Minnesota Gophers Offseason Thread 2014 - Quick, Reload!

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Gophers Offseason Thread 2014 - Quick, Reload!

It isn't a bad strategy to have some of these guys if you can keep them two or three years. But you pointed out the key factor... if a team can keep them. Most of that relies on the player's mindset. Not the coaching. Lucia happened to recruit too many guys that wanted to step to the next level ASAP. If he had landed more guys at that time that thought like Bjugstad did, nobody would have been complaining. It is high risk, high reward.

I have no problem predicting BC will fall apart in the same fashion as we did... IF a number of their guys have the same mindset we saw on our club during Kessel, EJ, etc era. But we simply don't know if those BC kids have that same mentality.

Once again, I am not predicting anything. I think you are in too argumentative state to realize I was more trying to draw out the people who jumped all over Lucia for those recruits that left early. (Too much arguing with Harley about Rau maybe?) We are on a similar page. Lucia didn't know they were going to be one-and-dones. That is the chance one takes recruiting those players. But a lot of the critics on here and GPL said "one shouldn't go for the blue-chippers because they will leave. Instead, follow BC's lead. They are ahead of MN in recruiting strategy by getting small guys that the NHL will leave alone longer." Those critics had the hypothesis that Lucia messed up recruiting blue-chippers because they won't stay long enough. So I am pointing out to those critics that BC is now on the path that they criticized MN for. My request wasn't for someone to make a conditional prediction based on IF the players stay or not. If their hypothesis is correct, they should step up and say BC will fall apart because first rounders WILL leave and create imbalance.

I, on the other hand, believe like you that you have to take chances on these special players when they come along. Almost no one saw a Leddy leaving after a year, and a lot expected Vanek to leave after his freshman year. (Where would the U had been if they had passed on Vanek because they figured he wouldn't stay past his first year?) Some seemed to think Skjei would be gone by now too, if not after 1 year. Part of the problem with the hypothesis of avoiding high picks is it is based on a time when some of the other picks didn't pan out as well as expected and there were other issues going on. So I agree that MN should take the guys they can get if they fit. And it will be interesting to see how it works for BC (and maybe BU with a couple potential one-and-dones they might have coming in).

Then to really get the juices flowing, Tuch, being drafted by the Wild, who have loads of young talent, Harley would probably argue is likely to last more than a year at BC because of the competition ahead of him......so there is that to speculate on. And what is Milano's situation?

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Gophers Offseason Thread 2014 - Quick, Reload!

How many first rounders and draft picks do the Gophers need that they don't already have?

7.5

BC isn't the only NCAA team the Gophers have to compete with, the Gophers look like they are going to be stacked next season and their current commitments beyond this season can compete with any other in the country.

Yes they are. We need the next NC, and the one after that, and the one after that.

I am happy about next year's team, just want complete and total domination for years to come!

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Gophers Offseason Thread 2014 - Quick, Reload!

I honestly think there has been some serious over-analyzing and nit-picking of the recruitment COMMENTS lately.

Fixed.

All I'm sayin' is, with the class MN has lined up for this year, especially if Rau is beat out for a spot by Grimaldi, and returns, they should have an awesome team. With that in mind, I would like to think that the preseason Scooby glass rating would go from like 17% all the way to 19% if Bredstedt were a high draft pick on top of all this.

[Slap Shot]

Re: Minnesota Gophers Offseason Thread 2014 - Quick, Reload!

Fair enough, Koho.

[Bonin21]

Re: Minnesota Gophers Offseason Thread 2014 - Quick, Reload!

I honestly think there has been some serious over-analyzing and nit-picking of the recruitment lately.

Feel like I saw my screen name in here earlier. Any negative comments I make about recruits are because I'm a worrier, like when I saw Ambroz and Ramsey fall off the charts in their draft years. I was worried about Fasching, and look how that turned out. I mentioned it somewhere but I'm not scared to admit I was wrong about a recruit after they get the chance to prove themselves. This is how I approach the non-MN kids. I'm willing to be won over.

I'm one of the few people left that likes the all-MN idea. All-MN in this sense can mean vast majority Minnesotan. I'm 100% cool with elite kids from wherever committing. Only an idiot would complain because Jonathan Toews isn't from MN. I don't think we've ever won a title with more than three non-Minnesotans. Once we do, I'll be totally cool with 6-7 non-MN kids. Any season without a national title is a failure.

I know I'll get ****, but I think people are allowed to disagree on things. We just need to win a title so we can rub it in the faces of two sets of annoying fans and not have to talk about this stuff.

[Hammy]

Re: Minnesota Gophers Offseason Thread 2014 - Quick, Reload!

We've never won a title with more than a few non-MN because we generally haven't had to go about business that way. Especially when it was only the Gophers and UMD playing D1 in the state. It's not because we can't win that way.

If anything, the scope has changed more than ever. The doors need to be opened more. Particularly when we have a weaker birth year in the state.

EDIT - As far as Ramsey goes, I'm not sure he really fell off the charts per se. One guy vastly overrated him coming into the season (I believe it was Craig Button that had him in the top 30 early on... which made me wonder if the guy was smoking crack when he put that list together). Pretty much everybody else (especially those that are in the MN area) could see that Ramsey was going to be an effort guy (a la Serratore). He never belonged among the top rated draft prospects in the first place. Frankly, he got drafted where he really should have been ranked all along.

[Hammy]

Re: Minnesota Gophers Offseason Thread 2014 - Quick, Reload!

All I have said is it gives one more confidence in a recruit coming in when the NHL also sees him as a viable player

How did that work out with Patrick White and David Fischer? (And numerous examples of other players at other schools over the years).

2. While I don't insist on all Minnesotans, I would prefer to see a Minnesotan play in a spot, unless there isn't a player who can do what the non-Minnesotan can. In other words, I DO want most players to be from MN, and only get the occasional phenom or guy who you just can't find from elsewhere.

Which is the same attitude the coaches have. So when they go elsewhere, I tend to believe they don't see equal to better options locally. Wouldn't you say?

[mnstate0fhockey]

The development camp is about making impressions, etc. But you really don't beat out players for roles until everybody steps on the ice with the regular NHLers in training camp... then it becomes sink or swim for jobs.

Agreed.

[mnstate0fhockey]

There are going to be misses, but let them miss first. There will also be surprises. Every team needs 3rd and 4th liners btw, and they don't have to be from MN. I don't give a rip where they come from (to a point) and I'm as old school as it comes regarding Gophers hockey.

How many first rounders and draft picks do the Gophers need that they don't already have? BC isn't the only NCAA team the Gophers have to compete with, the Gophers look like they are going to be stacked next season and their current commitments beyond this season can compete with any other in the country.

I honestly think there has been some serious over-analyzing and nit-picking of the recruitment lately. If a commitment can't be viewed as the next Thomas Vanek it doesn't automatically mean they're the next Rico Pagel.

Wasn't long ago (2006 I believe) that the Gophers had for recruits drafted in the first round of the NHL draft. Didn't get us very far. I've learned to not put too much stock in where players get drafted. The skillset you need to succeed in college hockey doesn't have to translate to the NHL.

[mnstate0fhockey]

Feel like I saw my screen name in here earlier. Any negative comments I make about recruits are because I'm a worrier, like when I saw Ambroz and Ramsey fall off the charts in their draft years. I was worried about Fasching, and look how that turned out. I mentioned it somewhere but I'm not scared to admit I was wrong about a recruit after they get the chance to prove themselves. This is how I approach the non-MN kids. I'm willing to be won over.

I'm one of the few people left that likes the all-MN idea. All-MN in this sense can mean vast majority Minnesotan. I'm 100% cool with elite kids from wherever committing. Only an idiot would complain because Jonathan Toews isn't from MN. I don't think we've ever won a title with more than three non-Minnesotans. Once we do, I'll be totally cool with 6-7 non-MN kids. Any season without a national title is a failure.

I know I'll get ****, but I think people are allowed to disagree on things. We just need to win a title so we can rub it in the faces of two sets of annoying fans and not have to talk about this stuff.

We've won two titles with only Minnesotans.

That was 35-40 years ago though, and much has changed since then.

[mnstate0fhockey]

Re: Minnesota Gophers Offseason Thread 2014 - Quick, Reload!

Good discussions here.

[Hammy]

Re: Minnesota Gophers Offseason Thread 2014 - Quick, Reload!

Once again, I am not predicting anything. I think you are in too argumentative state to realize I was more trying to draw out the people who jumped all over Lucia for those recruits that left early.

I wasn't really arguing on that point. Sorry if it came across that way. I was simply pointing out that I believe that it comes down to player attitude and that isn't always easy to predict (as you pointed out with Leddy and Vanek examples). If BC has a number of the same situations like we had, I have little doubt they will suffer similarly.

I think most of the comments I have seen (from myself included) haven't been advocating to completely avoid recruiting those high pick types. It was more about finding a balance between high pick types and guys that are likely to be productive offensive players over the course of 4 years (which usually means grabbing very skilled guys that don't have the prototypical NHL frame). If you go too heavy with the high end NHL prospect types and they leave after a season or two... well, we see how it wrecks the continuity of building a consistent title threat. Best to find a mix of guys (which is clearly what they have decided to do when you look at recent incoming classes and what is in the pipeline).

I will say that I might be more willing to accept recruiting more NHL prospect types on defense. Mainly because I think how well you recruit defensively is what separates the elite programs from the rest. At least "elite" from a consistency standpoint.

[Bonin21]

I will say that I might be more willing to accept recruiting more NHL prospect types on defense. Mainly because I think how well you recruit defensively is what separates the elite programs from the rest.

Like when every defenseman on your roster is a draft pick? Has that ever happened before?

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Gophers Offseason Thread 2014 - Quick, Reload!

How did that work out with Patrick White and David Fischer? (And numerous examples of other players at other schools over the years).

You are correct. Lucia and staff were very high on these players and expected a lot more out of them. So they are perfect examples of why the UM staff is always better at picking college players than NHLers. (er, wait...)

Patrick White looked phenomenal in 3 games his Junior year at State. But watching him more after that made me question if he had the speed and ability to be successful in college, much less make the NHL. I had the luxury of seeing him play often. But college coaches can only watch so many games so have to base their decision on an often less than optimal number of games. This is especially true for Europeans.

No one is immune to mistakes in drafting and recruiting. But to say that an undrafted player should have no less expectation placed on them than one picked in a lower round seems strange to me. NHL draft status isn't the answer. But it is one more data point on which to judge a player you know little about. That is all I am saying! If someone looks at the stats and sees no better performance out of first and second-rounders compared to undrafted players in college, I'll drop it. But I don't think you'll see that relationship. And that stat matters more than a list of outliers. I wouldn't turn down Milano or Eichel if they said they wanted to come to the U.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Minnesota Gophers Offseason Thread 2014 - Quick, Reload!

Sorry to appear to pile on...but I think people are troubled by this for a different reason.

Most fans believe that the goal of our program is to win and win within scholastic/NCAA guidelines. The staff clearly believes that. The minute you insert an additional and periodically conflicting second goal (to always place Minnesotans on the team in front of other kids), it will automatically hinder our ability to stay focused on the first goal...winning. That's the problem.