Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

[mnstate0fhockey]

Believe it or not, I wouldn't be surprised if Florida produces more D-1 level talent in the next 10 years than the state of Wisconsin does. Maybe a lot more. Hockey is really growing here, with a huge number of Canadians, Europeans, and former Coasties pushing growth, not to mention the high number of current and former NHL'ers (and their $$) that make their homes here.

It's an interesting topic, and your point isn't ridiculous, that's for sure. When all is said and done though, I don't think we'll see the number of players from Florida surpass the number of players from Wisconsin any time soon.

While both state's have seen the number of players they have produced grow (Florida from 2 players to 17 players and Wisconsin from 27 players to 39 players in the last 10 years), I think that the potential for future growth in Wisconsin is much larger.

Sure, Florida's population is much larger, but the cost to play is much greater. The only option that kids have to play at a remotely high level in Florida is Tier 1. That is spendy, especially in places like Florida where necessary travel is extensive. The infrastructure isn't there for big growth in cheaper options, so I doubt any cheaper, competitive options develop there any time soon.

While I think it is great to see the growth of hockey in non-traditinal markets, I think people often forget the room for growth was extensive and the gains are going to be diminishing because of costs. In my opinion Wisconsin is a market that is just beginning to really tap into the potential that is there. Illinois as well.

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Sounds like Wisconsin should have Wittchow and Rockwood available this weekend. Very, very important guys to get back in the lineup.

[WiscDC]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Sounds like Wisconsin should have Wittchow and Rockwood available this weekend. Very, very important guys to get back in the lineup.

Very, very good to hear.

[oldtyme25]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Believe it or not, I wouldn't be surprised if Florida produces more D-1 level talent in the next 10 years than the state of Wisconsin does. Maybe a lot more. Hockey is really growing here, with a huge number of Canadians, Europeans, and former Coasties pushing growth, not to mention the high number of current and former NHL'ers (and their $$) that make their homes here.

And would we have as much success landing the high end talent as we are having in the state of Wisconsin?

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Sounds like Wisconsin should have Wittchow and Rockwood available this weekend. Very, very important guys to get back in the lineup.

Excellent. With nobody at the World Jr's and the addition of Bunz, WI will be at full strength to start off the year. I'd like to learn more about Rockwood's situation, I think there's a great 5th Q article waiting to be written.

[Biddco]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

I found this by accident a couple weeks ago...just wanted to say it's brilliant.


I'll be in Madison this weekend watching Tech. I haven't been there since 2012 and I haven't seen a loss. This might continue!

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

I found this by accident a couple weeks ago...just wanted to say it's brilliant.


I'll be in Madison this weekend watching Tech. I haven't been there since 2012 and I haven't seen a loss. This might continue!

Thanks, I do kind of feel like I




I hope it doesn't continue, but to this point you've definitely beaten the odds. Tech stands at 17-60-6 all time in Madison.

[UCBadger]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

FYI. Head hockey coach of D-III University of Southern Maine, in his 28th year, has been forced to "retire" after a 1-9 start this year.

[Biddco]

Thanks, I do kind of feel like I




I hope it doesn't continue, but to this point you've definitely beaten the odds. Tech stands at 17-60-6 all time in Madison.

You did!

While I've never seen a loss I've only been at the KC for one series. UMD tied and won. So it's a really small sample size .

[UWisco]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Ustaski looks to be a healthy scratch tonight vs Tech per Baggot. Unless he has an injury I am unaware of.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

It's an interesting topic, and your point isn't ridiculous, that's for sure. When all is said and done though, I don't think we'll see the number of players from Florida surpass the number of players from Wisconsin any time soon.

While both state's have seen the number of players they have produced grow (Florida from 2 players to 17 players and Wisconsin from 27 players to 39 players in the last 10 years), I think that the potential for future growth in Wisconsin is much larger.

Sure, Florida's population is much larger, but the cost to play is much greater. The only option that kids have to play at a remotely high level in Florida is Tier 1. That is spendy, especially in places like Florida where necessary travel is extensive. The infrastructure isn't there for big growth in cheaper options, so I doubt any cheaper, competitive options develop there any time soon.

While I think it is great to see the growth of hockey in non-traditinal markets, I think people often forget the room for growth was extensive and the gains are going to be diminishing because of costs. In my opinion Wisconsin is a market that is just beginning to really tap into the potential that is there. Illinois as well.

It's not a forgone conclusion by any means, and it may not be realistic at all. But we're only talking about developing a few more kids in total each year. Regardless, here's what I do see in FL:

Overall growth in USA Hockey participants is up just under 50% over the last decade or so in Florida to around 12k. This growth comes despite Florida being one of, if not the, hardest hit states by the recession. Now that the recession is easing the economy is heating up, I'd personally expect growth to continue at a greater pace. (By comparison Wisconsin has been steady or down slightly over the same time period at around 17.5k participants.)

While cost is a huge issue in hockey growth, it's really not significantly more expensive for U-16's to play here than it is anywhere else. Plus Florida has over 1.3 million households above six figure annual incomes, and the top 1% have an average annual income above $8.5 million! The capital available in Florida despite the recession is really mind-boggling.

Agree that the high end infrastructure is not here yet and most top players head north to Canada, or prep schools, or elite teams elsewhere. But with two NHL teams (and 3 minor teams) pouring money and/or effort into youth development, the quality opportunities for U-16's is improving rapidly, and it should logically follow that Junior level programs will also improve in player development. If somehow the Lightning could snag another cup, things could explode much the way it has in Illinois. (But with 8 million more in population to draw from than Illinois)

Florida does have some great youth coaching. You can hardly go to a rink in Florida without tripping over former NHL'ers coaching kids. The small nearby rink I use has a scary Sunday league that is just filthy with former pros (First thing they tell you when you ask is that you DO NOT want to play in that league.) and quite a few are involved in youth programs.

The other thing Florida has that isn't so apparent in other places is a large population of Canadians and New Englander's that just culturally want to have and support hockey programs. I'm optimistic about hockey in Wisconsin, but there's a lot of upside possible in Florida as well.

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[Bonin21]

Plus Florida has over 1.3 million households above six figure annual incomes, and the top 1% have an average annual income above $8.5 million! The capital available in Florida despite the recession is really mind-boggling.

Average age of those heads of household? I don't know how many pee-wee aged kids are living at former CEO grandpa's mansion.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

And would we have as much success landing the high end talent as we are having in the state of Wisconsin?

It's legitimate cynicism and this isn't really a response but just some interesting facts of the week:

According to NHL reference, 27 Wisconsin born players have logged time in the NHL. Two in the 1930's. Of the rest, 22 of 25 played NCAA hockey and 17 of 22 played at Wisconsin. (10 played at least one year for Eaves) The other 5 NCAA players were:

Drew Stafford and Craig Ludwig (UND) ; David Steckel (Ohio St.); Kevin Dean (UNH) ; Phil Kessel (MN)

Maybe the Schmaltz brothers, Will Butcher, and Ian Mcoshen (and/or others) will all be that level of player, which will tilt this more. Or maybe some kids like Davison really develop (even like a Joe Piskula type guy) Hard to say. Certainly true that very good college players have gone elsewhere for various reasons.

In an unrelated observation: If it weren't for Kessel, we'd all surely have a much greater hatred for the Schmaltz's, considering how that went down.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Average age of those heads of household? I don't know how many pee-wee aged kids are living at former CEO grandpa's mansion.

I've lived in SWFL for about 5 years and I know what you're getting at but there are exponentially more retirees in RV parks than there are retired CEO's in mansions. Feel free to research, but there is still a very large number of upper middle class to very wealthy families, and certainly more than in Wisconsin and Minnesota combined by a big margin.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Ustaski looks to be a healthy scratch tonight vs Tech per Baggot. Unless he has an injury I am unaware of.

Seems like Utaski has real talent but is terribly inconsistent in how he applies it. Line ups per Baggot:

LaBate-Rockwood-Besse; Zulinick-Hughes-Soleway; Navin-Wagner-McGuire; Cavallini-Paape-Ford

Wittchow-Schulze; Drake-Linhart; Davison-Dougherty


Interesting that Eaves has chosen to put Eddie and K. Schulze back together. Hope Eddie has been on his bike while he's been off, because I have to believe that pair is scheduled for big minutes.