an elite player that understands your system with an inexperienced player you have to start over with. Unexpected departures, especially Freshman and Sophomores, tend to lead you to either accelerating players, or bringing in players that you might not normally out of need, and again those departures are a lost investment.

6.) Kerdilles leaving marks 5 straight years of Sophomores departing to the pros. A huge difference from Junior departures IMO.

7.) Of the 28 Departures shown, note that 22 of them come from the classes that are Juniors and Seniors this year, which has shifted those roster spots downward.

Thanks for doing all the work on this.

A few observations...on your last point....statistically wouldn't the largest quantity of departures occur from the largest class? If a certain percentage of kids are always falling though the cracks for whatever reasons....pros, academics, girlfriend misunderstandings (Thurber), ect...having 22 would have been upperclassmen (plus the 2 handfuls we still actually have this year) would have been an unmanageable quantity on a roster anyways. To me the issue isn't that guys leave....they always have and always will (maybe even more in a society that has evolved into more instant gratification then prior generations)...it's how that has been managed which clearly has not been particularly well.

Kerdelies and his ilk (guys taken in the top 2 rounds of the NHL draft) rarely see a third year on a college campus). Guys like him that are a point a game type are not staying in college....they just don't unless you can sell a stacked team that is a title favorite which this Badger team isn't even remotely close to. You may get a first/2nd round drafted Dman to stick around 3 years, but rarely a forward. For every 1st/2nd round forward that sees a third year of college, I bet there are 5 or 6 if not more that leave. Those guys need a competitive challenge playing in the AHL, feel the pressure of their draft status that they should be moving on as their draft class peers often are, and also feel a pull from their draft rights holder not wanting to have a kid Schultz/Wheeler/Hayes them where they can use the 4 years out of high school loophole to become free agents and potentially lose a high draft pick for nothing more then a compensatory pick 30 picks lower then the original one you used.

For me, what is becoming telling when it comes to Eaves is that kids that should be predisposed to UW are bailing or never coming. Ford and (probably....unless he is the exception to a kid decommiting and actually still picking who he decommitted from in the end) Boesser being the most recent two. Guys like Reilly Smith and Zach Stepan when they have had relatives go and have a great deal of success at UW should not be ending up at other schools....they just shouldn't.

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

That is just insane. How can we blame Eaves for this?

Because the top programs get their freshman to perform right away... Not just when they are juniors and seniors.

Plus other teams have "unexpected" departures and they don't seem to be so affected by it. At least they don't use it as a constant excuse.

[UWisco]

Because the top programs get their freshman to perform right away... Not just when they are juniors and seniors.

Plus other teams have "unexpected" departures and they don't seem to be so affected by it. At least they don't use it as a constant excuse.

Wisconsin is the hardest hit by early departures of any team.

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Wisconsin is the hardest hit by early departures of any team.

Why? - maybe the coaching staff should look in the mirror.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

For every 1st/2nd round forward that sees a third year of college, I bet there are 5 or 6 if not more that leave.

You make several points which I'd like to get to as time permits, for now I'll just offer this about this point. Here are the 1st and 2nd round gofer picks since '06 and how long they stayed in school: (not in order)

Brady Skjei (1st) in 3rd year
Aaron Ness (2nd) 3yrs
Nico Sacchetti (2nd) 4Yrs.
Nick Leddy (1st) 1yr
Zach Budish (2nd) 4Yrs
Jordan Schroeder (1st) 2 yr
Nick Bjugstad (1st) 3 yrs
Mark Alt (2nd) 3yrs
Justin Holl (2nd) 4 yrs
Patrick White (1st) 4yrs
Jim O'Brien (1st) 1 yr
Mike Hoeffel (2nd)4 yrs
Erik Johnson (1st) 1 yr
Phil Kessel (1st) 1 yr
Kyle Okposo (1st)2 yrs
David Fischer (1st)4 yrs

As you can see, 10/16 stayed at least 3, and 5 of those stayed 4 years.

Kessel, Johnson, Obrien all played 1yr. (which coincidentally or not, preceded a 3 yr downturn for the goofs.) Without commenting whether Kerdiles should have stayed or gone, he's very good, but not necessarily Kessel/ Erik Johnson good at this point.

[Bonin21]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

We lost three to the NHL plus Budish and Alt before last year. Seems like you just need to reload better.